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| reply to BIGMIKE
Re: I didn't know said by BIGMIKE:The Waco Massacre ...This is the story that the FBI put out. It is a lie. The guns they had were legal. The local sheriff investigated and found no basis for complaints against them. Um... no. They had automatic weapons, which were illegal in Texas. No point in countering any of the other claims. | |
BVT
join:2004-10-25
Mount Juliet, TN | Possessing automatic weapons is not illegal. If the weapons were purchased before a ban went into affect, they are legal.
There is no such thing as a grandfather law (crime) in this country. Now debunk more of his argument | | |
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| said by BVT:Possessing automatic weapons is not illegal. If the weapons were purchased before a ban went into affect, they are legal. Now show proof the guns were purchased before the automatic weapons ban. I don't know about you, but when a group stockpiles a huge cache of military weapons I would want the authorities to get involved. | |
emptywigHuh? What?Premium
join:2002-08-05
Pasadena, TX | reply to BVT
They shot cops. That's what got all those people killed. THEY shot cops. End of story.
They fact the guns were legal is a moot point. Even if EVERY gun was legal, its not legal to shoot cops, even if they're coming in on bogus charges.
wig
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Sometimes a paradox is just a paradox | |
 sweintzPremium
join:2002-03-01
Chester, CT | said by emptywig:They shot cops. That's what got all those people killed. THEY shot cops. End of story. They fact the guns were legal is a moot point. Even if EVERY gun was legal, its not legal to shoot cops, even if they're coming in on bogus charges. wig THEY only shot cops after cops opened fire on THEM first with automatic weapons. From a helicopter no less. | |
| I remember the footage. ATF was closing in on the compound and about to get in, but the first shots came from the compound. NOT the police. | |
| you are an idiot.
have you ever bothered watching some of the recent shows about this subject on the history or learning channel?
the government did totally mess up and they were climbing ONTO the property when they got shot.
too bad for them, i say. dont put the police and swat teams on a pedestal. they're just like you and i, doing our jobs. lets not get all emotional just because they "protect" us. they're not all heros. in fact most cops have serious inferiority complexes they inflict on the public on a daily basis.
what about that one cop that was supposedly babysitting but actually molesting the child? this guy was in the forces for at least a decade or two.
so yeah, they were "about to get in" but I would consider climing onto the roof and breaking a window open "getting in". | |
| That doesn't stop the fact that they shot at police officers. The warrants were issued. They knew the police were coming. They knew why the police were coming. Do you say it's okay for a drug dealer to shoot at DEA agents because they are coming into his property? Law abiding citizens don't shoot at law enforcement officers when they KNOW it's law enforcement officers.
Regardless of whether or not they felt they did nothing wrong, they did the wrong thing. I don't care who you are. Once you start shooting all bets are off.
And you call me the idiot? | |
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4 edits | reply to SRFireside
said by SRFireside:Now show proof the guns were purchased before the automatic weapons ban. I don't know about you, but when a group stockpiles a huge cache of military weapons I would want the authorities to get involved. I have a large cache of these weapons..all legally owned by me...And no, I don't need the military here to make sure I'm being good with them....thats what the background check was for...now Its MY business....
said by SRFireside:That doesn't stop the fact that they shot at police officers. The warrants were issued. They knew the police were coming. They knew why the police were coming. Do you say it's okay for a drug dealer to shoot at DEA agents because they are coming into his property? Law abiding citizens don't shoot at law enforcement officers when they KNOW it's law enforcement officers. Regardless of whether or not they felt they did nothing wrong, they did the wrong thing. I don't care who you are. Once you start shooting all bets are off. This part I agree with whole heartedly | |
| reply to SRFireside
said by SRFireside:said by BIGMIKE:The Waco Massacre ...This is the story that the FBI put out. It is a lie. The guns they had were legal. The local sheriff investigated and found no basis for complaints against them. Um... no. They had automatic weapons, which were illegal in Texas. No point in countering any of the other claims. NO, wrong answer
FACT: The ATF, submitted falsified evidence, in order to conduct a raid. The warrant contained 2 lies. The first lie, A meth lab was inside being used to manufacture drugs. The second lie, illegal arms trading was being conducted there, BOTH false allegations, which was proven in court.
FACT: The Davidians had no automatic weapons as reported by the liberal media press reports.
FACT: The ATF had the only automatic weapons, who were trained by Army Special Forces, WHO WERE present the day of the raid.
