Have I Gone Over the Top? in Security http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r16951550 en Sat, 05 Dec 2009 16:45:35 EDT Sat, 05 Dec 2009 16:45:35 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16961067 Mele20 : How does being an informed, educated computer user help me when I need to hook up my 98SE box that is networked to a dial up connection for some reason (broadband is down, etc)? If I don't have a good resident AV on it, I will be infected within a couple of minutes with Opaserve and other viruses. My 98SE box used to be tied down very tight using NetBeui but now it is usually behind a router and is networked making it wide open to attacks if it ever connects directly to the internet. I did forget, when I first networked it and Road Runner went down and I went on RR dial up, that my settings now made a once very secure box wide open to infection. It only took a couple of minutes for me to be infected. Luckily, I had a resident AV that caught the virus but usually I don't run anything more than an on demand AV on that box.

I cannot even take that box off the network and connect it directly to my modem for troubleshooting (which I need to do because of very slow internet speed on that box only) because presently I have AVS on it and I can't register AVS so it has definitions that are about six weeks old. AOL finally responded to my support request but just told me to re-register and reinstall AVS. Well, I had already done that three times and I still get a rejection when I try to register with Kaspersky. I don't have a software firewall on it for many reasons and don't need one when behind the router and didn't need one before I networked it. Lots of knowledge about security is not going to protect that computer if it is networked and goes naked on the internet for some reason. I stupidly, several months after I got the first infection on it while it was on dial up, again took it off the network for troubleshooting as per the Road Runner tier 3 tech's instructions. I connected it directly to the modem and as we spoke it was infected. That fast. (Luckily, I still had a resident AV on it at that time and it caught the virus).

This is just one example of many, many examples i could give for why information, education, and safe hex are not the be and end all to protection against nasties. I have always advocated education and safe computing in the fight against malware but that in no way means one never needs applications in the fight against nasties.
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"If you want to do DRM on a PC then you need to treat the user as the enemy." Ross Anderson in "`Trusted Computing' Frequently Asked Questions"

»www.ie7.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16961067 Sat, 23 Sep 2006 18:29:02 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16958776 Bud4wiser :
Have YOU Gone Over the Top?


I'd say so. Your focus on security through software is misplaced. Informed, educated computer users are the best defense against most threats.
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Thanks]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16958776 Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:39:25 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16957757 Toby983 : I have F-Secure as resident. Bit Def 8 free as backup on demand. Ewido full, BO Clean, Host file, NAT, Spybot S&D, spysweeper full, and finally firefox with no script and adblock, and so far so good, but i do pratice safe-hex and visit pretty much the same safe web sites (safe for now and lately that is). I do remember the official oblivion forums had a script running that infected IE users that didn't have high security set correctly (and you didn't even have to sign in to the forums to get infected), or no script running with Firefox. In my case F-Secure caught it as did no script on firefox, but many users were infected just visiting the forums until the admin showed up the next day and removed the script.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16957757 Sat, 23 Sep 2006 02:11:01 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16957653 kangabil : Ah Winky, love you too. The tin hat WAS getting a bit crumpled. BUT I'll have to remember to tap my red shoes twice before casting spells.

Seriously though folks,

Thanks all for the advice; on summary, I'm fairly well protected, might look more closely at trojans, and think about any overlapping functions of existing sniffers and snoopers.

NO system is not bogged down. Still got about 350MB of 512 MB ram available when doodling about on the net.

I haven't been hammered by any trash for a couple of years now, but I don't trawl the obvious places you can get the computer clap and do take some care when I think I might be getting a bit close to the wind.

Won't go on any further you've got me where I need to go and may all of your gods go with you and your families.
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Who was that masked man?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16957653 Sat, 23 Sep 2006 01:32:35 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16957310 winky : Argh: Tin Foil is useless. A properly grounded copper cage is the only way to go. Beef and Apple, my assistants, have worked out a very scientificky formula for the correct spacing of the grid as well as insulation for the interior since it's electrified also. They built it while I was asleep one night. As a reward I gave them each a can of Friskies Premium as well as a new flea collar.
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From this point forward Hoedown, from the ballet RODEO, by Aaron Copeland will not be reffered to as "The Beef Song". Thank You]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16957310 Sat, 23 Sep 2006 00:10:05 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16956592 Mele20 : If you are going to use IE, Spyware Blaster is absolute must! It doesn't run in the background so it will not slow your computer or conflict with other programs.

