Re: Right On Alice in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r17338284 en Fri, 04 Dec 2009 06:52:07 EDT Fri, 04 Dec 2009 06:52:07 EDT Re: Right On Alice http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17360184 JTRockville : Perhaps you should research the different vehicles municipal systems use for funding. They're not all funded the same way.

Do you use the USPS? Have they put UPS, FedEx, or DHL out of business yet?

Do you use public schools? Have they put private schools out of business yet?

Private enterprise failures cost taxpayers money too, but taxpayers don't share the profit if they're successful.

Who's trying to set the price of private service anyway? Private companies are always free to gouge customers whatever the market will bear, whether or not there is a municipal system in place. The gouging has gone on for so long, people would like an alternative, and in many places we're willing to build it ourselves.

Don't like it? Then don't move to an area with a municipal system. But there are plenty of others who will come when it's built, so I doubt you'll be missed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17360184 Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:01:06 EDT Re: Right On Alice http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17358278 truedalife : I always see you posting about everything, but know very little. City bonds are used in projects like this with interest paid at what ever the current FED rate is. The Cities Bond money is returned and grows a little in the process. People kill me with this "making CEO's rich" BS.

Once again, this is a free market economy. You start a business, you put in hard work, and pray for success. Just because you started a business, doesn't mean you'll be successful. In order to succeed, the business playing field should be non-bias. There are fair and unfair advantages in business.

Fair is finding a cheap supplier for your goods, maybe you'll pass the saving on or maybe you won't and take a higher profit. That's a normal American business practice.

Unfair is a Government getting involved in a free market business. The Government can streamline any legal process that a normal business entrepreneur could not. Utilizing any City agency in there project including the legal department. The City can also amend any law (like the franchise agreement) if it feels the law wouldn't work for them. Without any lobbying and sometimes without any knowledge to the people it serves. If the business fails, the cost to the tax payers could be high. And there has been allot of Cable, Telco and Broadband companies now bankrupt. The Government can undercut any other business in it's market with such advantages.

CEO's salaries are voted by a board and approved by the stock holders. They pay someone like Jeffrey Immelt, the CEO of GE, all that money because he is a genius when it comes to business. GE generates over $15 Billion dollars in earnings. There stock is highly recommended in any portfolio. And someone who doesn't understand a free market system would say what you did. Jeffrey Immelt salary for one year was close to 4 million, and under his watch the business took in $15 billion in earnings. His salary is only 2% of the total earnings. Sounds fair to me!

Who the hell are we to tell a business what they feel is the fair price for the service. If you can do it cheaper and better than why aren't you in business? Why? Because you take no action in life and instead complain about everyone else's business. Verizon, Comcast, AT&T, or whoever sets there prices based on there business plan. Smart shoppers research before they buy and your market drives your prices.

If I am the only person with apples in your town I can set my price. Someone else comes in and may set the price the same as my apples but may have a juicier apple. Or under cut me if his production cost is low enough too. No one is going to under cut there own cost. Except Sony and the PS3, which there stock has taken a hit for that. But Sony has deep pockets and the old PS2 slim is still selling at a good profit margin. And soon a price war will being with the Xbox 360 cutting it's price. That's how real American businesses work you commies.
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"Always in the Need for Speed."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17358278 Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:08:53 EDT Re: Right On Alice http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17345790 JTRockville : When communities DIY, they follow the same rules (including fees) that the private sector does.

The only difference is that their service is non-profit (so your question of who gets the profit in that case is moot).

But here's a follow-up question to you: if cities follow your suggestion, and fund private sector deployment, will the city share in the profit? Or do you suggest the city only shares the cost but not the profit?

I don't believe our countrymen shed their blood so that CEOs could get rich.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17345790 Sun, 26 Nov 2006 16:01:29 EDT Re: Right On Alice http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17342122 truedalife : That's why franchise agreements are needed and have shown to work. At Comcast our agreements state we are to serve the communities in which the agreement is signed. We go into the public housing projects, even thou they cost the company money with all the stealing of service and damage to the lock boxes.

Look, any City can lay fiber down cheaper than any other company. That's how most City contracts are awarded, to the lowest bidder. The City wouldn't have to pay a right of access fee, which is in any agreement in which a company wants to utilize sidewalks, fairways and easements. Governments have no business in free market businesses.

In China, the Government owns all the businesses. In Cuba, the Government owns all the businesses. In North Korea, the Government owns all the businesses. In Russia, the Government owns all the businesses. In those countries, the Government has the largest stake in your company. This is the USA people.

The City should instead encourage broadband companies to build newer networks. This can be done by streamlining the permit and franchise process, so it's easy to get the project started without all the red tape. Lessen the franchise fee so smaller companies can get in and build. That's how football stadiums are built. The NFL will bully the City for all kinds of concessions. Sometime the NFL gets City bond money to build the stadium, so that none of the team owners money is even used.

