How does the POE work? in Wireless Service Providers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r17443033 en Fri, 04 Dec 2009 03:26:55 EDT Fri, 04 Dec 2009 03:26:55 EDT Re: How does the POE work? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17483660 superdog :
said by lutful See Profile :

I have never deployed or recommended USB CPE. But almost all WISPs I helped asked why they cannot use the "cheap" USB adapters being sold at computer stores.
In 2003, I went around and ripped out every USB adapter we had in the field and replaced them with an ethernet solution. My tech. support calls went down 90%!!!. It also stopped my customers from sharing their settings with their neighbors. They would hand out the ESSID and WEP keys, and then the neighbor would just by a USB adapter off of ebay and get free internet. DO NOT USE USB ADAPTERS!. :D
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»www.wavecrazy.net Join WISPA today! »www.wispa.org/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17483660 Mon, 18 Dec 2006 20:11:31 EDT Re: How does the POE work? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17481456 lutful : Just to clarify, I prefer to use standard 48V PoE devices or 48V injector with DC/DC converter. :)

I have never deployed or recommended USB CPE. But almost all WISPs I helped asked why they cannot use the "cheap" USB adapters being sold at computer stores.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17481456 Mon, 18 Dec 2006 14:30:28 EDT Re: How does the POE work? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17475299 cmaenginsb : Lutful, if the device only used the power leads then it would not be limited to 15', however why have an ethernet device powered by USB?

gpilot, USB CPE like you're talking about has been discused here. Here are some problems with the idea:

1. Not easy and simple to deploy. USB CPE require drivers to be installed on the users PC and configuration information to be set on that PC. Even using active USB adapters they are harder to mount outside. Unless you can terminate the USB cable you need to drill a large hole than that for coax to allow for the usb connector to go through the wall.

2. Not easy to maintain. Anytime the user reloads their computer they need to reinstall the drivers and configure the thing. For troubleshooting purposes we can show up and test the radio with our laptop, if it works the problem is on the customer's side and other than making sure their network settings are correct we don't have to get involved.

3. Sharing. if you only want 1 customer computer connected to your network it's not bad. If the customer wants a setup similiar to DSL or Cable they would have to enable and configure internet sharing, which generally means you have to help them.

We offered USB CPE for a lower install charge when we first got into the business (like $100 cheaper). We had maybe 2-3 people take them.
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CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17475299 Sun, 17 Dec 2006 14:30:52 EDT Re: Dumb Customer Trouble Calls Revisited http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17475122 gpilot : its a good idea. Now a simple attenna that could plus directly via USB to a clients PC would be great because its simple and easy to deploy.

Link the HGA solutions where a simple CPE is under a 100 bucks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17475122 Sun, 17 Dec 2006 13:52:59 EDT Re: Dumb Customer Trouble Calls Revisited http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17464840 public :
said by LLigetfa See Profile :

said by electric6 :

Unless the computer has a POE NIC, you need a power injector and a 48V wall cube.
I think Tranzeo uses an 18 volt wall wart.
There are all kinds of proprietary noncompliant implementations. If you have one of those attach a big noncompliant warning label. Otherwise someone will connect 48V and wonder what happened.

There are simple single chip compliant designs:
»www.linear.com/pc/productDetail.···5,P30872]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17464840 Fri, 15 Dec 2006 15:14:32 EDT Re: How does the POE work? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17463947 AMD Phreak : You are right. It's a USB-ANT. From a quick google search it is mostly software controlled on the pc just like any other USB Wifi device.

I'm glad we have only a couple or so of these units. They seem like a turd. Short cable lengths prohibit any REAL installation, no quality software for configuration, and the list goes on.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17463947 Fri, 15 Dec 2006 12:40:04 EDT Re: How does the POE work? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17463844 lutful :
said by gpilot See Profile :

I think USB is 16V which could power a small radio, of topic i know but...
USB can "officially" supply only 500mA continuously at 5V (2.5W) to a device at maximum 15ft distance.

You can use any of 1000+ USB WiFi devices as a "window mounted" CPE.

A few companies also sell "extended USB" CPEs that do 80ft.
They generally cost in the $50 to $75 range. I think it is best to connect them via a powered HUB to avoid motherboard damage.

See one example above from Superpass.
Click for full size
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17463844 Fri, 15 Dec 2006 12:20:31 EDT Re: How does the POE work? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17463676 cmaenginsb : Phreak, that isn't a true etherant. YDI made a CPE similiar to the Etherant that used a USB wireless radio.
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CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17463676 Fri, 15 Dec 2006 11:50:59 EDT Re: How does the POE work? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17462614 aeronet : circa 2001,

when i was testing wisp gear, I need a way to extend usb range on a Raylink (yuck) USB CPE's. I found a usb extenders that used cat5 for up to 100' but the price was $85.

those good old days.....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17462614 Fri, 15 Dec 2006 07:55:33 EDT Re: How does the POE work? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17461522 AMD Phreak : Actually I found some YDI USB Etherant CPE's in our inventory after an aquisition. I'd have to check how it works, but it is a USB cable that runs inside. Never took the time to look....the cables are like 15 feet or something obnoxious like that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17461522 Thu, 14 Dec 2006 23:39:03 EDT Re: How does the POE work? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17460779 robbin : USB is only 5 volts but the greater problem would be the low amperage. Here is a link to the specs. Even if there were enough power there I think it would be an extremely bad idea. Using the customer computer to power a WISP radio would be just one more thing to blame the WISP for if they had any kind of computer problem.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17460779 Thu, 14 Dec 2006 21:22:30 EDT Re: How does the POE work? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17460481 gpilot : Its a shame you cant get USB POE's

I think USB is 16V which could power a small radio, of topic i know but...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17460481 Thu, 14 Dec 2006 20:30:10 EDT Re: How does the POE work? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17453438 korym : Oops, replied to the wrong thread. (Just noticed it was moved.)

