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R4M0N
Brazilian Soccer Ownz Joo

join:2000-10-04
Glen Allen, VA

According to some of you

It seems elderly people cease to be responsible for their own choices after a certain age. The company I work for was paying $250/month for sub-par hosting + 45.00 for email + $25 for "additional web space" + 5 for a domain pointer. That's $305 dollars.

I have them paying $40 for much more features now. Was it the fault of the previous hosting company that they were being ripped off? No.

Old people are still over the legal age if I remember correctly. If they are so gullible, remove their freedom to make their own choices or shut up about it.

Old people have kids, where are they to help them make wise choices in regards to things they don't understand?

I know squat about mutual funds (about as much as old people do about technology). Does that mean the ugly investment firm should be vilified if I make a bad choice in investments?
wentlanc
You Can't Fix Dumb..

join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH

Re: According to some of you

The larger issue here is that most companies would rather take your money and not try to steer you toward a better solution.

Even in your case, the provider is NOT going to come to you any say, hey, we offer less expensive solutions now, so come pay less for the same thing or better. Why would they clue you in that you should pay less?

Then again, there are some companies who do exactly that. This is more an issue of corporations being greedy and not doing the morally proper decision of automatically rolling the customers to a better solution that is cheaper.

puritan

R4M0N
Brazilian Soccer Ownz Joo

join:2000-10-04
Glen Allen, VA

1 edit

Re: According to some of you

said by wentlanc:

The larger issue here is that most companies would rather take your money and not try to steer you toward a better solution.

Even in your case, the provider is NOT going to come to you any say, hey, we offer less expensive solutions now, so come pay less for the same thing or better. Why would they clue you in that you should pay less?

Then again, there are some companies who do exactly that. This is more an issue of corporations being greedy and not doing the morally proper decision of automatically rolling the customers to a better solution that is cheaper.

puritan
Oh come on... The old lady in the article is complaining that she likes the rotary better than the new phone she got! It's not a company's resposibility to hand-hold their customer's every decision.

"Automatically" for you means "forced" for me. Had they "automatically" taken her phone away along with the charge, she would certainly create a fuss about it.

Should Car salesmen steer you away from that more expensive sports car because you're a family man and need a bigger vehicle? No! Businesses are not in business to make your decisions for you. They are in business to make a profit.

Fatal Vector

join:2005-11-26

Re: According to some of you



Regardless of if she made the decision or not, the point is that it's 21 YEARS later and Ma Bell has been ripping her off to the tune of $14 THOUSAND dollars for ONE, 1960's rotary phone that cost them MAYBE $50 to make to begin with.

It is exactly this kind of predatory behavior on the part of companies that leave a sour taste in most peoples mouths. Just because they CAN keep charging, doesn't mean the automatically SHOULD. And the "well, they made the decision" defense doesn't cut it.

If you or I as a individual were to do such things, we would be buried under the prison for fraud or some such in short order.

Corporations want the right to suck their customers dry for every penny they can get, while having absolutely NO responsibility to be a respectable corporate citizen, or, to be held accountable for their actions like we are as citizens.

R4M0N
Brazilian Soccer Ownz Joo

join:2000-10-04
Glen Allen, VA

Re: According to some of you

said by Fatal Vector:

Regardless of if she made the decision or not, the point is that it's 21 YEARS later and Ma Bell has been ripping her off to the tune of $14 THOUSAND dollars for ONE, 1960's rotary phone that cost them MAYBE $50 to make to begin with.

It is exactly this kind of predatory behavior on the part of companies that leave a sour taste in most peoples mouths. Just because they CAN keep charging, doesn't mean the automatically SHOULD. And the "well, they made the decision" defense doesn't cut it.

If you or I as a individual were to do such things, we would be buried under the prison for fraud or some such in short order.

Corporations want the right to suck their customers dry for every penny they can get, while having absolutely NO responsibility to be a respectable corporate citizen, or, to be held accountable for their actions like we are as citizens.
1. Why do we have to disregard her decision making?
2. It was for two phones over the last 14 years.
3. What does the longevity of the charge have to do with the issue?
4. The cost of making a product has no bearing on how much a company should charge for it. Do you really think it costs $30 or even $20 to make a monster cable, then why do they charge $50 for an HDMI cable?
5. It's the customer's responsibility to make sure he or she is paying a competitive price. A cable modem rental is $10 extra from most cable internet providers. For $30 you can buy a cable modem on ebay. Is the cable comany ripping people off by leasing the modem when people can buy one for 3 months worth of rent?

