 DaMaGeINCThe Lan ManPremium
join:2002-06-08
Greenville, SC
kudos:2 | piff $150 per outlet my ass.. I went to home depot and spent not even $10 on outlet hardware, and wired one up myself in my closet for my servers. |
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 n1zukBreak out the checkbookPremium
join:2001-10-24
Malta
kudos:2 | Heavy duty commercial codes. Outlet, box, wire, and labor for licensed electrician. We're talking VERY high traffic area.
How long to you think your closet wiring job would last with dozens of people each day plugging, unplugging, and generally abusing your wiring?
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DaMaGeINCThe Lan ManPremium
join:2002-06-08
Greenville, SC
kudos:2 | Your right, but that is some inflated cost still. |
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 John GaltForward, MarchPremium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:3 | said by DaMaGeINC:Your right, but that is some inflated cost still. Apparently you do not know anything about it...but thanks for taking the time to post anyway.
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DaMaGeINCThe Lan ManPremium
join:2002-06-08
Greenville, SC
kudos:2 | Thats why people post and inquire about things. To find out. True ignorence is those who dont ask questions and stay in the dark about things. So Thank you, Apparently you dont know anything either. |
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He does know something about it, he knows its a union job. They prob have 10 people to work on one outlet, and they charge by weight, color, how much they sweat during install.
That is absurd amount to charge no matter how you figure it. |
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John GaltForward, MarchPremium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:3 | said by markopoleo:He does know something about it... I have worked in many airports before. It is not a simple matter to just "run some wires". There are MANY impediments to construction in an operational airport.
That is what makes it so expensive.
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I don't know anything either, but a quick check of my local yellow pages (actually useful for something) shows a big splashy ad that says "min $75 for new outlet on exiting circuit". It also lists a few other common items like new 220v outlets, etc. At least it gives you a ball park idea. Still, those are truck roll one off prices, I'm sure volume pricing during construction must be a lot cheaper. |
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John GaltForward, MarchPremium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:3 | said by dublin00:I don't know anything either, but a quick check of my local yellow pages (actually useful for something) shows a big splashy ad that says "min $75 for new outlet on exiting circuit". It also lists a few other common items like new 220v outlets, etc. At least it gives you a ball park idea. Still, those are truck roll one off prices, I'm sure volume pricing during construction must be a lot cheaper. Those are also residential prices...and stated as a minimum.
There is a lot more to an electrical system than just "plugs"...and that adds to the total quoted cost.
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wev567
join:2006-02-25
Pittsburgh, PA | reply to dublin00
said by dublin00:I'm sure volume pricing during construction must be a lot cheaper. Right, $150 per for new construction. But most airports were built decades before everyone needed to plug in, and to retrofit costs money. Not just for the actual plug, but for running the wire to the plug, fishing it thru, getting enough juice to the panel to feed yer laptop and whatever industrial motor the janitor may accidentially plug in to it when scrubing the floors. Not quite a "min $75 for new outlet on existing circuit". |
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RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1
1 edit | reply to markopoleo
said by markopoleo:He does know something about it, he knows its a union job. They prob have 10 people to work on one outlet, and they charge by weight, color, how much they sweat during install. That is absurd amount to charge no matter how you figure it. Not really (well, just a little bit, union bosses have to get their pound of flesh out of the working stiffs), because even union shops are trying to make money. Stop and think about all the other trades that are involved. The walls have to be cut into (Concrete? Metal? Sheetrock?), additional wire run, several different building permits, inspectors, painters. And have you priced copper wire recently? China's demand for copper has driven the price of copper up by about 3X what it was a few years ago. More outlets means that you also have to beef up the breaker boxes and since code only allows so many outlets on a 15 or 20 Amp line (and no, you can't put a 100 amp line on a common wall socket), that means even more wires run (ever try to fish AWG12 romex through an existing construction? They probably have to use something harder to pull in a public building.), which means more costs. And do not forget the industrial grade GFI on the new lines.
