 BIGMIKEPremium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA | reply to Fatal Vector
Re: I didn't know The Waco Massacre
Many people believe that David Koresh (or the Branch Davidians) were responsible for the deaths of the 74 men, women and children who died in the inferno at Waco on April 19, 1993. This is the story that the FBI put out. It is a lie. The guns they had were legal. The local sheriff investigated and found no basis for complaints against them. These were law-abiding American citizens, even if they thought differently to most other folks. They trusted the U.S. Constitution to ensure their political rights, but they were murdered by agents acting under the authority of the U.S. government. Read this page if you believe otherwise. If you still have doubts, get the video Rules of Engagement for visual evidence. Or read the book Armageddon in Waco. Or see the film Waco: A New Revelation. »www.serendipity.li/waco.html
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Type "miserable failure" in Google |
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| Yeah yeah and 9/11 was a government plot to get a war in Iraq, the Holocaust was made up by the jews to get some pity.
Isn't there a conspiracy forum away from the general public for people like you? |
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| Conspiracy Minded Forum said by Shark_615:Isn't there a conspiracy forum away from the general public for people like you?
Not "away from the general public", in fact it is very public (free membership)...........
abovetopsecret.com
DV
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Bush is the Prez....Think Patriot Act II....This outspoken dissident....In jail I'll be soon. |
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| reply to BIGMIKE
Re: I didn't know said by BIGMIKE:The Waco Massacre ...This is the story that the FBI put out. It is a lie. The guns they had were legal. The local sheriff investigated and found no basis for complaints against them. Um... no. They had automatic weapons, which were illegal in Texas. No point in countering any of the other claims. |
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BVT
join:2004-10-25
Mount Juliet, TN | Possessing automatic weapons is not illegal. If the weapons were purchased before a ban went into affect, they are legal.
There is no such thing as a grandfather law (crime) in this country. Now debunk more of his argument |
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| said by BVT:Possessing automatic weapons is not illegal. If the weapons were purchased before a ban went into affect, they are legal. Now show proof the guns were purchased before the automatic weapons ban. I don't know about you, but when a group stockpiles a huge cache of military weapons I would want the authorities to get involved. |
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emptywigHuh? What?Premium
join:2002-08-05
Pasadena, TX | reply to BVT
They shot cops. That's what got all those people killed. THEY shot cops. End of story.
They fact the guns were legal is a moot point. Even if EVERY gun was legal, its not legal to shoot cops, even if they're coming in on bogus charges.
wig
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Sometimes a paradox is just a paradox |
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emptywigHuh? What?Premium
join:2002-08-05
Pasadena, TX | reply to BIGMIKE
That film and book and both nonsense.
wig
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Sometimes a paradox is just a paradox |
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 sweintzPremium
join:2002-03-01
Chester, CT | reply to emptywig
said by emptywig:They shot cops. That's what got all those people killed. THEY shot cops. End of story. They fact the guns were legal is a moot point. Even if EVERY gun was legal, its not legal to shoot cops, even if they're coming in on bogus charges. wig THEY only shot cops after cops opened fire on THEM first with automatic weapons. From a helicopter no less. |
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| I remember the footage. ATF was closing in on the compound and about to get in, but the first shots came from the compound. NOT the police. |
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| you are an idiot.
have you ever bothered watching some of the recent shows about this subject on the history or learning channel?
the government did totally mess up and they were climbing ONTO the property when they got shot.
too bad for them, i say. dont put the police and swat teams on a pedestal. they're just like you and i, doing our jobs. lets not get all emotional just because they "protect" us. they're not all heros. in fact most cops have serious inferiority complexes they inflict on the public on a daily basis.
what about that one cop that was supposedly babysitting but actually molesting the child? this guy was in the forces for at least a decade or two.
so yeah, they were "about to get in" but I would consider climing onto the roof and breaking a window open "getting in". |
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| That doesn't stop the fact that they shot at police officers. The warrants were issued. They knew the police were coming. They knew why the police were coming. Do you say it's okay for a drug dealer to shoot at DEA agents because they are coming into his property? Law abiding citizens don't shoot at law enforcement officers when they KNOW it's law enforcement officers.
Regardless of whether or not they felt they did nothing wrong, they did the wrong thing. I don't care who you are. Once you start shooting all bets are off.
And you call me the idiot? |
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4 edits | reply to SRFireside
said by SRFireside:Now show proof the guns were purchased before the automatic weapons ban. I don't know about you, but when a group stockpiles a huge cache of military weapons I would want the authorities to get involved. I have a large cache of these weapons..all legally owned by me...And no, I don't need the military here to make sure I'm being good with them....thats what the background check was for...now Its MY business....
said by SRFireside:That doesn't stop the fact that they shot at police officers. The warrants were issued. They knew the police were coming. They knew why the police were coming. Do you say it's okay for a drug dealer to shoot at DEA agents because they are coming into his property? Law abiding citizens don't shoot at law enforcement officers when they KNOW it's law enforcement officers. Regardless of whether or not they felt they did nothing wrong, they did the wrong thing. I don't care who you are. Once you start shooting all bets are off. This part I agree with whole heartedly |
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| reply to SRFireside
said by SRFireside:said by BIGMIKE:The Waco Massacre ...This is the story that the FBI put out. It is a lie. The guns they had were legal. The local sheriff investigated and found no basis for complaints against them. Um... no. They had automatic weapons, which were illegal in Texas. No point in countering any of the other claims. NO, wrong answer
FACT: The ATF, submitted falsified evidence, in order to conduct a raid. The warrant contained 2 lies. The first lie, A meth lab was inside being used to manufacture drugs. The second lie, illegal arms trading was being conducted there, BOTH false allegations, which was proven in court.