My bad. :)

Regards,
Kory]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17453438 Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:26:21 EDT Re: How does the POE work? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17446427 lutful :
said by ssprenge See Profile :

all I have to do is plug the cat 5 cable from the cpe radio into the ethernet jack in the computer. And that's it. How does the POE work in that scenario? Does the computer provide the power to the cpe radio?
This is almost never true.

The PoE CAT5 will go first to an indoor PoE device which has a separate non-PoE port (usually marked "DATA") to connect separate CAT5 to PC or router.

It is very important to understand and follow the vendor's directions. PoE voltage levels for various CPE models can be can be 48V or 24V or 18V or 15V or 12V.

said by ssprenge See Profile :

These client PC's do not need anything else but their NIC card to receive internet service, right?
Occasionally you will have to use cross-over cable if the NIC does not implement auto-MDIX. You will know by link lights not blinking.

said by ssprenge See Profile :

And if the customer wants to distribute a wireless signal using a wireless router such as a Linksys, all I have to do run the cat 5 cable into the Linksys, and configure their laptop or a wireless capable desktop.
For this privilege, you just have to connect WAN port of indoor wireless router to DATA port of PoE device.

The router's WAN setting could be static IP or PPPoE or even dynamic IP based on how setup your WISP.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17446427 Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:34:27 EDT Re: How does the POE work? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17446334 LLigetfa : Not all POE are created equal. You need to match the injector with the power consuming device as there are not only different voltages involved but also different copper pairs. I believe that for a Tranzeo radio, you would use their POE injector.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17446334 Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:19:23 EDT Re: How does the POE work? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17446281 PetePuma : You need devices at both ends that support POE. One end provides a power source, the other end consumes that power.

How that power gets on the wires depends on the power source hardware. Some POE switches include POE voltage, or you can buy an injector that you connect a Cat5 cable (and a transformer) to, and then run another Cat5 cable out the other side.

Similarly, a consuming device must be built with POE in mind -- you can't just run any old device with an ethernet port using POE power.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17446281 Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:08:25 EDT Re: How does the POE work? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17446035 bryandj23 : :o]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17446035 Tue, 12 Dec 2006 15:36:09 EDT Re: Dumb Customer Trouble Calls Revisited http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17445102 PetePuma :
said by ssprenge See Profile :

What's a wall wart?
Transformer. Adapter. Those square/rectangle things that plug in the wall and have a connector on the other end. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17445102 Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:07:20 EDT Re: Dumb Customer Trouble Calls Revisited http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17444868 ssprenge : What's a wall wart? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17444868 Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:26:42 EDT Re: Dumb Customer Trouble Calls Revisited http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17443741 LLigetfa :
said by electric6 :

Unless the computer has a POE NIC, you need a power injector and a 48V wall cube.
I think Tranzeo uses an 18 volt wall wart.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17443741 Tue, 12 Dec 2006 08:39:14 EDT Re: Dumb Customer Trouble Calls Revisited http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17443665 superdog : In case anyone is interested, check out this website, and feel free to add to it. Kory set this up for all of us to enjoy reading about all of our stupid tech support issues.
»www.funnytechstories.com/
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»www.wavecrazy.net Join WISPA today! »www.wispa.org/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17443665 Tue, 12 Dec 2006 08:15:17 EDT Re: Dumb Customer Trouble Calls Revisited http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17443207 ssprenge : What are the chances of that, a customer's computer having a POE NIC installed? And how can you tell? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17443207 Tue, 12 Dec 2006 03:07:30 EDT Re: Dumb Customer Trouble Calls Revisited http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17443192 anon :
said by ssprenge See Profile :

Here's a dumb question, from me.

I am assuming that once I install a cpe, such as a tranzeo outside on the roof or something, all I have to do is plug the cat 5 cable from the cpe radio into the ethernet jack in the computer. And that's it. How does the POE work in that scenario? Does the computer provide the power to the cpe radio?
Unless the computer has a POE NIC, you need a power injector and a 48V wall cube.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17443192 Tue, 12 Dec 2006 02:57:36 EDT Re: Dumb Customer Trouble Calls Revisited http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17443116 robbin : That question deserves a thread of it's own!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17443116 Tue, 12 Dec 2006 02:16:28 EDT How does the POE work? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17443033 ssprenge : Here's a dumb question, from me.

I am assuming that once I install a cpe, such as a tranzeo outside on the roof or something, all I have to do is plug the cat 5 cable from the cpe radio into the ethernet jack in the computer. And that's it. How does the POE work in that scenario? Does the computer provide the power to the cpe radio?

These client PC's do not need anything else but their NIC card to receive internet service, right?

And if the customer wants to distribute a wireless signal using a wireless router such as a Linksys, all I have to do run the cat 5 cable into the Linksys, and configure their laptop or a wireless capable desktop.

Am I missing something here?

THX,
ssprenge

[mod note - moved to its own thread & corrected the topic heading}]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17443033 Tue, 12 Dec 2006 01:43:46 EDT