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| reply to morbo
Re: sure! let's take a big crap on the constitution... Name ONE of YOUR rights that have been violated? Just ONE!
If Britain wasn't allowed to spy, a lot of planes would have blown up not long ago.
The NSA has said it monitors calling trends for keywords terrorists use and if you happen to be one talking, I say off to Gitmo.
If anything, Bush should get bashed for not securing the border with Mexico. Canada should get a kick in the rear for allowing anyone in their country. Build the wall on the Mexican border--with a mout full of crocs.
Illegals from Mexico drain resources OUR citizens should be getting like free medical care. Illegals with criminal records kill and rape. Send them back.
Why is that Mexican illegals in the USA send more $$$ back to Mexico than Mexico makes except for a corrupt few? One would think if Mexico cared at all about its people they would share all their oil wealth. No, they don't. | |
liquid0h
join:2003-02-03
Hurlburt Field, FL | Woot! Hell yeah!
If you have something to hide, maybe you shouldn't be here =) | |
amungusPremium
join:2004-11-26
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| reply to rachelsfx
Yes, in fact he should. It's far worse than not just "securing" the border, it's going in the totally opposite direction... why do you think they've been so quiet about it...
"if Mexico cared at all about its people they would" ...not be so wishful of (legally or illigally coming to) our land...
PLEASE take the time to read this story and others that are related...
»southwestfarmpress.com/news/0921···orridor/
Just 1 little story about the agricultural impact of the NAFTA superhighway... or, have you not heard about that???
As for your question about what right(s) have been, or would be violated... read this and see if it make any sense to you:
U.S. District Court Judge Anna Diggs Taylor held the program unconstitutional on the ground that it violated the Administrative Procedures Act, the Separation of Powers doctrine, the First and Fourth Amendments of the U.S. Constitution, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), and Title III of the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act (Title III)
BTW, what good will this do for our rights??? Name one positive thing that this does to secure them.
Thus, if we trample our own freedoms we've fought and defended, what good does it do? I fail to see how so many people cannot see that line of reasoning and at least debate it in a rational manner.
Of course, I see the point that we should darn well keep tabs on suspected terrorists, and take action where need be to avoid an attack.
I just don't see how giving up our freedoms, liberties, paid for with blood sweat and tears, is the answer. | |
| reply to rachelsfx
If Britain wasn't allowed to spy, a lot of planes would have blown up not long ago.
The British got help from the CIA, WHO GOT WARRANTS. | |
 FLea973Premium
join:2001-02-27
Morristown, NJ | said by Spudge_Boy:The British got help from the CIA, WHO GOT WARRANTS. CIA got warrants?
1) According to their FAQ, they don't need warrants to "investigate" Americans for terrorist/espionage just "senior approval" or in some cases a nod from either the Dir. of Nat. Intelligence or the Attorney General.
2) Aside from certain specific reasons it is a Federal crime for them to "investigate" Americans
3) Why would the CIA or ANY American intelligence agency need a warrant to spy on foreigners outside the USA?
4) By your statement quoted above, do you mean the only reason that the Brits cracked the case is because the CIA got warrants, spied on Americans who knew/funded/directed that operation?
5) Based on #5, What worries you more?
.....a) there are Americans (or folks in America) complicit in that planned terrorist attack, that could have directly impacted you or someone you know? or
.....b) that IF there were, the reason nothing has been said about them, they are still on the loose and the reason no one has stopped them from thinking up a new scheme, is because they are Americans not overtly doing ANYTHING to draw suspicion and thus indicate a warrant needs to be taken against them
As far as them gaining the evidence THEN getting the warrant - there is always the old "Poison Fruit" case law that usually tosses all LEGITIMATELY gained evidence used in US trials if the reason the legitimacy was gained was obtained illegally (e.g. illegal wiretap evidence used to get a warrant for a wiretap/confession/etc)
Of course you can always encrypt your email and what not, and send it anywhere in the world... but the second it hits a foreign router (even if not encrypted), it is perfectly legal (under US law) for the US government to take a look.
: puts on tin-foil hat :
For the conspiracy folks out there... If the US government REALLY wants to spy on US citizens in detail or en masse LEGALLY, they could always outsource the job to another nation like say Canada, the UK or Israel - hell, not only would it be easier, but it'd probably be cheaper
: takes off tin-foil hat :
What really chaps my hide about the big stink over the NSA "wire taps" and before that, under a different admin, the Carnivore program (do you REALLY think it was shut down????) is that 1) How many folks have stopped to think of the amount of storage space needed to retain that info? 3) Computers are doing 99.999...% of the work 2) It is most likely set up kinda like a router - mundane crap ignored - possibly interesting stuff is forwarded to another bank of processors that apply more detail algorithms that toss out even more then pass the remaining to decrypt if needed 3) then take the really questionable clear and the decrypted through another system that tosses out even more (probably 99.999...% of the decrypted stuff) 4) deposits the remaining data in the inbox of some overworked underpaid junior analysts who have to determine if it needs escalation. -- If the govt actually retained all of this WHY would they want ISPs to maintain comprehensive logs of everything?
Either the government IS as incompetent at appears to be when faced with challenges (Katrina, border security, leaks, etc.) or it is so capable that it can anything without our knowing while believably appearing incompetent - if the last part is true, then we already are boned... Maddox has an interesting point along these lines...
--
To the past, or to the future. To an age when thought is free. From the Age of Big Brother, from the Age of the Thought Police, from a dead man... greetings | |
| reply to rachelsfx
What kills me is what would happen to one of us if we were to sneak into Mexico illegally (like anybody would really want to, but that's a separate point). Anybody know what would happen? Off to prison with you, most likely never to be heard from again. I can't imagine the Democratic backlash if Bush wanted to implement that same kind of law in this country -- but we all know that would never happen. Bush has been a wetback-lover ever since he was the governor of Texas. | |
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