The Gas station thing was a good point. Companies are into business to make a profit. Would any of you start a business in which everyday you knew you were going to take a lost? So, since we live in a free market society, Exxon, Amoco, Shell or whoever are all in it to make money. For the company, the CEO and the stock holders.

Now here comes the City of Baltimore let's say, and the City wants cheaper energy for there residents. So they take 30 million let's say and they open there own oil company. The City of Baltimore builds those refineries that other oil companies wouldn't build. And sell gas at Cost, for they can't truly be a for Profit company. Who would the profit goto??? They used my tax money to build the oil company, so do I get a check back if they were to profit???

There is a conflict of interest here people. Plus, that's an estimate of $26 million. Construction over cost (which they always to), damage claims and other miscellaneous items that come with new construction projects. Anyone ever heard of the Boston Tunnel project???

What would happen to all the other Gas stations??? With City Gas so cheap, why would we go anywhere else. No one would open a Gas station in Baltimore City, and the other stations would close. Not fair to business. The Government is suppose to collect taxes to provide Government services. Government services are police, schools, trash removal, etc...

What will the Government collect in taxes when Time Warner moves out because of unfair competition in that City. Quest folds up into Bankruptcy. 1000 of jobs lost just so I can have a City owned triple play for $90 dollars or less. Bull Shit and that's not what our countrymen bled and died for.
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"Always in the Need for Speed."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17342122 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:29:55 EDT Re: Right On Alice http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17340606 JTRockville : I wouldn't say they situation on New York is one to be admired. It takes more than two providers for a market to function.

And yes, I agree - maybe government should take over all the markets that aren't functioning. If people need it, and the market isn't providing it, why shouldn't we do it ourselves? Is there some law that says we must do without things if a corporation won't serve us?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17340606 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 16:03:06 EDT Re: Right On Alice http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17340430 grcore :
said by truedalife See Profile :

Local Government has no business venturing off into free enterprise businesses. Yes for you non Yale grads, broadband is a free enterprise business.
But what you fail to see is that there are areas that are not served, or under served. You comparison to gasoline is bogus because there is adequate supply available for them.

In many areas there are municipal services that work well in delivering a products normally provided by "free enterprise", why not digital service?

Or perhaps you are a shill for the monopolies?

You can't get a pothole filled, or your sidewalk fixed. But if the officials that you elected for your local government can't deal with those issues, then I can see why you might be opposed. But there are places with a competent voting constituency, who elect competent officials. Maybe its time to a little housecleaning?

g]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17340430 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 15:25:37 EDT Re: Right On Alice http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17338899 Topmounter : I expect that they think running a BSP is no different than running the municipal water system.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17338899 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 09:42:41 EDT Re: Right On Alice http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17338284 truedalife : Everyone thinks this is great news, but it's not. I truly hate you Data Ho. Local Government has no business venturing off into free enterprise businesses. Yes for you non Yale grads, broadband is a free enterprise business.

People need food to survive, so why do the government just build us there own grocery stores (with the tax payers money of course) undercutting Giants and Safeway (and I truly hate Giants). We need Gas to get to work and we want it cheaply, let's stick it to Exxon and BP Amoco by having your local government build us cheaper Gas stations. You know the Government can ship it less costly than some Fortune 500 company can. And refine it cheaper, without all those EPA rules.

Maybe the Government can take over all the lines of business in the United States. I heard they have good benefits. Everything would be cheap, wouldn't it? Anyone see a problem hear??? Local Governments have an unfair advantage in business.

Who do they pay taxes to?? Do they have stock holders to answer to??? Are they a for profit company??? Non-profit or what??? They can under cut any communication company, even if it's a loss. They do like any other Government program and take money from Paul to Pay Peter. That $26 million could have went back into the pockets of those hard working men and women of that Cities who pay taxes.

Speeds will upgrade when networks are truly ready. Without a true Net neutrality bill, broadband rates maybe headed upwards. OC backbones are already reaching capacity. Networks and the equipment associated cost money to run and need real time responses. I can't get my pot holes filed, or my sidewalks repaired it a timely manor. Do I truly want a triple play from my local Government???

deregulation and new companies being encouraged to start there broadband networks is the way to go. Look at New York and the broadband wars going on up there. It's a win, win for the consumer. That's good business in a free economy market. That's what America is about. Less Government not another missed managed state program. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17338284 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 02:49:35 EDT Re: Right On Alice http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17335562 God : one hell of a way to help out the community ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17335562 Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:26:30 EDT Right On Alice http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17335272 JTRockville : If "they" don't build it, DIY.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17335272 Fri, 24 Nov 2006 15:23:37 EDT