FACT: The ATF field agent conducting this raid, learned the raid was compromised, called the SAC to call it off. The idea to call off the raid was rejected by Clinton & Janet Reno, who ordered the assault into motion.
FACT: David Koresch jogged daily, they could have picked him up any time.
FACT:During the Congressional investigation of this botched raid. The ATF refused to produce the front door of the retreat, Stating, "we misplaced the evidence and can't find it."
FACT: The ATF went in shooting, which is why they refuse to produce the front door, which would incriminate themselves.
FACT: After pumping that place full of CS gas, ATF agents entered rear of building(off camera view) and opened fire, after emerging from an APC, that WAS firing during approach.
FACT: The ATF, never intended for anyone to come out alive. After pumping toxic and highly flammable levels of CS gas into the retreat.
The ATF, used an APC, breached the building in strategic locations, NOT to allow escape routes as claimed, but to ensure fire moved swiftly through the building. Did you notice the lack of fire trucks which were kept well away from the blaze?
The reason, CS gas burning in that inferno, when contacted by water, would have produce a very toxic gas cloud and the high winds that day would have swept that cloud over a populated area causing hundreds of more deaths.
FACT: BTW owning fully automatic weapons is not illegal. Provided one obtains a class III tax stamp and/or in addition with an FFL.
All liberals wanting to keep repeating lies as fact, go right ahead, repeat it often enough, maybe you'll believe it yourselves to be true. I on the other hand will keep countering your false lies with facts of truth.
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Bass....the glue of rhythm and harmony...the heartbeat of the band.! Shaking the earth with deep,sonorous vibrations.The dark ominous thunder of an approching storm. | |
| FACT: There is no way a law enforcement agency intended to kill off entire families. Give me a reason WHY they would do that for a simple little cult in Waco and then give me some EVIDENCE to prove it.
FACT: They still shot at law enforcement officers first. If they didn't fire a shot I'll pay even money on the odds that the ATF would never have fired a shot either. Like every other raid of this sort the objective is to be prepared for any hostilities. Looks like the other side wanted to kill so the ATF was right.
Yes this was a botched job by the ATF. Yes they went about it totally the wrong way. Yes Janet Reno was putting on a show for the press flexing her law enforcement muscles. And YES the Branch Davidians attacked the ATF agents before they entered the compound, giving Reno the perfect excuse to go to the extreme. IF the Davidians didn't fire a shot everybody would be alive right now. | |
 BIGMIKEPremium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA | Clear cut violations of the law.
The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed in 1878 after the end of Reconstruction. The Act was intended to prohibit Federal troops from supervising elections in former Confederate states. It generally prohibits Federal military personnel and units of the United States National Guard under Federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congress. The Posse Comitatus Act and the Insurrection Act substantially limit the powers of the Federal government to use the military for law enforcement.
The original act referred only to the United States Army. The Air Force was added in 1956, and the Navy and the Marine Corps have been included by a regulation of the Department of Defense. This law is often mentioned when it appears that the Department of Defense is interfering in domestic disturbances. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
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Type "miserable failure" in Google | |
| reply to SRFireside
"Now show proof the guns were purchased before the automatic weapons ban. I don't know about you, but when a group stockpiles a huge cache of military weapons I would want the authorities to get involved."
And, just WHAT was he going to do with a "stockpile" of weapons? Do what he did and try to defend himself? This business about weapons was only the governments excuse to raid the place, which they did without announcing their presence or presenting a warrant. Instead a ATF kill team went in and tried to sneak in and take control. They were discovers as prowlers and shot at which was, of course, the excuse for the seige.
Kill one of ours and we WILL get you, no matter what it takes, REGARDLESS of if we were wrong in the first place.
the other bottom line fact is that Koresh was in town every day, or running outside the compound and the sheriff could have scooped him up any time.
But they didn't want to do that. They wanted to do their usual gestapo crap and raid the place in full kill kit. Just scooping Koresh off the street would very likely have served to defuse the situation and lead to a peacefull surrender. | |
| reply to emptywig
"Even if EVERY gun was legal, its not legal to shoot cops, even if they're coming in on bogus charges."
Excuse me? It's not legal to prowl around peoples property in the middle of the night, out in rural Texas and climb up on the roof of the house then try to break in with a assault team without announcing yourself and the fact you have a warrant. They were arrogant and stupid and some of them paid for it with their lives.
