11337845Live free or diePremium
join:2002-12-20
Seattle, WA | Ad-skipping is a nice feature, but I don't think that's why people do (or should) pay the monthly fee. Tivo, even with ads, is a handy device that makes watching TV on one's own schedule about as easy as it can get.
I wonder where this sense of entitlement comes from, and can only guess it's due to ad-free Tivo being the standard until now. It's like the re-adjustment period for a spoiled child whose parents are now backing up their expectations of the child.
The networks and their advertisers have every right to expect that the money paid for their ads (many thousands of dollars per ad, billions a year) aren't being completely wasted. I agree that many commercials are downright horrible, and I'd like to see the entertainment industry give me a decent reason to watch them, but that doesn't make them wrong.
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Have you seen my baseball? |
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Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| said by 11337845:... I wonder where this sense of entitlement comes from, and can only guess it's due to ad-free Tivo being the standard until now. It's like the re-adjustment period for a spoiled child whose parents are now backing up their expectations of the child.... sense of entitlement? how about outrage at TIVO changing the parameters of something you paid for? I see no problem if TIVO had been saying to every potential customer "You know we're going to change it in a year or two so you have to watch ads even when you fast forward". At least the customer is warned and makes an educated decision.
TCH is exactly right - drop TIVO like a hot potato or don't get TIVO in the first place. |
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 ToadmanHypnotoad
join:2001-11-28
Ohio
kudos:1
1 edit | reply to 11337845
said by 11337845:I wonder where this sense of entitlement comes from, and can only guess it's due to ad-free Tivo being the standard until now. It's like the re-adjustment period for a spoiled child whose parents are now backing up their expectations of the child. The networks and their advertisers have every right to expect that the money paid for their ads (many thousands of dollars per ad, billions a year) aren't being completely wasted. I agree that many commercials are downright horrible, and I'd like to see the entertainment industry give me a decent reason to watch them, but that doesn't make them wrong. Hold on there...
Tivo is a subscription service, people are paying X$ a month for a service, and when they start changing the service as to affecting the operation of the unit, every single person has the right to object. This is something MAJOR. Being able to skip commercials is well past 50% of the reason why people buy a Tivo. If they are taking equipment that you pay for and also pay a subscription for and then modifying it so that you can't, I would be in an uproar.
As for lost "add viewing" time for these networks, well, they need to get over it and realize that this is the nature of the beast, trends change and so does advertising. We don't see the cigarette companies still crying because they are limited on advertising, now do we? These companies need to find new ways to advertise, maybe on line?
Tivo is trying to save their sinking A**, plain and simple. Most people, including myself, realize that the neat Tivo features (easy to use interface) can be lived without for the money $. My Motorola PVR that I pay $5 rental fee a month for ( and that includes the hardware) does a fine job without ads. |
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| reply to 11337845
said by 11337845:I don't think that's why people do (or should) pay the monthly fee. Tivo, even with ads, is a handy device that makes watching TV on one's own schedule about as easy as it can get. WRONG! It is one of the two major reasons people buy a TIVO in the first place, and is the primary one in my case.
said by 11337845:I wonder where this sense of entitlement comes from, and can only guess it's due to ad-free Tivo being the standard until now. It's like the re-adjustment period for a spoiled child whose parents are now backing up their expectations of the child. This "sense of entitlement" comes from the representation by TIVO that commercials could be skipped as part of TIVO's marketing justification for subscribers purchasing TIVO and signing up in the first place. The locked-in lifetime subscriber reaction to the bait and switch theft of their right to avoid commercials by using a TIVO is amply justified. New non-lifetime subscribers can always cancel, and dump the equipment in the nearest landfill, where it belongs, if this invasion of privacy by forced viewing of commercials is going to continue.
said by 11337845:The networks and their advertisers have every right to expect that the money paid for their ads (many thousands of dollars per ad, billions a year) aren't being completely wasted. I agree that many commercials are downright horrible, and I'd like to see the entertainment industry give me a decent reason to watch them, but that doesn't make them wrong. Commercials are a necessary evil for over the air, free TV. They are not inherently wrong in that circumstance, but even in that arena, the commercials that RAISE THE VOLUME OF YOUR TV WHILE THEY ARE BEING AIRED certainly do strain ones nerves. Quality and subject matter of commercials is a pointless topic.
Not so with paid for subscription TV, like Cable and Satellite, and especially not so for subscription services, like TIVO, which, in addition to access to more content, rely on subscribers desire to remove or skip commercials as a major foundation for their existence. So consumer reaction to TIVOs decision to remove one of the two reasons to subscribe service is both predicable, and justified. I hope they change their minds. If I start seeing this crap on my DirecTIVO, I will definitely reconsider my subscription. |
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11337845Live free or diePremium
join:2002-12-20
Seattle, WA | reply to Toadman
Why should TV networks not expect you to watch their content on their terms? If they want to be an ad-based medium rather than a subscription service, that's their right. If you don't like it, don't watch it.
