King P
Don't blame me. I voted for Ron Paul
Premium
join:2004-11-17
Inman, SC | Wow
Do my eyes deceive me, or is Congress actually trying to do something good for the American people? It's almost too good to be true... |
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quatrix
Premium
join:2005-02-11
Davie, FL | Do you think all tax cuts are good for the American people? The brainless zombies loved Bush's "cuts" even though they or their children are still going to pay for them in other ways. |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | reply to King P
I'll believe it when I see it. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| reply to quatrix
said by quatrix  :Do you think all tax cuts are good for the American people? I certainly think that. Every tax cut is always good, no matter what. The more money we have to spend for ourselves, the better the economy is. Reagan proved this in the 1980s and we are still running on those same principles to this very day. Even the government makes out like a bandit under this system in that it collects more money under lower tax rates than it does under higher tax rates.
As for keeping spending under wraps, that's a whole different animal. Personally, I hope for massive gridlock under this congress.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| reply to quatrix
said by quatrix :Do you think all tax cuts are good for the American people? The brainless zombies loved Bush's "cuts" even though they or their children are still going to pay for them in other ways. Who's talking about all tax cuts? We're talking about one specific tax cut (the tax that existed to pay for a war that ended over a century ago), and a ban on instituting another kind of tax that doesn't currently exist.
If you want to equate that with repealing the income tax or something equally different, I guess that's your call... |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
 ·Embarq
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :said by quatrix :Do you think all tax cuts are good for the American people? I certainly think that. Every tax cut is always good, no matter what. The more money we have to spend for ourselves, the better the economy is. Reagan proved this in the 1980s and we are still running on those same principles to this very day. Even the government makes out like a bandit under this system in that it collects more money under lower tax rates than it does under higher tax rates. As for keeping spending under wraps, that's a whole different animal. Personally, I hope for massive gridlock under this congress. Whew. Can you explain to me how the government "collects more money with lower tax rates" -- What are their other sources of revenue? Because I'm telling you, the sh*t doesn't trickle down and Ronnie proved that as well. Even he raised taxes in the final years of his term to try and turn his ridiculous deficit spending into something not so butt-ugly.
I do, however, agree with the 'bandit' part 
As for supply side econ under Reagan and in the present, anyone that has studied economics knows that supply side is no better an economic device than any other; unless you print money that money has to come from somewhere at some point if you're going to spend more than you bring in. Reagan cut taxes but raised social security while running up huge deficits with his supply side crap that made the military industrials richer (as well as the top 10%). If the 'trickle down' theory of supply side works so well, and is what we've been running on since Bush, why is most of our production now overseas? Why have wages been stagnant so long? Why is job growth so tepid? Why so many bubbles to sustain a produce-nothing economy? Why not raise the minimum wage (it's trickling, right? Where's the trickle?)?
All capitalist systems benefit the ruling class. Period. You'll probably feel an urge to bash Clinton. Go ahead, But remember that Clinton balanced the budget while the stock market hit 10k (before it burst) and raised the minimum wage and also signed that crawling abortion of legislation named NAFTA. No system is to the peoples benefit, really, other than to keep the game in play. Some are better and some are worse. Supply side is easily one of the worst, right up there with trade policies like NAFTA.
As for tax cuts, sure they can be good. But only when done sensibly. When is the last time your government did anything sensible? Here in VA not long ago, a governor ran on cutting taxes, the car tax specifically. Guess what? The car tax was a huge source of state revenue, and without that revenue services had to be cut to squeeze out a budget. The battle becomes which services to cut, and that ends up a political battle rather than one based on common sense. So this gets cut and that gets cut, and pretty soon sh*t doesn't look so good anymore. Weeds are growing all over on the low end of the scale, and people are being denied more emergency services on the danger end of the scale. Poor people aren't getting help to attend community colleges and people's lives are ruined because teaching hospitals don't have the funding to provide operations to those without insurance -- another person lost in the tax cut game. And it is a game. The right hates entitlements (love how words become pejorative with spin and ignorance) and the left hates good business sense. Somewhere there's a sensible middle, but I fear it's lost in the hands of corporate controlled consumerism and brainwashed ideologues.
rant off
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"I am not young enough to know everything."
Oscar Wilde |
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27 | reply to King P
2 good 2 B tru.
USAA.
Senator Ted Stevens.
Wants to re-incarnate the USF/Spanish Am War tax.
Um, just vote no. |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
1 edit | reply to Titus Pullo
The gov't collects more taxes because reduced taxes typically lead to more people working (economic growth). So while each individual pays less taxes, you have more individuals paying them.
That is what happened during the 1980's. Unfortunately Congress being the drunken sailors they are, spent all of that increase in revenue and then some. The last Congress did the same. The tax cuts resulted in significant economic growth and thus increased tax revenue, but the pseudo-Republicans spent it all on bridges to no where, farm aid to super corps like ADM, the war and the huge mistake of a prescription drug program. Bush II never saw a spending bill he didn't love erasing any hope of balancing the budget.
The greed of gov't is never satisfied and if revenue doubled tomorrow, it wouldn't matter. They would simply spend it all on more stupid crap. |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
·Embarq
| said by ColorBASIC :The gov't collects more taxes because reduced taxes typically lead to more people working (economic growth). So while each individual pays less taxes, you have more individuals paying them. Bush II never saw a spending bill he didn't love erasing any hope of balancing the budget. The greed of gov't is never satisfied and if revenue doubled tomorrow, it wouldn't matter. They would simply spend it all on more stupid crap. Logically true to a fault, but rarely -- if ever -- realized in this day and age, and that was my point. Also, reduced taxes leads to a reduction in services which serves to mitigate net job growth from any economic growth since most of this so called 'growth' is vapor money in the form of finance capital in our economy while real jobs go elsewhere when capital investment occurs in earnest. And again, many people don't acknowledge (or accept) that social security taxes went up while general tax rates went down in the 80s. Reagan's deficits were obscene (though Bush 2's are triple x rated) and would have been worse if not for robbing the till of SS. Hell, when he needed currency for really underhanded sh*t he simply traded guns and then forgot about it.