I hate to tell you this, but cops are not the lilly white warriors you would like to believe they are. ESPECIALLY the federal ones who think they can do any damn thing they want to just because they are federal LEO's.
| |
| reply to SRFireside
"I remember the footage. ATF was closing in on the compound and about to get in, but the first shots came from the compound. NOT the police."
The assault team was discovered on the roof of the building and was fired upon. 3 agents were killed. They had not announced themselves, or, that they had a warrant. The people inside were within their rights to open fire as far as I am concerned. The police are supposed to announce they are police and have a warrant before attempting to break in. | |
 ROCINANTEOriginal Member 007Premium
join:1999-06-29
Hartsdale, NY | reply to guitarzan
Your facts are opinions until you produce official government documents from a .gov site and not from some circle-jerk conspiracy site. Haven't you ever written papers for school? You must cite your sources, and the sources must be credible.
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CRUNCH THIS! | |
BIGMIKEPremium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA | said by ROCINANTE:Your facts are opinions until you produce official government documents from a .gov site and not from some circle-jerk conspiracy site. Haven't you ever written papers for school? You must cite your sources, and the sources must be credible. Government Not Credible - Government Lies.
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Type "miserable failure" in Google | |
| reply to ROCINANTE
said by ROCINANTE: some circle-jerk conspiracy site. Haven't you ever written papers for school? You must cite your sources, and the sources must be credible. You will have to explain that circle jerk thang you got going on.
Now as for sources, google them up or better yet try the library of congress or the FOIA and independently verify, the facts you call opinions. OR look up the people named here for yourself. 
FACT: In a shoot-out erupting from a foolhardy publicity stunt launched by the Bureau 0f Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
against a religious retreat east of Waco, Texas. Nearly 100 people, most of them women and children, hid inside
for 51 days--besieged by helicopters, snipers and hundreds of federal agents, terrorized nightly with bright lights and high-volume audio torture.
FACT: After promising "patience", and the desire to "avoid further violence", an FBI commando unit attacked the Branch Davidian home with armored vehicles, ramming through the walls of the wood-frame structure and saturating the church building with the poisonous chemical CS. All but nine were slaughtered in the inferno that resulted.
FACT:On the 19th of April 1993 the nearly 90 deaths, most of them mothers, children or infants, would not have occurred had it not been for the ATF's shocking disregard for innocent life. The Gun Gestapo was willing to risk it all in a vainglorious show
of force, staged for television cameras, to arrest one man with no criminal convictions, Branch Davidian leader David Koresh, for ALLEGEDLY buying illegal gun parts. No one responsible has yet been called to account.
FACT:Two ATF raid commanders, Phil Chojnacki and Chuck Sarabyn, were fired after a Treasury Department report flayed them for lying and altering documents in an attempt to divert blame to a junior undercover agent. Chojnacki and Sarabyn, the two BATF scoundrels who headed up the biggest disaster in federal law enforcement history, Were fired on 26th, October for gross negligence, incompetence and falsifying official documents related to the Waco disaster.Both received a nice Christmas gift. They both got their jobs back, along with full back pay and benefits...This after eight months of administrative leave that amounted to a paid vacation. According to federal sources, Chojnacki and Sarabyn threatened to name names about what "really" happened.
Although technically demoted, each are receiving similar pay as when they were fired. The Treasury Department footed the bill for their lawyers. Chojnacki, a 24 year ATF veteran, is now the ATF liaison to the U.S. Customs Service in Houston. Sarabyn, is the chief of the visual information branch at ATF headquarters in Washington. One can only hope that when they go home to their kennels each night, their mothers bite them. They were rehired, when they threatened to expose the complicity of superiors. Keep that in mind as we look at the truth.
FACT:The Justice Department insists the FBI, which took command after the raid's bloody failure, is blameless in the final holocaust, claiming the Davidians set the fire and elected to remain inside in a suicide pact. The Davidians say the fire started when armored vehicles ran over and ruptured propane lanterns and stoves. Some say agents did so deliberately.
FACT: More than a dozen lawsuits were filed seeking more than $2 billion in damages. The junior undercover agent(Robert Rodriguez) has sued the ATF, while other agents have sued Waco news media for supposedly tipping off the Davidians. A Waco TV reporter sued out of town news organizations for their portrayal of his part in the coverage. And, of course, survivors, and the relatives of those slain, sued various high-ranking government officials, mid-level bureaucrats and many agents involved.