FACT: The Davidians had no automatic weapons as reported by the liberal media press reports.
FACT: The ATF had the only automatic weapons, who were trained by Army Special Forces, WHO WERE present the day of the raid.
FACT: The ATF field agent conducting this raid, learned the raid was compromised, called the SAC to call it off. The idea to call off the raid was rejected by Clinton & Janet Reno, who ordered the assault into motion.
FACT: David Koresch jogged daily, they could have picked him up any time.
FACT:During the Congressional investigation of this botched raid. The ATF refused to produce the front door of the retreat, Stating, "we misplaced the evidence and can't find it."
FACT: The ATF went in shooting, which is why they refuse to produce the front door, which would incriminate themselves.
FACT: After pumping that place full of CS gas, ATF agents entered rear of building(off camera view) and opened fire, after emerging from an APC, that WAS firing during approach.
FACT: The ATF, never intended for anyone to come out alive. After pumping toxic and highly flammable levels of CS gas into the retreat.
The ATF, used an APC, breached the building in strategic locations, NOT to allow escape routes as claimed, but to ensure fire moved swiftly through the building. Did you notice the lack of fire trucks which were kept well away from the blaze?
The reason, CS gas burning in that inferno, when contacted by water, would have produce a very toxic gas cloud and the high winds that day would have swept that cloud over a populated area causing hundreds of more deaths.
FACT: BTW owning fully automatic weapons is not illegal. Provided one obtains a class III tax stamp and/or in addition with an FFL.
All liberals wanting to keep repeating lies as fact, go right ahead, repeat it often enough, maybe you'll believe it yourselves to be true. I on the other hand will keep countering your false lies with facts of truth.
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Bass....the glue of rhythm and harmony...the heartbeat of the band.! Shaking the earth with deep,sonorous vibrations.The dark ominous thunder of an approching storm. |
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| FACT: There is no way a law enforcement agency intended to kill off entire families. Give me a reason WHY they would do that for a simple little cult in Waco and then give me some EVIDENCE to prove it.
FACT: They still shot at law enforcement officers first. If they didn't fire a shot I'll pay even money on the odds that the ATF would never have fired a shot either. Like every other raid of this sort the objective is to be prepared for any hostilities. Looks like the other side wanted to kill so the ATF was right.
Yes this was a botched job by the ATF. Yes they went about it totally the wrong way. Yes Janet Reno was putting on a show for the press flexing her law enforcement muscles. And YES the Branch Davidians attacked the ATF agents before they entered the compound, giving Reno the perfect excuse to go to the extreme. IF the Davidians didn't fire a shot everybody would be alive right now. |
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BIGMIKEPremium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA | Clear cut violations of the law.
The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed in 1878 after the end of Reconstruction. The Act was intended to prohibit Federal troops from supervising elections in former Confederate states. It generally prohibits Federal military personnel and units of the United States National Guard under Federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congress. The Posse Comitatus Act and the Insurrection Act substantially limit the powers of the Federal government to use the military for law enforcement.
The original act referred only to the United States Army. The Air Force was added in 1956, and the Navy and the Marine Corps have been included by a regulation of the Department of Defense. This law is often mentioned when it appears that the Department of Defense is interfering in domestic disturbances. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
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Type "miserable failure" in Google |
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| reply to Shark_615
"Yeah yeah and 9/11 was a government plot to get a war in Iraq, the Holocaust was made up by the jews to get some pity.
Isn't there a conspiracy forum away from the general public for people like you?"
I think you should read up on Waco and what happened, along with the aftermath before you go popping off, since you obviously aren't familliar with it in any meaningfull fashion.
I suggest you read up on Ruby Ridge too as to how the man was vindicated and his wife and son were shot in the back by a government sniper and how the state of Idaho tried to prosecute that sniper for murder.
The FACT is that the government DOES do things like this, for whatever reason. |
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| reply to SRFireside
"Now show proof the guns were purchased before the automatic weapons ban. I don't know about you, but when a group stockpiles a huge cache of military weapons I would want the authorities to get involved."
And, just WHAT was he going to do with a "stockpile" of weapons? Do what he did and try to defend himself? This business about weapons was only the governments excuse to raid the place, which they did without announcing their presence or presenting a warrant. Instead a ATF kill team went in and tried to sneak in and take control. They were discovers as prowlers and shot at which was, of course, the excuse for the seige.
Kill one of ours and we WILL get you, no matter what it takes, REGARDLESS of if we were wrong in the first place.
the other bottom line fact is that Koresh was in town every day, or running outside the compound and the sheriff could have scooped him up any time.
But they didn't want to do that. They wanted to do their usual gestapo crap and raid the place in full kill kit. Just scooping Koresh off the street would very likely have served to defuse the situation and lead to a peacefull surrender. |
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| reply to emptywig
"Even if EVERY gun was legal, its not legal to shoot cops, even if they're coming in on bogus charges."
Excuse me? It's not legal to prowl around peoples property in the middle of the night, out in rural Texas and climb up on the roof of the house then try to break in with a assault team without announcing yourself and the fact you have a warrant. They were arrogant and stupid and some of them paid for it with their lives.
I hate to tell you this, but cops are not the lilly white warriors you would like to believe they are. ESPECIALLY the federal ones who think they can do any damn thing they want to just because they are federal LEO's.
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| reply to SRFireside
"I remember the footage. ATF was closing in on the compound and about to get in, but the first shots came from the compound. NOT the police."
The assault team was discovered on the roof of the building and was fired upon. 3 agents were killed. They had not announced themselves, or, that they had a warrant. The people inside were within their rights to open fire as far as I am concerned. The police are supposed to announce they are police and have a warrant before attempting to break in. |
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