 BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | reply to Jason Levine
Re: Hardly surprising - allofmp3 was a pirate outfit said by Jason Levine:It wasn't exactly a pirate outfit. They were operating completely within the Russian laws. The only problem became when Americans bought songs from them. Then you got into legal gray areas. (Which is why I never bought anything from them even though I liked their service in theory.) Yes they are pirates. Did the artists get thier money? No. who cares about Russian laws. If some country says that child porn is ok does that make it ok for Americans to view it then if the website is base in that country? No of course not. Why anyone would give money and personal info to a RUSSIAN website is beyond me. .ru is synomomous with SCAMS. I have any e-mail I get that has .ru in it to automatically be discarded before it even reaches my inbox. Sometimes people are idiots. Anyone that bought from them deserves to have their bank accounts and credit cards drianed dry. |
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 scrummie02BentleyPremium
join:2004-04-16
Arlington, VA
 ·Comcast
1 edit | quote:
Yes they are pirates. Did the artists get thier money? No. who cares about Russian laws. If some country says that child porn is ok does that make it ok for Americans to view it then if the website is base in that country? No of course not. Why anyone would give money and personal info to a RUSSIAN website is beyond me. .ru is synomomous with SCAMS. I have any e-mail I get that has .ru in it to automatically be discarded before it even reaches my inbox. Sometimes people are idiots. Anyone that bought from them deserves to have their bank accounts and credit cards drianed dry.
so is .com. So should people stop doing web business altogether?
I don't care where the business is run if it's legit. Besides allofmp3.com had been operating for years before this hype. Not one complaint about anything fraudulent or that would be all over the news too, you can bet on that.
Your xenophobia is laughable........
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"I hate conservatives, but I really hate liberals." - Matt Stone
»www.reason.com/ |
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 kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
1 edit | reply to BF69
said by BF69:said by Jason Levine:It wasn't exactly a pirate outfit. They were operating completely within the Russian laws. The only problem became when Americans bought songs from them. Then you got into legal gray areas. (Which is why I never bought anything from them even though I liked their service in theory.) Yes they are pirates. No, they ARE NOT. If you can't grasp it, rather ask about it first.
Did the artists get thier money? No.
Yes and no. AoMP3 DID PAY the fees dictated by Russian laws.
who cares about Russian laws.
Who cares about US laws? Who cares about Tennessee laws?
I can't believe you people did buy into this RIAA-fed propaganda BS... open your eyes: it's NOT GOOD FOR YOU, not good for the US, not good for anybody, it's only serves the RIAA ilks!!!
If some country says that child porn is ok does that make it ok for Americans to view it then if the website is base in that country? No of course not.
What kind of BS is this? Childporn is NOT legal anywhere and is subjected to worldwide criminal agreements - bu8t theoretically yes, US has no business in other countries legal system - especially with our totally broken legal and legislative system, this 'best government and laaws money can buy' track record we have.
Why anyone would give money and personal info to a RUSSIAN website is beyond me.
It is just because you have a painfully narrow world of view and apparently you think your views MUST BE enforced for all of us.
Newsflash: apparently plenty of people think you are wrojng and don't want to do anything with your narrow-minded world.
Leave us alone with our choice, please. |
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said by BF69:Yes they are pirates. Did the artists get thier money? No. who cares about Russian laws. Russians? Seriously, though, do you think that a site run and hosted in Russia should be bound by US laws? How about a site in the US being bound by Russian laws? Or is it ok to export US rules upon the world and not ok to have other countries' rules forced on us.
Here's the answer: Neither should be permitted. Sites should be expected to live up to the laws in the countries where they are hosted. To expect otherwise is to open a HUGE can of worms that could shut down virtually every website. (Imagine if China could dictate what sites shouldn't be allowed to operate because their content was illegal in China.) The only wrinkle to this would be if someone lives in one country and hosts a site in another country. Then they open themselves up for prosecution in either country.
