Re: Eliminating local franchises eliminates local pol graft in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r17378467 en Tue, 08 Dec 2009 22:47:09 EDT Tue, 08 Dec 2009 22:47:09 EDT Re: Eliminating local franchises eliminates local pol graft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17402037 SRFireside :
said by fredlydeadly :

Where do you think that money comes from? It isn't like the cable/telcos reduce their profit margins - they just boost what you pay to pass the additional cost through.
And this makes a difference, how? Those fees will be in your bill whether it comes from a local franchise fee or a national one. I'm talking about how much of that fee actually goes to your community. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17402037 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:20:10 EDT Re: Eliminating local franchises eliminates local pol graft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17399467 bmn :
said by asfdsadfsdafffff :

The state franchise laws still require the telcos/MSOs to carry Public, Educational, and Governmental channels and the 5% the communites get can help pay for it. This isn't that different from current practice, but should stop extortionate attempts from local special interests to get just one more concession from a MSO.
Still says nothing of the consumer protections that are built into the franchise agreements with respect to things like quality of service, etc.
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said by bmn See Profile :

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

Getting rid of local franchise agreements eliminates 1 more source of graft - the local politicians. And if we can get rid of state franchises and substitute national franchises( a bill is still waiting in Congress), we can get rid of state graft too. Paying off a lot less pols(only national ones then) should result in a faster rollout and lower costs due to less graft and payoffs.
Yeah, and then all the consumer protections offered by franchise agreements will be lost, there will be NO local access content (school channels, government announcement channels, EOC channels, etc.) and there is no way you can complain when the provider fails to hold up their end of the franchise agreement. The creation of national franchise agreements clearly puts all of the power into the hands of the provider and leaves the consumer with nothing.

As for your assertion that the providers will spend less time greasing palms... You clearly need to get a dose of reality. The politicians in DC are the neediest bunch of beggars in the political pipeline.
The state franchise laws still require the telcos/MSOs to carry Public, Educational, and Governmental channels and the 5% the communites get can help pay for it. This isn't that different from current practice, but should stop extortionate attempts from local special interests to get just one more concession from a MSO.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17378485 Fri, 01 Dec 2006 15:55:46 EDT Re: Eliminating local franchises eliminates local pol graft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17378467 anon :
said by SRFireside See Profile :

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

Actually the national law in Congress sets aside 5% of franchise tax to go to the local community. The money doesn't go back to Washington,DC. Then the local community can do with it as they see fit.
5% seems like a paltry sum, especially if a local community takes in much more from the local franchise fees. Plus what happens to local programming? State and federal franchises give little incentive for providers to cater to the actual local community.
Where do you think that money comes from? It isn't like the cable/telcos reduce their profit margins - they just boost what you pay to pass the additional cost through. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17378467 Fri, 01 Dec 2006 15:55:36 EDT Re: Eliminating local franchises eliminates local pol graft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17378908 karlmarx : "Paying off a lot less pols(only national ones then) should result in a faster rollout and lower costs due to less graft and payoffs."

Faster Rollout? Lower Cost? Umm, the reason they want to get rid of local franchise agreements is so they can cherry pick the area's they want to serve, not faster rollouts. The reason they don't like the local community to have a say is because then they can't constantly RAISE prices. The local community should have EVERY RIGHT to control what goes into their town. If the cable providers have to provide local access channels, then so do the telcos. There no free lunch for a megacorp at the local level, and that, of course, pisses off the right wing whackos.
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The 1992 Cable Act didn't nullify existing exclusive agreements because it legally couldn't do so... The Congress didn't have the authority to terminate a contract already entered into by the local municipalities and the cable providers. They did have the authority to regulate the rules next time though.

As for whether that's an issue... Since most franchise agreements are no longer than 10 or 15 years, the affects of the 1992 Cable Act will have started to dwindle the remaining exclusive franchises that are left.

It would be nice to see some overbuilding in the cable and telco arenas... Of course everyone knows that the existing provers will use the courts and their current positions to keep any new players out. The talk about competition, but they certainly don't walk it.
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same as electric, gas, and water services.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17378262 Fri, 01 Dec 2006 13:14:01 EDT Re: Eliminating local franchises eliminates local pol graft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17378234 batageek : if one guesses that the longest typical franchise is around 15 years, and the cable act was passed in 1992, if a new franchise was passed then, the last of the 15 year franchises would be up next year.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17378234 Fri, 01 Dec 2006 13:08:55 EDT Re: Eliminating local franchises eliminates local pol graft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17378230 yock : I guess we'll have to disagree about that then. I firmly oppose any notion that government's responsibility is to protect me from my own ignorance.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17378230 Fri, 01 Dec 2006 13:07:47 EDT Re: Eliminating local franchises eliminates local pol graft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17378224 batageek : I guess as far as this is infrastructure, I'd disagree.

