Re: Buying competitor's company in Wireless Service Providers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r17352360 en Sun, 06 Dec 2009 02:35:02 EDT Sun, 06 Dec 2009 02:35:02 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17376850 PersComp : Cropsey.....that even sounds a little "piraty"!! :D
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Are these instructions or corrections???]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17376850 Fri, 01 Dec 2006 08:28:01 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17375478 Rhaas : *Quickly looks at google maps to confirm harmetp is no where near my network.

We've been offered several networks, but thus far we've not jumped. The majority have some major issues and would require more effort than they were worth to fix the issues.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17375478 Thu, 30 Nov 2006 23:12:24 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17375137 harmetp : I suggest you paint anything you use in your wisp business (vehicles, laptop, anything large) black and put the 'jolly roger' on everything. Then go around and shoot down your competitor's antennas (this may take some practice before heading out). At this point you should call him up using a 'piraty' voice (perhaps reviewing some old monty python shows would help) and suggest that he either leave or be forced to walk the plank. I suggest being rather vague about what walking the plank is as it is most likely to be considered a threat and running a wisp from the county jail is not handy especially dressed as a pirate (though they probably have high speed internet now!).

Just another point of view,

argggghh!

Pat]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17375137 Thu, 30 Nov 2006 22:16:58 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17374427 VariableARK : Equis -- agreed after 100 I am seeing about the same, 4 per week.

However, this might be a faster way for you to get to 100 gmcintire?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17374427 Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:39:26 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17373108 PersComp : It sure seems to work that way for my PC shop. After 2 years, I am slammed with work and only work from a shop behind my house. It is hard to tell about my wireless customers (since I only have 4). It may take a while before the odds of them talking to someone comes up...lol
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Are these instructions or corrections???]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17373108 Thu, 30 Nov 2006 17:30:18 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17372807 Equis : I wouldn't do it, unless it was dirt cheap.

If you have a good product and a fair price you will get more clients on your own.

I have found after 100 word of mouth brings in about 4 a week (just fine for me)

:-)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17372807 Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:47:59 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17367874 slipstream1 : Can anyone say NON-COMPETE CLAUSE. Make sure if you do this he cannot come back with another company and use his knowledge of the area to undermine you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17367874 Wed, 29 Nov 2006 22:05:23 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17363046 LLigetfa : My first thought was that with the POPs, as in realty location is everything, but if two of them would become redundant, that diminishes the value. If their infrastructure is in bad shape, you run the risk of dragging down your reputation and be financially over-extended from the acquisition and not able to forklift upgrade it at a leasurely pace.

The only concern about not moving on the offer, is that someone else that can better manage it may buy it and become a fierce competitor.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17363046 Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:54:59 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17362325 keefe007 : You could just wait for that company to go out of business naturally or help the process a bit by targeting their customers. It may sound bad but business is business. They'd steal any and all of your customers if they had the chance. No matter to who or what you are selling you're always stealing someone's customer.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17362325 Wed, 29 Nov 2006 02:38:39 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17360512 Keithb : Is his customers where they can hit your existing tower? Any way of buying out just his customer base?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17360512 Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:51:03 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17360331 gpilot : I'm curious to see how much he is asking?

Not exact fiqures but:

1- under 5k
2- under 20k
3 - under 50k

You dont want to take a large bank loan out for a bag of worms. however it may also be worth the risk to make you a small guy to a large player in the area.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17360331 Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:24:44 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17357473 VariableARK : When I was smaller I bought a company that was larger than myself and it was a good decision, although risky. The installs of the bought company were decent, and the equipment and setup at the main tower was quite good. The main things I would look at would be, the bandwidth usage of the other company(is this company going to be using so much bandwidth you are going to need a second t1?), customer satisfaction(doesn't sound so good), and how easy it will be to switchout the equipment you want and convert his network over to yours. I also would look at how compatible his rates/prices are with yours.

Good luck!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17357473 Tue, 28 Nov 2006 13:08:34 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17353270 gmcintire : Very wise advice John, thanks. I know he wants out and wants to sell to someone local. The neighboring WISP I've worked with in the past would sell if someone offered them the right price, so I know they wouldn't go after it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17353270 Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:59:56 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17352912 gmcintire : Thanks for everyone providing input so far, it's helped quite a bit.