As for the particular case of AllOfMP3.com, Russian law specified a compulsory license fee that had to be paid to an organization called ROMS. This means that AllOfMP3.com didn't need contracts with each record label. They could just take the songs and sell them and pay the compulsory fee to stay legal. ROMS didn't pay that money back to the rights holders, but that wasn't AllOfMP3's issue. (Of course, this is all supposing that Russians were the ones paying for the songs. When an American bought a song, the legality got a whole lot grayer.)
said by BF69:If some country says that child porn is ok does that make it ok for Americans to view it then if the website is base in that country? No of course not. Nice Straw Man you have there. We're not talking about Child Porn. We're talking about copyrighted music. Bringing up Child Porn is just an attempt to sway an opinion based on "child porn is bad, therefore the other guy must be wrong since this argument is associating his position with child porn."
However, to turn your question back to copyrighted music: "If some country says that it is legal to buy copyrighted music in a fashion that is illegal in the US, does that make it ok for Americans to buy that music if the website is based in that country?"
Framed like this, I would say: Maybe. It actually all depends on import/export rules. For example, let's say you were to travel to Russia and buy a CD there. Now (from what I've heard), CDs there typically cost about $3 each. But CDs here cost about $15 (or more). Would it be legal for you, on a trip to Russia, to buy that $3 CD and take it home? Or should you be forced to pay an additional $12 for it when you cross customs?
Of course, downloading an item and buying a physical copy are two different actions. Right now there are no clear rules about this. It is one huge gray area (but one that I suspect will get less gray as time goes on).
said by BF69:Why anyone would give money and personal info to a RUSSIAN website is beyond me. .ru is synomomous with SCAMS. I have any e-mail I get that has .ru in it to automatically be discarded before it even reaches my inbox. So .ru is synonymous with scams? Luckily AllOfMP3.com was a DOT COM and not a DOT RU. 
I don't judge a site solely based on where it is hosted. You could just as easily get scammed by a .com, .uk, .eu, etc site. If you are getting any unsolicited e-mail from a company, you should junk it no matter what country code is in the URL.
I might be more careful with a site hosted in Russia, Turkey, etc, but I would also rely on other users who have used the site to form an opinion of it. I haven't heard of anyone being scammed from using AllOfMP3.com. Whatever the failings it might have in regard to US copyright law, it isn't an out and out scam.
said by BF69:Sometimes people are idiots. Anyone that bought from them deserves to have their bank accounts and credit cards drianed dry. Of course, you could use a one-time use number with them and they wouldn't be able to drain anything dry. Customers using credit cards wouldn't be liable for any fraudulent charges over $50 (and even that amount is usually waived). Debit cards should never be used for online purchases even if the site is trustworthy. (After all, you never know when it will be hacked and have a spending spree put on the card.)
I just went to their registration page and it looks like they ask for a name (first and last), e-mail address, country, and language. I'm guessing that later on you would need to enter some credit card details (possibly including home address) to use your credit card on the site. However, I don't see anything severe that would invite identity theft. I don't see any requests for SSN, DOB, or Mother's maiden name, for example. |
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 mrchrisOut and aroundPremium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY | reply to scrummie02
You really think artists get much from the so-called legitimate music stores (Rhapsody, iTunes and a slew of others)?? |
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said by BF69: If some country says that child porn is ok does that make it ok for Americans to view it then if the website is base in that country? No of course not. Looks as if those porn laws in other countries are about to change.
»www.cwfa.org/articles/11891/BLI/···ndex.htm
said by BF69: Why anyone would give money and personal info to a RUSSIAN website is beyond me. .ru is synomomous with SCAMS. I have any e-mail I get that has .ru in it to automatically be discarded before it even reaches my inbox. Sometimes people are idiots. Anyone that bought from them deserves to have their bank accounts and credit cards drianed dry. All the pirate site has to do, is hand over the names and CC#'s, IP addresses of people who made on line purchases to avoid costly lawsuits or prosecution. Guess, we'll see how much honor there is among thiefs.
This will be the RIAA's wet dream come true. Don't fret, the RIAA will drain many bank accounts of allofmp3 users.When the RIAA comes a knockin', those people won't be a rockin' for long.
As corrupt as Russia is, they will not allow anything to curtail WTO membership. Putin would kick his own mother overboard, along with every user of and including allofmp3, in a heartbeat for WTO status.