I agree you should invest in a router and because you use NOD32 get an anti-trojan program.

I also highly recommend imaging software such as True Image.

I also recommend the Proxomitron with Sidki's Sept 2006 configs.

Another good thing to have is HIPS ...such as ProcessGuard or SSM, Prevx, Online Armor, etc.

I certainly don't think you are overboard with what you have especially if you are using IE.
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"If you want to do DRM on a PC then you need to treat the user as the enemy." Ross Anderson in "`Trusted Computing' Frequently Asked Questions"

»www.ie7.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16956592 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 21:59:15 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16956072 Jeffrey : You're not over the top, you're a user that's taking great proactive steps toward running a healthy, stable, secure machine.

Consider Firefox and perhaps BOclean as suggested in earlier posts.

Remember that the user has the most control/responsibility when it comes to attracting bad crap. It's great to have all those antivirus/antispyware defenses, but it's more important to have educated users on that machine. If it's just you, the same rules apply but then again you'll have more control.

Consider limited vs. admin users.

Good luck.

Edit: I just re-read one of your replies, and saw you didn't like Firefox. Check out Opera, but if you're die-hard stuck on IE, so be it. I won't argue with you there.

--
"When you get lost in your imaginatory vagueness, your forsight becomes a nimble vagrant."

[Ramblings] [Gallery]]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16956072 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 20:28:27 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16956070 JTM1051 : FYI:
»What's your security mix?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16956070 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 20:28:18 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16955994 dvd536 : theres no such thing as "too secure" when running windows.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16955994 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 20:16:06 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16955426 Red_Dog :
said by Daniel See Profile :

said by motoracer See Profile :

Well, it's not so much that you can avoid worrying at all -- it's more like you don't have to live in constant terror.
2 words....true image
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i'll be done.... when i'm finished.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16955426 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 18:42:58 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16954825 Daniel :
said by motoracer See Profile :

Those are the reasons I'm looking into a Mac. Haven't touched one since elementary school, but they are definitely looking like the way to go now.

Imagine not having to worry about spyware/viruses/etc...yet
Well, it's not so much that you can avoid worrying at all -- it's more like you don't have to live in constant terror.
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dmiessler.com -- grep understanding knowledge]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16954825 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 16:55:04 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16954749 dadkins :
said by motoracer See Profile :

Imagine not having to worry about spyware/viruses/etc...yet
I don't worry about them now. No, this is *NOT* a Mac or Linux.

____________________________________________________________

kangabil, You should be fine.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16954749 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 16:41:25 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16954737 motoracer : Those are the reasons I'm looking into a Mac. Haven't touched one since elementary school, but they are definitely looking like the way to go now.

Imagine not having to worry about spyware/viruses/etc...yet]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16954737 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 16:39:00 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16954417 Daniel :
said by kangabil See Profile :

Have I gone over the top?
Yes.
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dmiessler.com -- grep understanding knowledge]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16954417 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:47:42 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16954323 La Luna : Looks good to me as long as your system is running without being bogged down (which it shouldn't be with what you've got).

I'd also go for a router, and depending on your habits, maybe use a limited account.

Other than that, you look good to go. :)
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~~Well, I think you're crazy, I think you're crazy, I think you're crazy, just like me...~~

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16954323 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:30:18 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16953512 JohnInSJ : Over the top - sitting in a corner next to your disassembled PC, wrapped in tin foil. Slightly over the top - running MacOS or Linux because "it's safer". Mildly over the top - running behind two NAT routers. You - normal good windows user who is aware of security.

I'd do the no-admin user thing, and putting a NAT router in is pretty darn cheap (under $40) for the extra protection it adds.

But unless you're also wrapped in tin foil, you're fine.
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My place : »www.schettino.us]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16953512 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:13:32 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16953344 Psicop : OK, what's missing on this list:

1. NAT router
2. Internet access through a limited account
3. SpywareBlaster

Make sure you lock the hosts file with Spybot S & D and there is not need to maintain the Hosts file as long as you keep it blocked and practice "safe surfing."

The original hosts file should read:

# Copyright (c) 1998 Microsoft Corp.
# This is a sample HOSTS file used by Microsoft TCP/IP stack for Windows98
# This file contains the mappings of IP addresses to host names. Each
# entry should be kept on an individual line. The IP address should
# be placed in the first column followed by the corresponding host name.
# The IP address and the host name should be separated by at least one
# space.
# Additionally, comments (such as these) may be inserted on individual
# lines or following the machine name denoted by a '#' symbol.
# For example:
# 102.54.94.97 rhino.acme.com # source server
# 38.25.63.10 x.acme.com # x client host

127.0.0.1 localhost (and that's it).