FACT: The most intriguing lawsuit was filed by former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark, now in private practice, on behalf of a number of Waco survivors and surviving families. It claimed that a secret contingent of the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team (HRT) infiltrated the building wearing closed-circuit breathing gear and shot Davidians already dead or disabled by the carbon monoxide and cyanide gases emitted when the CS riot control agent was heated by the spreading fire. A fireball that erupted during the inferno was not a ruptured propane cylinder, as the government arson report claims, but an incendiary bomb used to make sure everyone in the so called "bunker" was dead, the suit claims.
FACT: The walk in concrete vault with its steel reinforced walls was built in the 1950's to store church records. It had actually survived one fire, and became not a place to commit suicide, but a haven that church members knew would not burn.
This "killing team", as Clark's suit called it, allegedly entered the Mount Carmel center either in the rear, out of sight of the news media, or was discharged inside the building and picked up five minutes later by one or more of the Combat Engineer Vehicles (CEVs).
FACT: These vehicles repeatedly rammed the same locations of the building in the 40 minutes before noon and even after the fire had started, collapsing all stair cases. FBI agent R.J. Craig, driving the first CEV to hit the building at about 0600, admitted in testimony that his assignment on the first penetration was to collapse debris over a trap door "to try to keep people from running down" into a buried school bus that led to an unfinished tornado shelter.
In a building with 11 exit doors and 82 windows, it is interesting that the FBI felt the need to create avenues of escape for Davidians who might want to leave. The giant holes knocked in the building by FBI armor, Ramsey"s suit argues, were not escape routes, but ventilation ducts, carefully designed to spread fire as quickly as possible, taking advantage of the prevailing 30MPH winds. NOT ONE survivor came out any of the holes smashed open by CEVs. Nor did the FBI intend for them to, Ramsey contends.
FACT: Orthocholorbenzylidene malononitrile is the chemical name for CS lachrymator gas, its common name is derived from B.B. Corson and R.W. Stoughton, the two chemists who invented it in 1928. Despite assurances from Attorney General Janet Reno that CS was a safe riot control agent, she neglected to mention that Aldrich Chemical, which makes CS, quit selling the product to the Israeli Defense Forces after Amnesty International documented the CS-related deaths of 40 Palestinians, including 18 babies less than a year old.
FACT: U.S. soldiers are forbidden from using it against enemies in battle without an executive order signed by the president. This might explain Reno's call to President Bill Clinton two days before the fire.
Aldrich Chemical warns in is literature that CS SHOULD NOT BE USED IN CLOSED SPACES and that "the chemical, physical and toxicological properties have not been thoroughly investigated". Aldrich also cautions users that relatively low heat causes the crystalline powder to break down and release deadly carbon monoxide (CO) and hydrogen cyanide(HCN) gases.
FACT: two-thirds of the bodies autopsied from the Waco fire contained these lethal gases, according to toxicology reports.
Two other chemicals turned up in the lungs of Waco fire victims: Acetone and ethanol. Coincidentally, both are carrier agents in which CS is dissolved for more effective dispersal.
Acetone and ethanol are also extremely volatile and flammable---excellent accelerants for starting a very hot, fast spreading fire or vapor explosion. Justice Department investigators said FBI agents used relatively inert carbon dioxide gas to facilitate the spraying of CS from the armored vehicles. But the presence of acetone and ethanol in the lungs of so many of the fire victims suggests the FBI may have been mistaken. It could also explain why sheets of flame flashed through Mount Carmel at such terrifying speed.
In the opinion of Dr. George F. Uhlig, a retired Air Force colonel who is now a mathematician and chemical engineer. "The CS was diluted with either acetone or ethanol, as the autopsies indicated both solvents were in the lungs of the individuals killed...The liquid aerosol obviously was of the correct particle size, came into contact with a flame and the flame front traveled from particle to particle rapidly. to create the fireball described by survivors. We used a similar concept in designing Fuel Air Explosive (FAE) devices in the Air Force....
"While the flame front in the case of the branch Davidian complex did not generate the overpressure of fuel-air explosive devices, the results were similar," the college professor stated in a letter to David Hall, owner of KPOC-TV in Ponca City, Oklahoma, which produced a documentary on the Waco massacre. "The structure burned rapidly to the ground and the CS agent was burned in the process...to generate hydrogen cyanide gas. It was probably a good decision on the part of the federal agents on the scene not to attempt to put out the fire using water".