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Its the Democrats fault. In fact it is the Speaker of House Polosi fault. Everything is the Democrats fault. Everything. Just like Everything was the Republicans Fault when they were in power. |
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| Nice that you use an article that is very biased twords judeo-christian beliefs. I love the anti-abortion and anti-choice bit at the end of it. Try and use unbiased news articles and not psuedo-news with opinions interjected. |
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 pb5kCan't TriforcePremium
join:2005-11-16
Glendale, AZ | reply to guitarzan
said by guitarzan:All the pirate site has to do, is hand over the names and CC#'s, IP addresses of people who made on line purchases to avoid costly lawsuits or prosecution. Guess, we'll see how much honor there is among thiefs. Hate to burst your bubble, but the Russkys don't have any credit card numbers. Their credit card payments were processed through a respectable company in the Netherlands, IIRC, and they won't be handing over any CC numbers lest they betray the trust of their users.
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"When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.'" --
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 tapeloopNot bad at all, really.Premium
join:2004-06-27
Airstrip One
kudos:1 | reply to guitarzan
said by guitarzan: As corrupt as Russia is, they will not allow anything to curtail WTO membership. Putin would kick his own mother overboard, poison his own mother with radioactive polonium along with every user of and including allofmp3, in a heartbeat for WTO status. Fixed it for ya. 
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I cannot stand demagoguery. If you disagree with my stance, you're a blithering twit. You're not a twit, are you? |
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said by BPLSUCKS9:Nice that you use an article that is very biased twords judeo-christian beliefs. Thank you 
I would not use biased opinions, passed off as "news" that rejects Christian beliefs or promotes immoral decadent lifestyle, which opposes Christianity.
I understand, your hurt feelings when a " obviously biased" messenger like that, delivers the news of truth.
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Its the Democrats fault. In fact it is the Speaker of House Polosi fault. Everything is the Democrats fault. Everything. Just like Everything was the Republicans Fault when they were in power. |
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said by pb5k:Hate to burst your bubble, but the Russkys don't have any credit card numbers. Their credit card payments were processed through a respectable company in the Netherlands, IIRC, and they won't be handing over any CC numbers lest they betray the trust of their users. The Russians may not have credit card numbers.?
Can you rule out, with certainty, there are no Russians or Russian mafia, handling credit card accounts in that respectable company in the Netherlands.?
I guess, we'll have to wait and see the results, when that rickety house of cards topple.
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Its the Democrats fault. In fact it is the Speaker of House Polosi fault. Everything is the Democrats fault. Everything. Just like Everything was the Republicans Fault when they were in power. |
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pb5kCan't TriforcePremium
join:2005-11-16
Glendale, AZ | said by guitarzan:The Russians may not have credit card numbers.? Can you rule out, with certainty, there are no Russians or Russian mafia, handling credit card accounts in that respectable company in the Netherlands.? I guess, we'll have to wait and see the results, when that rickety house of cards topple. That's purely conjecture. I don't know why so many people assume the Russian mafia is involved whenever a business starts up there, it seems like a knee jerk reaction. I haven't found any evidence that the Russian mob is behind allofmp3 at all.
Anyway, prior to Visa and Mastercard's ban, the Dutch company that processed allofmp3's payments was Chronopay; you can judge their validity for yourself - Visa and Mastercard seem to respect them. But it seems like a lot of trouble for Russians to incorporate a company in the Netherlands just to process their own payments.
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"When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.'" --
Theodore Roosevelt |
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Reviews:
·Bright House
| reply to BF69
said by BF69:said by Jason Levine:It wasn't exactly a pirate outfit. They were operating completely within the Russian laws. The only problem became when Americans bought songs from them. Then you got into legal gray areas. (Which is why I never bought anything from them even though I liked their service in theory.) Yes they are pirates. Did the artists get thier money? No. who cares about Russian laws. If some country says that child porn is ok does that make it ok for Americans to view it then if the website is base in that country? No of course not. Why anyone would give money and personal info to a RUSSIAN website is beyond me. .ru is synomomous with SCAMS. I have any e-mail I get that has .ru in it to automatically be discarded before it even reaches my inbox. Sometimes people are idiots. Anyone that bought from them deserves to have their bank accounts and credit cards drianed dry. Why couldn't the nations who hate their site just block that domain? I think if you're gonna put pressure on someone to get out of the business, you should at least take away our right to view it. Thats what you're pushing for anyway. Why sugar coat it? I am just tired of this country sticking their "business" nose in everyone elses country. Sorry guys, but we are becoming the big bully of the world, and need to stop forcing other countries to do as WE please. I think if it crosses the water, and is pirated, we should realize there is no turing back, and just take a loss. Perhaps develop a better movie playing plan. I don't ever see "going to the movies or concerts" as being anything meaningful these days, because 5 hours later it's on google video, or youtube.
