how-to block ads
|
Uniqs:
488 |
Share Topic
 |
 |
|
|
|  | |  calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA | Re: This service is already up and running Alright, there's plenty of reasons to dis this proposal without perpetuating the stereotype that all lighter than air craft are explosive, which they aren't. It's only when a government is stupid enough to use hydrogen for flotation instead of helium that this stuff happens. It was the Nazis, after all....
calvoiper
--
VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
| | |  tschmidtPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:5
 ·Fairpoint Commun..
 ·Hollis Hosting
| Re: This service is already up and running said by calvoiper:It's only when a government is stupid enough to use hydrogen for flotation instead of helium that this stuff happens. It was the Nazis, after all.... Not to defend Germany in WWII but the reason they used Hydrogen instead of Helium is they did not have access to any. I believe back in the 1930's the US was the major is not only supplier of Helium and we embargoed it.
As others have posted the Hindenburg gave Hydrogen a bad name when the real culprit appears to have been water proofing used on the outer skin. That turned out to be rocket fuel (i.e. Powered Aluminum). BTW: the space shuttle uses lots more Hydrogen then a whole fleet of blimps.
/Tom | |
| | | | calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA | Re: This service is already up and running You are correct on why there wasn't helium available to the Germans. However, that doesn't justify the use of a dangerous, flammable gas when the dirigible wasn't designed for the risk. If you're out of kerosene for your camp lantern, it doesn't make it OK to use gasoline instead.
calvoiper
--
VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
|
| |  whizkid3Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
kudos:8 | said by calvoiper:It's only when a government is stupid enough to use hydrogen for flotation instead of helium that this stuff happens. It was the Nazis, after all....calvoiper Calvoiper, your statement is incorrect on so many levels. It wasn't the Nazis, but rather German private industry that designed & built the Hindenburg and the Graf Zeppelin - the two largest aircraft of any kind ever to fly the earth, and the most advanced airships ever built - both technological wonders of their time. I would hardly use the term stupid here. And they wanted to use Helium for both:
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LZ_130_Graf_Zeppelin
quote:
The Graf Zeppelin II was originally designed to use hydrogen as lifting gas. After the Hindenburg disaster, however, Hugo Eckener vowed never to use hydrogen in a passenger airship again. Instead, he planned to use helium (which, ironically, had originally been planned for the Hindenburg). The only source of helium in large enough quantities was found in the United States, so Eckener proceeded immediately to Washington, D.C. to lobby for helium for his airships. He went so far as to visit President Roosevelt himself, who promised to supply helium, but only for peaceful purposes. After the annexation of Austria in March of 1938, U.S. Secretary of the Interior Harold Ickes refused to supply helium. The Graf Zeppelin's fourteen gas cells were ultimately inflated with hydrogen.
And lighten up - it was a joke. | |
| | | | calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA | Re: This service is already up and running Let's see, I had already agreed with tschmidt on why the helium was unavailable half a day before you posted.
Yes, helium was desired, but the US embargoed it, depriving a war-making treaty-breaking regime of a key resource. (More effectively than recent UN embargoes, I might add.) The Nazis were in control of the German government by the '35-'36 timeframe and their government allowed the STUPIDLY dangerous substitution of hydrogen. (The substitution also increased the lifting capacity around 8%, which the Germans promptly used to add cabins and passengers.)
After the LZ-129 disaster, the US (supposedly) agreed to provide helium for Graf Zepplin, but then, as you point out, refused following more Nazi aggression.
I don't know how you can say my post was wrong on multiple levels--are you claiming that LZ-129 was originally designed for hydrogen? It wasn't, as both your quote and the separate Wikipedia entry on LZ-129 outline. Clearly, there was a substitution. Maybe you don't see a government shortcoming here, but I do.
Are you saying hydrogen didn't have a role in the disaster? Regardless of whether you think hydrogen or the surface paint started the fire, the hydrogen burned spectacularly and was largely responsible for the resulting negative public image.
On the other hand, there are some Nazi apologists who blame the US for the disaster, claiming Adolph's hand was forced to use hydrogen. As I pointed out above regarding camp lanterns, a shortage of safety doesn't justify stupid risk-taking.
The net result of the substitution was that airships were forever branded as unsafe for passenger travel--and that is a shame--which was the point of my earlier post calling the Nazi decision to substitute hydrogen "stupid".
calvoiper
--
VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
| | | | | whizkid3Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
kudos:8 | Re: This service is already up and running OK, you were 100% right...
(Sheesh - so sensitive!) | |
|
whizkid3Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
kudos:8 | Oh, the humanity! | |
| |  morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | Re: This service is already up and running oh the huge manatees!
-the simpsons | |
|
| |
|