Our elected musketeers are the bidders for their corporate masters, so it's no wonder they spend money on roads to nowhere. Our departed leader of the House earmarked money for just such a road on a vast parcel of property HE owned in nowhere, increasing its value by untold amounts.
As for the revenue from tax cuts, it's usually spent before collection
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"I am not young enough to know everything."
Oscar Wilde |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to Titus Pullo
said by Titus Pullo :Whew. Can you explain to me how the government "collects more money with lower tax rates" -- What are their other sources of revenue? Go look at the amount of money the government collected in taxes from 1981 to today. You can even look at what happened when JFK pushed for lower taxes in the early 1960s. Look at all the years in which there were tax cuts and see how it impacted revenue. The principle that lower taxes brings in more revenue to the government is an irrefutable fact.
Now, even with enhanced revenues, whether by Reaganomics or some other means, it does not change the fact that no government can spend more money than it has. Had the Republican party not expanded entitlements, farm subsidies and education spending from 2001 to 2006, we could have enjoyed balanced budgets during that time.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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roc5955
Premium
join:2005-11-26
Rosendale, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to pnh102
this is unbelievable!
even when Democrats cut taxes, they still try to tell us that Reagan's trickle down was correct. I have news for them. There's only one thing that trickles down, and it's surely NOT money.
I don't know of any rich conservatives who are willing to let go of one cent of their tax cuts.
Tax the rich to feed the poor, I say! |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by roc5955 :Tax the rich to feed the poor, I say! Heh... no one in the USA is starving to death. "Poor" people here are more likely to die of obesity-related illnesses than anything else.
What a country!
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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roc5955
Premium
join:2005-11-26
Rosendale, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by pnh102 :said by roc5955 :Tax the rich to feed the poor, I say! Heh... no one in the USA is starving to death. "Poor" people here are more likely to die of obesity-related illnesses than anything else. What a country! What about the Katrina victims?
What about the victims of any catastrophe, surely not all of them are able to get back on their feet and just rebuild. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by roc5955 :What about the Katrina victims? What about them? They had a local government that was incapable of handling a massive, predicted disaster. What did they do? The re-elected the same bumbling nincompoop mayor who fled his own city during the hurricane. People who blame the Federal government for any part of that seem to conveniently forget that FEMA always provides a bad response no matter what the disaster is.
said by roc5955 :What about the victims of any catastrophe, surely not all of them are able to get back on their feet and just rebuild. These people get massive relief from the generous people in this country, who contribute more to charity than anyone else. The Red Cross and other disaster-related charities made out like a bandit after both 9/11 and Katrina, all while helping people without government involvement.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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soothsayer15
join:2002-03-01
Irving, TX
| reply to pnh102
In Texas, there is no state income tax. Last year, the legislature voted to lower property taxes. In place of the taxes, Texas has decided to add surcharges to traffic violations. A $90 traffic ticket now becomes a $200 (or more) penalty. The money received for these "surcharges" do not funnel entirely back into the Department of Transportation. Some of the revenue goes into the judiciary which goes towards raising the salaries of judges and state legislators.
Because no one wants to pay high taxes, they ignore the fact that without tax revenue services have to be cut. The real issue is the mismanagement of taxpayer dollars, but politicians won't tell us that because that puts the onus on them.
They will find a way to get this money back one way or another. |
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roc5955
Premium
join:2005-11-26
Rosendale, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to pnh102
Hey let's not go there.
It's no point for me to have a battle of wits with a knuckle-dragging half witted freak.
There are people in NOLA who didn't vote for the damn mayor. Why should they suffer?
FEMA does good for people in Florida, because they EXPECT hurricanes. Not so much for NOLA.
People whose just got burnt out of their apartment get massive relief!?!?! From who? The Red Cross?? I think not. Why shouldn't the government help the poor. They help the rich, don't they?
Why don't we take corporations off welfare? Enough of these government handouts to move jobs overseas. NAFTA and GATT were all about government welfare to the rich. Gimme a break! |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by roc5955 :Hey let's not go there. It's no point for me to have a battle of wits with a knuckle-dragging half witted freak. Cause you already lost  To a knuckle-dragging half witted freak no less! Pity.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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roc5955
Premium
join:2005-11-26
Rosendale, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | Sure, if you say so... Whatever. All I know is that Focks News reported the worst disaster this country's EVER experienced. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to soothsayer15
said by soothsayer15 :They will find a way to get this money back one way or another. Again, revenue generation and spending are 2 separate beasts. The Texas legislature, in your example, is spending more than it is collecting in taxes. The onus has to be on them to cut spending while keeping taxes low. The funny part is within a year of the property tax cuts coming into effect, the state will probably realize more money from sales tax revenue, which will provide them with even more justification to fund new spending.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to roc5955
MS Paint ROOLZ |
said by roc5955 :Sure, if you say so... Whatever. All I know is that Focks News reported the worst disaster this country's EVER experienced. Uh... that isn't what he said. You forgot to photoshop that image before you uploaded it.
Here... I took a crack at it
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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