PersComp: Thanks for the advice. My wife and I are on great terms and we don't ever do anything without discussing it with each other. I've seen plenty of marriages fail, especially due to money issues, so I avoid conflicts at all costs.

He had used some older Tranzeo and Senao gear in the past and told me the newer stuff is "custom" 250mW w/15 dBi rootenna (he didn't define "custom"). It's not bad gear, but my entire existing network is all on 5.x GHz and his is 2.4 GHz. The CPEs I've seen (mostly from clients switching to my service) were installed fairly well, although not going that extra mile (using home depot "outdoor" wire, etc).

One thing I've thought about is I have two tower sites within 1/2 mile from two of his (unplanned, one is my parents place and the other is my land with my tower). So a migration from the leased tower spaces to my owned towers would save on overhead and avoid lease issues. My existing stuff is all sectorized and done properly (separate backhaul, etc).

I had a credit card merchant account but ended up canceling it a few weeks ago because it wasn't worth it to pay 10-20% of my total income in payment processing.

McWizzard:
He's told me he wants to sell because of increased business in Arlington, which is about an hour and a half from me. He started with an existing business (VoIP, consulting, etc) and expanded into wireless while I started from scratch. I purposely limited my marketing to limit my growth so I can keep my expenses low. As I said, I haven't gotten any outside money, so funds are always limited. I haven't spent every spare cent on my WISP (although it seems like it at times). I'd hate to market like crazy and get a flood of incoming requests I can't service for several weeks. I started my business in the first place because I knew I could provide better service and support than the other local WISPs.

Thanks again for everyone's input so far. I told him I'd call in a few days after I looked over some of my stuff.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17352912 Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:10:30 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17352360 McWizzard : I've got a couple of my own questions, if you don't mind.

1) The first thing that jumps out at me is why is he/she selling their business? If he doesn't have positive cash flow with 70 accounts, how does that help you?

2) You stated that the competitor started a few months before you, but has 7x the number of accounts you have. What has he/she done to grow their business that much faster than yours?

3) Something to consider. If your competitor is interested in selling, they might not be making any money. If that's the case, it's possible if you do nothing but continue to grow your business and provide better service/support - you may get those 70 accounts for a lot less than buying his business.

Keep us posted]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17352360 Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:48:34 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17351203 ponline : I would buy his company only if his clients have good and professionally installed CPEs.
I would give him the price that is worth only for buying those 70 costumers.
Then I would upgrade his 4 pops with my own design, and adapt them to my network. It could cost me around 800-1000$ for a POP with two sectors and I would have 70 new happy costumers in my network for about a weak :p
But then again, in your situation as a start up WISP, its dificult decidion to make.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17351203 Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:51:10 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17351068 forward1 : Some of the others have already said it in one form or implied it but here it is again:

When you buy his company, you get his problems, obligations and commitments, decision baggage and unhappy customers. Make sure you can handle all of those. Whoever buys him up will have the same issues so it doesn't matter if they are bigger because they will have to put in that much work and money and so on.

His main assets (if you want to call them that) are his customers and tower locations since it sounds like you don't like his equipment. Ask yourself when you think he will fail and how many of his customers you can get as he spirals down should you choose not to him out. That might be a good way of growing under YOUR controlled pace. Your current customers that were converts from his service is your best source of info.

If you do say that you can handle his issues, problems etc, ask to see his cash flow statement and other numbers before you even agree to a price. After all, if he has lousy numbers you'd better offer a lower price and vice versa. Ask to see his contracts with his clients and the tower locations because you need to know how long they are for and how much and what your rights are.

Sketch out a business plan (for after purchase) for the next 6 to 12 months after acquisition and project expenses for your equipment replacement, additional BW costs, retraining etc. Then look at those projections and see if you can handle them based on the revenue etc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17351068 Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:30:05 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17350753 Chele : For better or worse, you know what you have when you build it yourself. You have no idea what his network is like. You will have to upgrade the network if his gear is the home-brew variety, and you won't be able to get cash from the customers since they already paid the install fee. You will adapt to your business's needs as you grow, it will be a heck of a shock to your lifestyle if you go from 10 to 80 customers overnight! People tend to over-value what they have(I know I do). There is a good chance he would want way more than the company is worth, unless he is desperate and offers you a great deal.