Now do you expect the cable company to tell everyone to go to ebay and buy a modem instead of renting from them? Even if they don't buy one from ebay, circuit city is having a sale right now for a TOP OF THE LINE motorola SB5120 for only $39.99. Should comcast and the other companies tell eveyone to go to Circuit city?

The company did its part and informed the customer that they were free to stop leasing the phone. she freely CHOSE (freedom come with responsibilities too) to keep the lease. Now unless she's deemed unable to make a rational choice, the company did all it was supposed to do.

Fatal Vector

join:2005-11-26

1 edit

Re: According to some of you

"1. Why do we have to disregard her decision making?"

Ummm, because it was made 21 YEARS ago under a ruling that has absolutely NO bearing today and they are just leaving it in place because of the money it brings in? It's not a matter of "disregarding". It is a matter of being a honest and respectable business.

"2. It was for two phones over the last 14 years."

So what? How does that lessen the fact that they are ripping her off? All that means is she paid $7,000 per phone.

"3. What does the longevity of the charge have to do with the issue?"

I refer you back yo #1 above.

"4. The cost of making a product has no bearing on how much a company should charge for it. Do you really think it costs $30 or even $20 to make a monster cable, then why do they charge $50 for an HDMI cable?"

It doesn't? Getting $50 from some dolt for a "monster" cable is not the same thing as ripping off the elderly for year after year for rental on a totally obsolete device.

"5. It's the customer's responsibility to make sure he or she is paying a competitive price. A cable modem rental is $10 extra from most cable internet providers. For $30 you can buy a cable modem on ebay. Is the cable comany ripping people off by leasing the modem when people can buy one for 3 months worth of rent?"

Again, this attempt at comparison does not fit. It's not a matter of a "competitive" price. It's a matter of ripping off the elderly and incompetent for 21 YEARS for rental on a obsolete device originally furnished by a monopoly. Cable modems are not obsolete devices.

And, yes, the cable company IS ripping people off by leasing the modem, just as they have been for cable boxes for decades (which, oddly enough, is why the FCC mandated "Cable ready" tuners and a standard channel scheme back in th 80's to stop this very thing, and is also why the only ones who rent boxes are those that like the "premium" channels).

This is the same reason they are so hot to get you on digital, because now you have NO choice at all. you MUST rent the box.

"Now do you expect the cable company to tell everyone to go to ebay and buy a modem instead of renting from them? Even if they don't buy one from ebay, circuit city is having a sale right now for a TOP OF THE LINE motorola SB5120 for only $39.99. Should comcast and the other companies tell eveyone to go to Circuit city?"

A respectable corporate citizen would do so, yes. You notice the telcos dont rent modems, they give/sell them and advise customers what ones will work on their systems.

"The company did its part and informed the customer that they were free to stop leasing the phone. she freely CHOSE (freedom come with responsibilities too) to keep the lease. Now unless she's deemed unable to make a rational choice, the company did all it was supposed to do."

Yes, they did what they were ORDERED to, 21 YEARS ago. She chose to keep the phone then and the telco was more than happy to keep ripping her off for those 21 years, instead of doing what a reputable firm would have and just quit charging her for it and transferring ownership to her.

It must be nice getting away with collecting $7,000 for a rotary phone. I think they should be made to refund most of it, truth be told.

In this case, "she chose to keep the lease" just doesn't cut it. They are ripping these people off, plain and simple.

John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:3

Re: According to some of you

said by Fatal Vector:

It's a matter of ripping off the elderly and incompetent for 21 YEARS for rental on a obsolete device originally furnished by a monopoly. Cable modems are not obsolete devices.
It is not obsolete...it functions perfectly.

Karl whined....er...complained that the device was an antique, which it is.

Bur it is not obsolete.
--
A is A

shortckt
Watchen Das Blinken Lights
Premium
join:2000-12-05
Tenant Hell
said by R4M0N:

Oh come on... The old lady in the article is complaining that she likes the rotary better than the new phone she got! It's not a company's resposibility to hand-hold their customer's every decision.
The larger issue is that after renting the phone to the customer for that many years (and the customer prefers rotary) the company should have just given it to her and stopped charging for it. After all, could they still repair or replace that rotary phone today if it broke? Do you think the phone company still keeps spares for something this old?

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000

Re: According to some of you

for $14,000 i'm sure they would have bought an identical version on ebay (or from a garage sale) and sent it back to her good as new!

they want to keep milking that cow!

milk milk milk!