It's good that you look into the broadband choices, but most don't and assume (i know what "assume" means...lol) it's there.

The pols are responsible for looking out for all of their voters, so they'd be kind of dumb not to require universal coverage. the "you're good enough but you're not" aspect will never sit well with the taxpayers.

Besides, the existing cable companies are already held to these requirements and built out under the same. Why would it be good to not hold the bells to the same standards?

It's not like they're startups, with no capital or equipment. In at&t's case, they're not even bringing fiber to the home, just to dslams so their rollout costs are tons less than verizon.

Consumers want broadband everywhere while the cable and telcos posture about wanting a level playing field. make it level. treat them all the same. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17378224 Fri, 01 Dec 2006 13:06:32 EDT Re: Eliminating local franchises eliminates local pol graft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17378167 yock : Yes, they are barred from granting exclusive rights, btu are the existing exclusive agreements nullified?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17378167 Fri, 01 Dec 2006 12:54:44 EDT Re: Eliminating local franchises eliminates local pol graft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17378145 batageek : »findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m···15769154

"Section 621 of the statute ....the 1992 Cable Act.... prohibits local authorities from granting exclusive franchises and from unreasonably refusing to award a second franchise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17378145 Fri, 01 Dec 2006 12:50:55 EDT Re: Eliminating local franchises eliminates local pol graft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17378136 yock : Don't get me wrong, I'm not endorsing the trend toward large, powerful, Federal government. I just think there are better ways to generate revenue than some arbitrary agreement like franchises.

All that stuff you mentioned? Never happened in my city. Cable and Telco access boxes are in front yards all over town. As for "screaming up a storm" if I'm not served, well, I have a lot of choice in the matter, don't I? The availability of high-speed internet services has been one of my primary questions both times I've moved. The onus is on me to see that it's available. When a landowner cannot sell/lease to me when high speed isn't available, then they can go back to the provider and lobby them for it.

Point being, one must create demand for a service before a company will provide it. Government should not require availability of a service where demand doesn't exist. It drives up prices and presents barriers to newcomers in the market.
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Franchise fees go towards a lot of different things depending on the community.

Some cities use it to fund local access programming.

Some use it to fund the public works employee that is responsible for making sure the right of ways are used properly (i.e. that at&t box ends up hidden rather than in the front yard - »www.lightreading.com/document.as···d=109923 - apparently that didn't happen here.)

Regardless of where it goes, the fee comes directly back to your community for the providers use of your city's right of ways - YOUR taxpayer right of ways. Pushing that off to the state or federal level just holds that cash back from your city. You certainly don't expect the state or feds to administer the delivery of those funds for free, do you?

Not to mention, the main thing local franchises do is ensure all of your town is covered. The "free market" bs about who should be served is not true. You'll be screaming up a storm when you're on the wrong side of the equation and not being served. This is the crap at&t is trying to pull with its slightspeed rollout.

The franchising fees do nothing to hurt competition - It's not like the Comcast's of the world eat those fees (or even try to bury them in your bill.) They're passed directly onto the customers anyway as a line item on your bill.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17378079 Fri, 01 Dec 2006 12:37:02 EDT Re: Eliminating local franchises eliminates local pol graft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17378041 yock :
said by bmn See Profile :

said by yock See Profile :

Franchising fees do help subsidize local government, but it is at the cost of competition. Tell me how it's in your best interest as a consumer that the government is essentially profiting off of your lack of choice in providers.
Franchise agreements can no longer be exclusive... Therefore, franchise agreements can not longer prevent competition.
Were the existing excludive agreements nullified by this?
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said by yock See Profile :

Franchising fees do help subsidize local government, but it is at the cost of competition. Tell me how it's in your best interest as a consumer that the government is essentially profiting off of your lack of choice in providers.
Franchise agreements can no longer be exclusive... Therefore, franchise agreements can not longer prevent competition.
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said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

Actually the national law in Congress sets aside 5% of franchise tax to go to the local community. The money doesn't go back to Washington,DC. Then the local community can do with it as they see fit.
5% seems like a paltry sum, especially if a local community takes in much more from the local franchise fees. Plus what happens to local programming? State and federal franchises give little incentive for providers to cater to the actual local community. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17377511 Fri, 01 Dec 2006 10:43:59 EDT Re: Eliminating local franchises eliminates local pol graft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17377507 N3OGH : If that's the case, then I support it....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17377507 Fri, 01 Dec 2006 10:43:09 EDT Re: Eliminating local franchises eliminates local pol graft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17377495 SRFireside :
said by yock See Profile :