Make arrangements to accept credit cards, get away from the paper bills. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17350753 Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:40:57 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17350701 John Galt :
said by gmcintire See Profile :

However, right now I see my survival based on either buying out the other company or working on growing my own very rapidly, both of which require capital I don't have.
The proverbial "rock and a hard place"...

Since he approached you it would seem to indicate that he is wanting to escape from his particular situation. Perhaps you could arrange a phased payment to him and a loan to do the most obvious system upgrades (sectorization and such).

A sharp pencil and an eagle eye would be two valuable assets at this point in time.
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A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17350701 Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:31:45 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17350684 PersComp :
said by superdog See Profile :

I would sit down and talk with the wife or any other person whose life this will affect and see if they are also ready for the commitment required to make this work?.
Don't overlook this point. There is a big difference between being willing work the hours to put in the effort and being unable to be there for your wife, kids, or other family. My wife got very tired of going to bed alone every night because I was up working until midnight! I was also unable to go to my sons baseball and soccer games either. This was mainly due to my PC shop and had very little to do with wireless (other than me hanging out here until late at night :D) I have made a commitment to her to not expand any more quickly than WE can handle it (not just ME).
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Are these instructions or corrections???]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17350684 Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:28:37 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17350655 gmcintire : Yes, my wife is a full-time elementary school teachers and I work part-time (5-6 hours a day, I'm off by noon to 1-ish) doing support for an online learning company. Our day jobs are how I've been able to finance my existing business.

My current billing system is totally manual with quickbooks, which isn't bad with less than 10 customers but would kill me with 80. The other business has a PowerNOC automatic billing system for his customers (he had used sputnik in the past.)

I'd handle the tech support myself and have a few contractors to handle new installs. I know how much work it is already, and I'm willing to handle it.

What I'd really hate to have happen is another larger company buying out his company, fixing everything, then totally clobbering me. I've done well so far with offering slightly lower prices and better service (and support) to clients, along with referral incentives.

However, right now I see my survival based on either buying out the other company or working on growing my own very rapidly, both of which require capital I don't have.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17350655 Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:24:21 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17350509 superdog :
said by gmcintire See Profile :

I guess I'm basically just looking for anyone else's input. As I said, I don't have capital lying around, so I'd most likely need to get a small business loan to do the acquisition. This is my first business and the thought of doing anything high-dollar right now makes me very nervous.
Besides the question John Galt asked, my question would be How are You going to handle tech support and billing etc?. If this network You want to acquire is in bad shape, keep in mind that You will need to upgrade it, AND deal with all of the support calls until You can get it fixed. Once You figure the time and total cash flow needed to make this venture work, I would sit down and talk with the wife or any other person whose life this will affect and see if they are also ready for the commitment required to make this work?. Something tells me that this will be a pretty big bite to swallow?. :uhh:
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»www.wavecrazy.net Join WISPA today! »www.wispa.org/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17350509 Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:00:59 EDT Re: Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17350376 John Galt : Do you have a "day job"...?
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A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17350376 Mon, 27 Nov 2006 12:40:21 EDT Buying competitor's company http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17350367 gmcintire : My only direct competitor approached me a few weeks ago about wanting to sell his company.

A quick background first. I started deploying customers about May/June of this year and am still very small with less than 10 paying customers. There are a few more than that on the service, but they are friends/family. I'm a technical guy and the only business sense I've learned has been "on the job" getting my company rolling, although I know enough to keep myself out of trouble. I've kept my business small up to this point because I just don't have the capital to drop on more than a few CPEs at a time. I've been entirely self-funded without any loans.

My competitor has ~70 clients across 4 towers and has been in business for a few months longer than me. His network has been very poor in the past, using omnis at all towers and having backhauls on 2.4 GHz. I've already gotten a few converts fleeing his service. He's worked to improve it lately, but I have not talked to any of his current customers recently to know if it's improved.

I guess I'm basically just looking for anyone else's input. As I said, I don't have capital lying around, so I'd most likely need to get a small business loan to do the acquisition. This is my first business and the thought of doing anything high-dollar right now makes me very nervous.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17350367 Mon, 27 Nov 2006 12:38:24 EDT