Cheers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16953344 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:46:30 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16951813 Kilroy : The better answer is a question.

Are you satisfied with the performance of you system? There is a fine line between security and usability. As long as you are satisfied with how your system works then you're not over the top.

You have sufficient protection, if combined with common sense.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16951813 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 06:54:22 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16951740 Buddel :
said by kangabil See Profile :

Likewise Buddel, the trojan aspect I thought was being looked after by NOD.
I also use NOD32 and like it. However, I don't think that this AV renders anti-trojan software useless. IMHO, its trojan detection still leaves a lot to be desired. Therefore, I also use an anti-trojan, which is another useful and necessary layer of protection. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16951740 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 06:00:07 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16951721 kangabil : Thanks redwolfe_98, as you can see I only keep 2 (ZAP and Nod32) resident. The others I use when the need arises.

Hadn't thought about the Trojan aspect. Will look into further.

Likewise Buddel, the trojan aspect I thought was being looked after by NOD.

Dear Rotty, tried Firefox but after being in computers since 1971, and so thoroughly brain washed by you know who with glasses, I couldn't quite get the hang of it so stuck with M$; maybe I'm getting too old and grumpy, at least thats what a certain retired Fire Captain says; (as if I'd believe him anyway).

I think I'll stay with what I've got and tack on a non-resident Trojan sniffer as a final "belt and Braces" fix.
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Who was that masked man?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16951721 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 05:53:03 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16951711 SpannerITWks : Surprised no ones jumped in with, LUA or Non Admin lol.

Even so, these days there's some really bad **** around + getting cleverer by the week, so having some Top protection ain't gonna hurt none, in fact just the opposite !

Spanner
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I Only Know What I Know, But I'm Learning all The Time - Stay Safe - Spanner intheWorks
/SpannerITWks]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16951711 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 05:48:05 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16951670 rotty97 : I suggest as well as what you allready have as another layer:

Firefox
Spyware Blaster

and none of these will use RAM!!

cheers, rotty]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16951670 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 05:14:31 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16951628 Buddel : I don't think you've gone over the top. You use a firewall (ZA), an anti-virus program (NOD32) and a couple of anti-spyware programs. Looks good to me; that's what I call layered protection.

Some people may argue that a good anti-trojan would be another program you should use because I hear again and again that NOD32 catches all sorts of viruses, but its detection of trojans is, they say, not that great. Anyway, I don't think it's "overkill" to use the programs you mentioned in your post. Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: redwolfe_98 seems to type a bit faster than I do. Yes, BOClean is an excellent anti-trojan. It's definitely worth buying. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16951628 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 02:56:53 EDT Re: Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16951613 redwolfe_98 : i don't see how you could be "over the top" with what you are running..

if it was me, i would want to add an anti-trojan program like either BOClean or TrojanHunter.. i also use IESPYAD and the MVPS winhelp2002 HOSTS file, and i have IE's security settings for the internet zone set to "high" (customized).. and you can block third-party cookies in IE/tools/options/privacy..

you don't want to have too many security programs running in realtime.. there are limitations due to the way that win xp is designed.. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16951613 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 02:48:47 EDT Have I Gone Over the Top? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16951550 kangabil : Have I gone over the top in protection???

Op. Software is XP SP2 with All updates so far.
MS Office 2000 Pro with all updates.

ADSL modem is a NetComm NB1300 plus 4
Running 512 down & 128 up

Protection as follows

Zone Alarm Pro (latest version always updated with absolutely NO problems ever) always on guard

Nod32 (Paid up not free) on duty at all times

Run every so often
Spybot Search and Destroy 1.4
Lavasoft Ad-aware SE Personal (Free version)
Trend Micro Anti-Spyware

Spyware Doctor (Paid up version) only run once weekly and then shut down as it’s good but a dreadful resource hog.

AdSubtract Pro used as & when I feel like it but definitely not in the proxy mode(I know it’s not supported any more but it sure can pick up the stray cookies I do not want that no others will report))

I know that somewhere in here will be a post telling me the optimum MINIMUM that I could use but I can't find exactly what I need so some input from you would be appreciated.

Can come back early am my time Saturday to catch up.
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Who was that masked man?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16951550 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 02:20:08 EDT