R4M0N
Brazilian Soccer Ownz Joo

join:2000-10-04
Glen Allen, VA

1 edit
said by shortckt:

The larger issue is that after renting the phone to the customer for that many years (and the customer prefers rotary) the company should have just given it to her and stopped charging for it. After all, could they still repair or replace that rotary phone today if it broke? Do you think the phone company still keeps spares for something this old?
Awwww. Let's all hold hands and sing kumbayah too while we are at it.

Was she entitled to a free phone? Did the company promise her a free phone after so many years of service? If I keep my cable TV for 25 years, should the compnay just give me free cable after that?

Come on people... Get a grip on reality.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:30
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech

1 edit

Re: According to some of you

quote:
Awwww. Let's all hold hands and sing kumbayah too while we are at it.
Better yet, let's go mug some old people! It's their fault their brittle bones can't stop our body blows! If they don't fight it means they deserve it! Let's go! I'll bring the death metal!

R4M0N
Brazilian Soccer Ownz Joo

join:2000-10-04
Glen Allen, VA

2 edits

Re: According to some of you

said by Karl Bode:

Better yet, let's go mug some old people! It's their fault their brittle bones can't stop our body blows! If they don't fight it means they deserve it! Let's go! I'll bring the death metal!
Sweet! Let's!

Let me get this straight. You're comparing a lady freely choosing to keep her lease on a phone to getting beaten senseless by thugs?

Wow. Dan Savage is right. Liberalism IS a mental illness. Shoot, maybe you're ENTITLED to some compensation for that.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:30
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech

4 edits

Re: According to some of you

Ooh, I'm mentally ill. Touche! Maybe you can charge me $10 for a cure made up of mud-puddle water and horse hair, then applaud your own capitalistic ingenuity!

Instead of regurgitating talk radio punditry, lets go door to door tonight and see how many of these 750,000 have full control over their faculties, and if they understand their bills.

If they don't, we can laugh at them! Maybe hit them with fruit!

R4M0N
Brazilian Soccer Ownz Joo

join:2000-10-04
Glen Allen, VA

Re: According to some of you

said by Karl Bode:

Ooh, I'm mentally ill. Touche! Maybe you can charge me $10 for a cure made up of mud-puddle water and horse hair, then applaud your own capitalistic ingenuity!

Instead of regurgitating talk radio punditry, lets go door to door tonight and see how many of these 750,000 have full control over their faculties, and if they understand their bills.

If they don't, we can laugh at them! Maybe hit them with fruit!
Do you ever make a suggestion even remotely realistic?

I mean, you go from "let's beat up old people" to "let's go to all their homes and see if they are not senile"... I think I have better things to do for the next few months.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:30

Re: According to some of you

You're absolutely no fun.

R4M0N
Brazilian Soccer Ownz Joo

join:2000-10-04
Glen Allen, VA

Re: According to some of you

said by Karl Bode:

You're absolutely no fun.
Ok...fine... We can go beat up some old folks later. Where did I leave my trusty lead pipe?

Fatal Vector

join:2005-11-26
Do you ever make a suggestion even remotely realistic?

It's called sarcasm. Ever hear of it? How dense can you be?

R4M0N
Brazilian Soccer Ownz Joo

join:2000-10-04
Glen Allen, VA

1 edit

Re: According to some of you


Thanks for the news, Tom brokaw.
said by Fatal Vector:

It's called sarcasm. Ever hear of it? How dense can you be?

Fatal Vector

join:2005-11-26

Re: According to some of you

Attachments:

Thanks for the news, Tom brokaw.

said by Fatal Vector :

"It's called sarcasm. Ever hear of it? How dense can you be?"

Awwww...Aint that cute? He found himself a cute widdle picture. I'm sooooo impressed!

Chuckles
Premium
join:2006-03-04
Saint Paul, MN
said by Karl Bode:

Ooh, I'm mentally ill. Touche! Maybe you can charge me $10 for a cure made up of mud-puddle water and horse hair, then applaud your own capitalistic ingenuity!
If you're dum enough to buy it or in this case "old enough", why not? Heck I'll make you a deal... $7.50!
--
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face— forever.

kustomerservice.net

John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:3
said by R4M0N:

Wow. Dan Savage is right. Liberalism IS a mental illness. Shoot, maybe you're ENTITLED to some compensation for that.
Nah...I say we keep Karl here and poke him with sharp sticks...well, sharp witticisms at least.


