bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| How nice of PowerGrid...
So, they will gladly make concessions of the HAM operators of the area, but to hell with you if you happen to be a shortwave radio or AM time signal listener ? Nice, real nice.
I'm curious to see how the Feds are going to feel about Powergrid when they go online and the licensed NIST signals suddenly are gone from the airwaves. It is one thing to interfere with a bunch of hobbyist radio guys, but it is another to interfere with a federal government signal.
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Prove it... |
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Fox McCloud
Crazy like a fox.
join:2006-07-23
 ·Embarq
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| said by bmn  :So, they will gladly make concessions of the HAM operators of the area, but to hell with you if you happen to be a shortwave radio or AM time signal listener ? Nice, real nice. _; Shortwave is encompassed in HAM radio....
Anyway, it's interesting to see this expanding...I have no complaints as long as it doesn't create terrible interference...If only I could convince DP&L to deploy this.  |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| said by Fox McCloud :_; Shortwave is encompassed in HAM radio.... Right, but the article seems to hint that they are only going to protect HAM as asked for by the ARRL guys, not shortwave in the context of radio stations broadcasting on the shortwave worldband. So, say you want to listen to a shortwave station from Bern or Berlin, it sounds like you'll be SOL once they go live.
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Prove it... |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by bmn : So, say you want to listen to a shortwave station from Bern or Berlin, it sounds like you'll be SOL once they go live. Why do you need to listen to shortwave radio? All you need is the internet.  |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| reply to bmn
said by bmn :So, they will gladly make concessions of the HAM operators of the area, but to hell with you if you happen to be a shortwave radio or AM time signal listener ? Nice, real nice. I didn't read them say that. They'll "make concessions" to those that complain, like HAM's, because Part 15 rules they have to. If a shortwave radio or AM time signal listener exists in the area, and they complain, under those same rules they'll need to address it, too. But if no one complains, then there can be no "harmful interference". And a Part 15 operator needs to mitigate harmful interference, not hypothetical interference.
And realistically, how many in their area will use shortwave radio, especially these days when you can stream thingsw from all over the world. And if no one's using it in this area, why waste the spectrum and stop it from being used for Part 15 applications? In the view of the FCC, spectrum should be utilized to the fullest extent. |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| said by PDXPLT :said by bmn :So, they will gladly make concessions of the HAM operators of the area, but to hell with you if you happen to be a shortwave radio or AM time signal listener ? Nice, real nice. I didn't read them say that. They'll "make concessions" to those that complain, like HAM's, because Part 15 rules they have to. If a shortwave radio or AM time signal listener exists in the area, and they complain, under those same rules they'll need to address it, too. But if no one complains, then there can be no "harmful interference". And a Part 15 operator needs to mitigate harmful interference, not hypothetical interference. And realistically, how many in their area will use shortwave radio, especially these days when you can stream thingsw from all over the world. And if no one's using it in this area, why waste the spectrum and stop it from being used for Part 15 applications? In the view of the FCC, spectrum should be utilized to the fullest extent. That would be a valid point if this Part 15 technology actually used the spectrum. The kicker has always been BPL just radiates energy into wireless spectrum, it doesn't actually use it to provide the service.
I'm all for maximum spectrum utilization as well. The problem with the FCC's concept of this is it is an unlicensed anarchy where the most robust interferer gets the most use of the spectrum. BPL sets a precedence whereby HF spectrum in any given area will require "clearing out" before it can be used by anyone. This would be somewhat reasonable if you could expect a BPL carrier to act within days or hours. History has shown us most carriers move at glacial speeds and often deny interference.
Parts of wireless spectrum often fall out of favor when other bands become "sexy". Hams were kicked out of LF and MF when the government began to regulate radio, thinking that HF was useless. Hams discovered HF was actually more useful than the lower bands. HF use declined over the decades as VHF and UHF were more suited for local communications and now the Internet carries regional and international information. However, I think you'll see low band VHF become more popular again as UHF frequency congestion becomes more of a problem. HF still makes a simple and cost effective national network that doesn't require infrastructure. My point is that it's foolish to ruin a wireless band with the proliferation of RF polluting devices as these bands may become more valuable in the future. |
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W1RFI
join:2003-05-12
Burlington, CT
| reply to bmn
said by bmn :So, they will gladly make concessions of the HAM operators of the area, but to hell with you if you happen to be a shortwave radio or AM time signal listener ? Nice, real nice. Actually, there are no concessions. As far as licensed Amateurs are concerned, a system must not cause harmful interference. So far, some of the BPL industry is doing that for Amateur Radio reasonably well.
You are right that shortwave broadcast will still be impacted. From what I have seen in most BPL systems, all but the strongest of shortwave stations have interference.
Whether that is a problem will probably depend on complaints. But how many casual shortwave listeners will know that BPL is their noise source? How many will know they can generate a complaint? How many will actually want to literally make a federal case out of their problem? And, if the BPL operator stonewalls a bit, how many will keep at it until it is resolved?
Fortunately for BPL, the AM broadcast band is NOT affected in any of the systems I have seen to date.
I'm curious to see how the Feds are going to feel about Powergrid when they go online and the licensed NIST signals suddenly are gone from the airwaves. It is one thing to interfere with a bunch of hobbyist radio guys, but it is another to interfere with a federal government signal.
In most of the BPL systems I have seen to date, various WWV NIST time signals have been strongly impacted.
Ed Hare, W1RFI@arrl.org |
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fivebyfive
join:2006-11-26
Morgan Hill, CA | reply to moonpuppy
You ought to change your handle to moonbat. It would be more approriate to the comment you left here. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by fivebyfive :You ought to change your handle to moonbat. It would be more approriate to the comment you left here. Holy old thread Batman.
In case you missed it, it is called sarcasm.  |
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