Since it is a public area, then you have to also factor in costs to protect the public (you always have some idiot that will walk up and try to grab a live wire to ask what does it go to  or some kid wanting to play with the cool 'toys').
You are probably right about the weight and price of the sockets, they are probably a bit heavier and cost more since they are a much higher quality than the $0.59 residential models you buy at Lowes.
Of course, thousands per socket is probably a bit high, but it still will not be cheap from the perspective of doing some more sockets in your house.
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said by DaMaGeINC:$150 per outlet my ass.. I went to home depot and spent not even $10 on outlet hardware, and wired one up myself in my closet for my servers. Retrofitting a coffee shop or airport lounge costs big bucks for electrical contractors. It isn't just the owner rewiring a couple outlets. Electrical panels, circuit breaker boxes, more power from the electric supplier, etc. are all involved.
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 calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
1 edit | reply to wev567
For cryin' out loud, we DON'T NEED 15-20 amps at each of these outlets. We only need about two amps per laptop. The existing 15-20 amp circuit is FINE, it just needs more outlets.
And yes, if four guys all plug floor scrubbers into the same outlet box, they deserve to have to go reset the circuit breaker.
calvoiper
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA | reply to John Galt
For the third time, these are TWO AMP loads we're talking about. The wires can carry 15-20 amps depending on whether they are 14 or 12 guage. We just need more outlets.
calvoiper
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA | reply to fAcEtIOUs
Don't need more power. These are light loads. Only need more outlets.
calvoiper
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2 edits | said by calvoiper:Don't need more power. These are light loads. Only need more outlets. calvoiper You may be correct technically, but electrical codes don't allow for your interpretation of the rules. Adding a lot more outlets requires that the upstream electrical components be able to handle a higher load. And unlike a user at home with no one looking over their shoulder, a business gets regular fire inspections that look for electrical code violations. Failure to adhere to electrical codes can get the business fined and shut down.
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John GaltForward, MarchPremium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:3 | reply to calvoiper
said by calvoiper:For the third time, these are TWO AMP loads we're talking about. The wires can carry 15-20 amps depending on whether they are 14 or 12 guage. We just need more outlets. Actually, it is only 80% of that amperage...12 or 16 amps, respectively.
And remember, these computer bricks are switching power supplies...so there are the additional neutral harmonic currents to consider.
More conductors, increased fill, larger conduits..yada, yada, yada.
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| reply to RayW
said by RayW:said by markopoleo:He does know something about it, he knows its a union job. They prob have 10 people to work on one outlet, and they charge by weight, color, how much they sweat during install. That is absurd amount to charge no matter how you figure it. Not really (well, just a little bit, union bosses have to get their pound of flesh out of the working stiffs), because even union shops are trying to make money. Stop and think about all the other trades that are involved. The walls have to be cut into (Concrete? Metal? Sheetrock?), additional wire run, several different building permits, inspectors, painters. And have you priced copper wire recently? China's demand for copper has driven the price of copper up by about 3X what it was a few years ago. More outlets means that you also have to beef up the breaker boxes and since code only allows so many outlets on a 15 or 20 Amp line (and no, you can't put a 100 amp line on a common wall socket), that means even more wires run (ever try to fish AWG12 romex through an existing construction? They probably have to use something harder to pull in a public building.), which means more costs. And do not forget the industrial grade GFI on the new lines. Since it is a public area, then you have to also factor in costs to protect the public (you always have some idiot that will walk up and try to grab a live wire to ask what does it go to or some kid wanting to play with the cool 'toys') I know there is other factors to play in cost of any project, but just because its a remodel/retrofit job still does not justify the costs from that article mentioned. Esp since airports are MADE to be upgraded by design unlike other commercial buildings since they change a ton over course of life. |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA | reply to fAcEtIOUs
Well, we've at least isolated the problem, if the codes are indeed it....
calvoiper
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| reply to calvoiper
2 amps can add up when you have a long run with several outlets on it. What happens when you have 6 people on each outlet pulling 2 amps apiece and more then 2 outlets on a run? |
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