--
A is A

Fatal Vector

join:2005-11-26
"Was she entitled to a free phone? Did the company promise her a free phone after so many years of service?"

Yes, as a matter of fact, she was, since that was part of the deal she agreed to back then: Repair or replace.

R4M0N
Brazilian Soccer Ownz Joo

join:2000-10-04
Glen Allen, VA

1 edit

Re: According to some of you

said by Fatal Vector:

"Was she entitled to a free phone? Did the company promise her a free phone after so many years of service?"

Yes, as a matter of fact, she was, since that was part of the deal she agreed to back then: Repair or replace.
The phone wasn't broken.... Go read the article, please. Oh, there's a quote button too...just so... you know.

Fatal Vector

join:2005-11-26

Re: According to some of you

said by Fatal Vector

"Was she entitled to a free phone? Did the company promise her a free phone after so many years of service?"

"Yes, as a matter of fact, she was, since that was part of the deal she agreed to back then: Repair or replace."
--------------------------------------------------------------

"The phone wasn't broken.... Go read the article, please. Oh, there's a quote button too...just so... you know."

What part of the question above dont you understand? did it say anything about the phone being broken?

I guess after so many soccer balls to the head the neurons get scrambled.

shortckt
Watchen Das Blinken Lights
Premium
join:2000-12-05
Tenant Hell
said by R4M0N:

said by shortckt:

The larger issue is that after renting the phone to the customer for that many years (and the customer prefers rotary) the company should have just given it to her and stopped charging for it. After all, could they still repair or replace that rotary phone today if it broke? Do you think the phone company still keeps spares for something this old?
Awwww. Let's all hold hands and sing kumbayah too while we are at it.

Was she entitled to a free phone? Did the company promise her a free phone after so many years of service? If I keep my cable TV for 25 years, should the compnay just give me free cable after that?

Come on people... Get a grip on reality.
I never said the customer should get a free phone. It has been paid for many times over it's value by the 40+ years of rent on it; and your comparison to cable TV service is wrong, I never said or implied the phone company should give her free service (i.e. dialtone).

jslik
That just happened
Premium
join:2006-03-17
said by R4M0N:

Businesses are not in business to make your decisions for you. They are in business to make a profit.
The old Ma Bell did quite well doing both, and those same mentalities are still in place.

SandShark
Long may you run
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-23
Santa Fe, TX
kudos:3
On a similar note, my contract for DSL with AT&T has been up since January, at which time my monthly DSL bill went from, I believe, $21.95/month to $34.95/month. Obviously, their billing program knew when my contract was up and automatically adjusted my bill to the higher rate. I've been paying the higher rate since that time when all I'd have to do to lower it is pick up the phone and call. It would have been nice if I didn't have to do that, but I don't blame AT&T for my laziness and procrastination. Business is business, I suppose.

shortckt
Watchen Das Blinken Lights
Premium
join:2000-12-05
Tenant Hell

1 edit
said by R4M0N:

It seems elderly people cease to be responsible for their own choices after a certain age... Old people are still over the legal age if I remember correctly. If they are so gullible, remove their freedom to make their own choices or shut up about it.
Someday you will be one of those elderly people, then you can experience that brain fade. Come back and tell us what it feels like when you are trying to decipher your phone bill, or trying to make sense of what the car mechanic is telling you, or can't remember if you turned off the appliances before leaving the house.

Old people have kids, where are they to help them make wise choices in regards to things they don't understand?
Not all elderly have kids, or anyone else to help them make important decisions.

I know squat about mutual funds (about as much as old people do about technology). Does that mean the ugly investment firm should be vilified if I make a bad choice in investments?
In the case of mutual funds, maybe yes, since the fund decides where to invest your money; but that's not a good analogy for this topic.
wlipman

join:2005-01-06
Pawling, NY

1 edit
do the math, kiddies...

750,000 out of 40 million is about 1.875%

Easily, 2% of any given population are blithering idiots, regardless of age.

She was a dope at 61, she's not going to improve at 85.

Face it: stupid is here to stay. Or, as Einstein said, the difference between genius and stupidity is that gneius is finite.

Paladin
Sage of the light

join:2001-08-17
Chester, IL

Re: According to some of you

There are much more evil and insipid things the phone companies in this country are doing. This woman was just stupid if you ask me.

I'd rather focus on the real atrocities though.
--
First rule of fiber optics: you do not talk about fiber optics!

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