Franchising fees do help subsidize local government, but it is at the cost of competition. Tell me how it's in your best interest as a consumer that the government is essentially profiting off of your lack of choice in providers.
How is this at the cost of competition? We're just talking about fees. This has little to do with actual deployment. The problem is abuse of the local franchises. If you fix that there is no need for state and federal franchising. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17377495 Fri, 01 Dec 2006 10:41:33 EDT Re: Eliminating local franchises eliminates local pol graft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17377475 bmn :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

Getting rid of local franchise agreements eliminates 1 more source of graft - the local politicians. And if we can get rid of state franchises and substitute national franchises( a bill is still waiting in Congress), we can get rid of state graft too. Paying off a lot less pols(only national ones then) should result in a faster rollout and lower costs due to less graft and payoffs.
Yeah, and then all the consumer protections offered by franchise agreements will be lost, there will be NO local access content (school channels, government announcement channels, EOC channels, etc.) and there is no way you can complain when the provider fails to hold up their end of the franchise agreement. The creation of national franchise agreements clearly puts all of the power into the hands of the provider and leaves the consumer with nothing.

As for your assertion that the providers will spend less time greasing palms... You clearly need to get a dose of reality. The politicians in DC are the neediest bunch of beggars in the political pipeline.
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said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

Getting rid of local franchise agreements eliminates 1 more source of graft - the local politicians. And if we can get rid of state franchises and substitute national franchises( a bill is still waiting in Congress), we can get rid of state graft too. Paying off a lot less pols(only national ones then) should result in a faster rollout and lower costs due to less graft and payoffs.
Riiiiiiiight. This will directly lead to more deployment. (rolls eyes)

Maybe the local muni's in NJ are how you describe them, but I take great umbrage to others deciding, through legislation, that all muni's are greedy and corrupt. Like broadband penetration, everyone assumes since they have it bad, well everyone must have it bad. (or vice versa) This is not the case here, so why should I go along with this assumption?

I'm certain if you polled the entire nation about their local governments, you may be surpised to find most are satisfied with the services they receive from them. And franchise fees help make that happen-without raising taxes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17377247 Fri, 01 Dec 2006 09:52:16 EDT Re: Eliminating local franchises eliminates local pol graft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17377195 Alpine :
said by yock See ProfileThey're gonna do that shit anyway. Woulnd't you rather see the possibility of competition?
That's essentially my take on this. I really don't care where the money goes, since it's going to go "somewhere," as long as deployment can be accelerated.

Adam ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17377195 Fri, 01 Dec 2006 09:43:24 EDT Re: Eliminating local franchises eliminates local pol graft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17377189 TKJunkMail :
said by N3OGH See Profile :

You make a valid point, when it comes to greedy local politicians and franchise agreements, but...

I would sure as hell rather see my franchise tax go to my local municipality, where I can show up to the township meetings (and I do) and gripe about how the people who are spending the money (the township supervisors) are spending it.

With a national franchise, all that money goes to DC. It's just another drop in the bucket for them. More cash to study the mating habits of the duck billed cockroach, or to build a bridge to nowhere....
Actually the national law in Congress sets aside 5% of franchise tax to go to the local community. The money doesn't go back to Washington,DC. Then the local community can do with it as they see fit.
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said by N3OGH See Profile :

You make a valid point, when it comes to greedy local politicians and franchise agreements, but...

I would sure as hell rather see my franchise tax go to my local municipality, where I can show up to the township meetings (and I do) and gripe about how the people who are spending the money (the township supervisors) are spending it.

With a national franchise, all that money goes to DC. It's just another drop in the bucket for them. More cash to study the mating habits of the duck billed cockroach, or to build a bridge to nowhere....
They're gonna do that shit anyway. Woulnd't you rather see the possibility of competition?
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"Our politicians help the terrorists every time they use fear as a campaign tactic." -- Bruce Schneier]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17377181 Fri, 01 Dec 2006 09:40:46 EDT Re: Eliminating local franchises eliminates local pol graft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17377157 N3OGH : You make a valid point, when it comes to greedy local politicians and franchise agreements, but...

I would sure as hell rather see my franchise tax go to my local municipality, where I can show up to the township meetings (and I do) and gripe about how the people who are spending the money (the township supervisors) are spending it.

With a national franchise, all that money goes to DC. It's just another drop in the bucket for them. More cash to study the mating habits of the duck billed cockroach, or to build a bridge to nowhere....
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My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17377134 Fri, 01 Dec 2006 09:29:52 EDT