"The resulting steam generated...would further generate hydrogen cyanide and the resulting cloud of cyanide gas and steam could have been carried on the prevailing winds over populated areas." Uhlig wrote. "CS is said to be nonlethal UNLESS dispensed into a confined space. The hydrogen cyanide from 40-50 (Ferret) cartridges, each containing 12.5 grams of CS, would generate sufficient hydrogen cyanide gas just in being fired in the prescribed manner to kill people in a confined space."
"The use of 40-50 Ferret cartridges is clearly outside the range of possibilities," he wrote, apparently not realizing at the time that the FBI had fired a few hundred Ferret rounds into Mount Carmel. "They never considered federal agents would use 55 gallon drums of CS (powder, for sprayers on the armored vehicles), dilute it and then fill a structure with the resulting aerosol.
If 500 grams of CS, less than a quart of the agent, generates sufficient hydrogen cyanide from just being fired normally to kill people in confined spaces, think about the results of filling a structure with CS from 55 gallon drums and then igniting it. Marvelous way to kill people, if that is your intent"
Uhlig's expert analysis casts in a new light the FBI's refusal to allow fire trucks near the blaze until nothing was left except smoldering rubble. The FBI claims the firemen were in danger from gunfire by the Branch Davidians, the same reason the FBI used to explain its hastly demolition and intense gassing of the building..
But all fire survivors consistently deny shooting at the armored vehicles or anyone else, A CLAIM BOLSTERED BY VIDEOTAPE taken during the gassing and demolition operation, which shows FBI agents standing unprotected, individually and in groups, in close proximity to the building. The lack of preparation for a fire that the FBI should have anticipated is problematic.
In the standard manual for special weapons and tactics teams (FM-1698) the section dealing with the use of riot control agents such as CS specifically warns planners to "be aware of the fact that some gas projectiles will burn, while others will explode. Be prepared for the eventuality of a fire".
Yet the Justice Department's investigation, which exonerated itself and the FBI, states on page 274, "When Ms. Reno asked about the availability of emergency vehicles, she was concerned about helicopters and other medical evacuation capabilities, not fire trucks."
Even without fire trucks, the FBI could have used equipment on hand to prepare for a fire. The CEVs used in the gassing and demolition operation are designed for and come FACTORY-EQUIPPED with high pressure water pumps for fire fighting. New techniques for this equipment were developed for fighting the Kuwaiti oil-well fires during the Gulf War. Yet the FBI did not rig the CEVs for fire fighting.
More troubling, though, is the revelation that the FBI and ATF were offered, in writing, the use of armored, remote controlled, heavy-duty fire fighting equipment, which would have eliminated the necessity of exposing fire fighters to gunfire,IF the Davidians had been shooting.
Jan Bezucha Vaclav of the Flamechek Corp. in Santa Paula, California offered the company's model 55. Made in the Czech Republic and based on a T-55 tank chassis, it has remote sensor video cameras, flood lights and a rotating water/foam cannon capable of delivering 600 gallons of foam or water per minute, all radio controlled. Flamechek's offer was declined.
That refusal apparently was not based on aversion to robotic equipment. FBI planners accepted the offer of a Defense Department contractor, who happens to be a former FBI agent, for three Surrogate Tele-operated Vehicles (STVs), according to a letter released by the Pentagon under the Freedom of Information Act. According to a letter dated 10 March 1993 and signed by General Jimmy D. Ross, commanding general of the U.S. Army Materiel Command, the STV "is a prototype, remotely controlled ground vehicle..designed for battlefield surveillance and reconnaissance operations."
The STV has daylight and night vision video cameras, forward looking infrared imaging sensors, a video recorder and two-way voice communications, the generals letter states. Funded by Army research and development funds, the three STVs were provided to the FBI in Waco with an on site operator, technicians, logistical support, a Marine Corps major and an Army captain. All were delivered with the comforting assurance that the "personnel have been briefed in restrictions on military involvement in civil law enforcement."
The FBI also sought other high-tech gadgetry for use in Waco. FBI agents spent two days trying to convince a Russian scientist to let the FBI test the Russian's acoustic mind control device on the Branch Davidians, according to Defense Electronics magazine. The FBI received closed door briefings in northern Virgina on 17-19 March from Dr. Igor Smirnov of the Moscow Medical Academy, the reputable trade publication reported. Also present were members of the CIA, the Defense Intelligence Agency and the Advanced Research Projects Agency.