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SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1. |
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scrummie02BentleyPremium
join:2004-04-16
Arlington, VA Reviews:
·Comcast
| reply to guitarzan
so the only legitimate businesses are ones based in the US?
By the same token, whose to say there isn't any Sicilian mafia handling CC numbers of on-line businesses based in the US? Can you say that there isn't with all certainty?
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"I hate conservatives, but I really hate liberals." - Matt Stone
»www.reason.com/ |
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 YowzaaahOurs Go To Eleven
join:2000-12-14
DamnFlat, OH | reply to scrummie02
Re: Hardly surprising - allofmp3 was a pirate outfit BUT, THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!(then somehow throw child porn into the discussion)! What a TOOL!
"Those filthy Russian, non-American Media Consortium members, how DARE they give consumers fair value for fair pricing? You know - they're on a .ru domain like all those other child porn lovers! Why, I'll bet they must be putting backward masking of Marx and Trotsky speeches into the music our children are being duped into buying. Why else would anyone pay less than the obscene prices a good law abiding American knows Hollywood has legislated we all buy from i-Tunes? BY God we have to put an end to this to failure of everyone in the world to listen to and obey American media company lobbyists at once!"
The simple fact is Allofmp3 has/had the right to do what they do under Russian law and it PISSED the media companies off because they couldn't have absolute control of absolutely every last "legitimate" outlet for purchasing music in the entire damn world- i.e. guarantee that price fixing can continue to exploit the customer via U.S. Gov't protection of a 1920's business model by writing the whole seedy practice into being law. Then trying to make that the law all over the world.
SO THE MEDIA CONGLOMERATES THEN GOT OUR GOVERNMENT TO DEAL WITH THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT AT THE VERY HIGHEST LEVELS, OVER THE WAY MP3S CAN BE SOLD ON A RUSSIAN WEBSITE --and our Gov't wagged it's happy little, donation treat loving, bitch dog tail and came to heel.
That fucking makes me ill!
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Don't suspect your friends...turn them in. Brazil (if you haven't seen it, you should) |
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1 edit | reply to scrummie02
said by scrummie02:so the only legitimate businesses are ones based in the US? You're trying to imply something I have not said. If allofmp3 is really legit, Russia should defend a business contributing to its economy. Yet we see a post like this which suggests otherwise.
quote:
said by kamm:when something is making so much money - it's #2 or #3 shop in the Western World - it takes only few months to set it up in some other form, somewhere else.
Why would a legit business, need to set up shop, by moving to a different country?
said by scrummie02:By the same token, whose to say there isn't any Sicilian mafia handling CC numbers of on-line businesses based in the US? Can you say that there isn't with all certainty? The Sicilian mafia , or La Cosa Nostra has a vast enterprise, that is far reaching. All I can say with certainty, is no one knows, and those who do, are not talking.
Perhaps the RIAA, knows with certainty, whether or not any Sicilians, who have a vow of omertà, have a allofmp3 type web site in Italy selling mp3's.
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Its the Democrats fault. In fact it is the Speaker of House Polosi fault. Everything is the Democrats fault. Everything. Just like Everything was the Republicans Fault when they were in power. |
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 tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI | reply to BF69
That's why ANYONE who does ANY purchases online, you have a "special" credit card for that purpose with a "limited" amount so it doesn't get out of hand... No other personal info goes to them. Now, if you start getting mail spam in Russian.. then your in trouble..
As far as being legal or not, maybe some of you keyboard lawyers need to look into the rules covering electronic imports. Anyone who bought or is buying music from them are not doing anything illegal. Till they join the WTO, buy away.. »www.informationweek.com/news/sho···96600636 |
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI | reply to guitarzan
So what if they handed over CC info/Address, etc..? Maybe you should do a little looking into import laws.. You may find that buying from importers is a pretty benign process. But then again, reading your post brings this little saying to mind. "Sometimes it's best to sit there and look like a fool then open your mouth and prove you are one". Please post your bases/links to back up that downloaders were breaking ANY law.
»www.informationweek.com/news/sho···96600636 |
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