"FBI officials were briefed on the Russian's decade long research on a computerized acoustic device allegedly capable of implanting thoughts in a persons mind without that person being aware of the source of the thought." the article said. Dr. Smirnov declined to help, because much of the necessary hardware was in Russia. The American rights to the Russian technology have been bought by Psychotechnologies Corp. of Richmond,Virginia.
Once the civil trials began, the FBI and ATF had much more mundane matters to explain. Such as the abundance of evidence, including government witnesses who testified at the Brach Davidian trial in San Antonio, that agents in helicopters rained indiscriminate fire down on people inside Mount Carmel. The feds continue to deny this, yet a 28th February Army letter released under a Freedom of Information Act confirms that airborne gunfire was at least considered, before and after the raid. In an FBI request for the first of several Army helicopters, the FBI promised the Army that "if the aircraft are used in an assault role, U.S. Army markings will be obscured."
DESTROYED EVIDENCE:
There is the matter of the missing right half of Mount Carmel's front door, which in video footage clearly shows the numerous entry holes made by ATF bullets in the initial raid. There are other questions about evidence destroyed by the government, like the FBI's decision to bulldoze the Mount Carmel site before any independent arson investigators could verify the government's highly questionable findings.
Or why the FBI "caused the refrigeration to be cut off at the morgue in Fort Worth without notice to" Davidian relatives, Clark's suit alleged, "causing remains of deceased church members to disintegrate in order to destroy evidence of the cause of death."
As in the Randy Weaver trial, there also appears to be a significant amount of evidence that was tampered with by the ATF or FBI. Examples: The video that ATF claimed would conclusively prove who started the gunfight was mysteriously ruined; the 11 audio surveillance devices planted by the FBI inside Mount Carmel all miraculously malfunctioned at the same time, which happened to be about five minutes before the fire started: almost five minutes of tape from the FBI's FLIR video is unaccounted for, also in the time frame leading up to the fire. Some Davidians, such as Rita Riddle, say several church members, including her brother Jimmy, were gunned down behind the gymnasium during this time period, and their bodies bulldozed back into the building just prior to the fire.
Ironically, the only meaningful forum held to publicly air grievances and probe the profoundly disturbing implications of the Waco massacre was a coroner's inquest held in Manchester, England. Twenty three of the dead Davidians were British citizens.
Then, President Clinton had steadfastly ignored the call for a national commission to review the policies and practices of Federal law enforcement agencies, including the improper use of deadly force, the adoption of military tactics and use of military equipment and the direct involvement of military personnel. The concerted was all the more remarkable and Clinton's refusal all the more damning......because it originated from a broad based coalition of 10 liberal and conservative organizations championing political rights and individual liberties, from the ACLU and National Association f Criminal Defense lawyers, to the Independence Institute, Second Amendment Foundation and National Rifle Association..
All in all, a massive cover up, and these agency's, one hand washing the other, including the pitiful claim of child abuse Janet Reno, used to justify the final assault.
Look and see how deep the rabbit hole goes, next up is documented proof of military involvement...Names, places, dates and proof this raid was planned months in advance, stay tuned.
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Bass....the glue of rhythm and harmony...the heartbeat of the band.! Shaking the earth with deep,sonorous vibrations.The dark ominous thunder of an approching storm. | |
| reply to Fatal Vector
said by Fatal Vector:They had not announced themselves, or, that they had a warrant. The people inside were within their rights to open fire as far as I am concerned. The police are supposed to announce they are police and have a warrant before attempting to break in. They were shot at before making their entry. The way a SWAT entry is done is that you get all your men prepared before making your entry. They were shot at before this was done, which means they didn't get a chance to make the announcement. Either way they were ready for a fight and drew first blood. You can easily turn this around and say the Davidian camp didn't announce their intent either.
This impending assault was in the news for Pete's sake. How can they NOT know they were coming. Do you have anything to back up the claim that the Davidians didn't have any prior warning that the law was coming? | |
| Nope, still wrong, Koresh , actually opened the door to meet the agents, who opened fire on him, wounding him, before ducking back inside closing the door. There actually were helicopters firing down upon the Davidians.
Here is link to testimony given in the hearings looking at this massacre.
»www.firearmsandliberty.com/waco.···cre.html
it is a long read, covering every thing.Naming names of agents and Treasury officials and agents involved.
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Bass....the glue of rhythm and harmony...the heartbeat of the band.! Shaking the earth with deep,sonorous vibrations.The dark ominous thunder of an approching storm. | |
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