Nothing in the Tivo contract says you have any rights in this regard. They have the right to change their TOS at any time, and you to cancel at any time.
Besides, I just don't see the big f'ing deal. You have to see an ad banner while you are skipping commercials only. It's not a continuous banner along the bottom of the screen while you're watching your shows.
Tell me how this is really bad. I just don't get it.
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Have you seen my baseball? |
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 NOCManMacChatterPremium
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO | reply to nasadude
Read your TOS. I'm willing to bet there's no entitlement to let you avoide commercials. I bet there's even a clause to change the agreement without your prior approval.
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Ubuntu Tips »www.ubuntutips.org |
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ToadmanHypnotoad
join:2001-11-28
Ohio
kudos:1 | reply to 11337845
said by 11337845:Why should TV networks not expect you to watch their content on their terms? If they want to be an ad-based medium rather than a subscription service, that's their right. If you don't like it, don't watch it. Nothing in the Tivo contract says you have any rights in this regard. They have the right to change their TOS at any time, and you to cancel at any time. Besides, I just don't see the big f'ing deal. You have to see an ad banner while you are skipping commercials only. It's not a continuous banner along the bottom of the screen while you're watching your shows. Tell me how this is really bad. I just don't get it. Tivo is circumventing these tv networks you are concerned about and putting the profit in their pocket. That is the issue. If they are offsetting their costs and lowering your subscription cost, then OK, good business model, they are not.
What will happen next to ensure that "TV Netoworks are satisfied", will my TV turn itself on when they want me to watch a commercial. Nice family dinner without the TV on, nope, that will upset the networks... |
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b10010011Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA Reviews:
 ·Comcast Formerl..
3 edits | reply to 11337845
said by 11337845:Why should TV networks not expect you to watch their content on their terms? So if broadcasters could put a "must watch flag" on commercials so you could not change the channel, lower the volume, mute, or turn off your TV during them you would be ok with that?
Imagen trying to channel surf when everytime you landed on a commercial you were stuck there until the program started again.
That is what the future could hold. |
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 ROCINANTEOriginal Member 007Premium
join:1999-06-29
Hartsdale, NY | reply to 11337845
What are you talking about? Tivo is not a free service. Customers pay for the privilege of recording their favorite tv shows on a mass storage device so they may view the shows at a later time while skipping through the commercials. This was one of their main points in past advertisements. In fact, a well-known 30 second skip hack can be easily uncovered.
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CRUNCH THIS! |
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ROCINANTEOriginal Member 007Premium
join:1999-06-29
Hartsdale, NY | reply to NOCMan
That is not the point. Customer perception is the point. A long-term privilege of skipping commercials, which is a major selling point for Tivo, becomes a perceived right. Take that away and more than half of the customers will become dissatisfied.
It appears that the finance people at Tivo have more power than the marketing people. Tivo has never turned a profit and is carrying huge long-term debt. This is a bad idea for generating revenue; don't piss off your customers.
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CRUNCH THIS! |
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| reply to b10010011
said by b10010011:said by 11337845:Why should TV networks not expect you to watch their content on their terms? So if broadcasters could put a "must watch flag" on commercials so you could not change the channel, lower the volume, mute, or turn off your TV during them you would be ok with that? Imagen trying to channel surf when everytime you landed on a commercial you were stuck there until the program started again. That is what the future could hold. You can still pull the plug |
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11337845Live free or diePremium
join:2002-12-20
Seattle, WA | reply to b10010011
No, that would not be OK with me, and in that case I would not watch that programming. Vote with your remote.
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Have you seen my baseball? |
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| reply to 11337845
In the beginning, we paid for cable because it was commercial free, instead of tuning in to free local channels with commercials. Then the cable channels added commercials. Where did the cable channels' sense of entitlement come from? |
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Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| reply to NOCMan
said by NOCMan:Read your TOS. I'm willing to bet there's no entitlement to let you avoide commercials. I bet there's even a clause to change the agreement without your prior approval. I'm sure there is a clause to change the agreement without prior customer approval - all of these agreements are that way and the customer seems to have no rights whatsoever except the power of the pocketbook. And that's where the customer will exercise his power - by not buying the service.
Oh, by the way, I don't ever remember signing a TOS with the broadcast industry, so I'm not sure why they think I am required to watch their commercials.
Tell you what, I'll sign a TOS with the broadcast industry and pledge to watch their commercials when they give me a cut of what the PUBLIC airwaves they are using are worth. Isn't a conservative estimate of these frequencies in the several billion dollar range? |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
1 edit | reply to ROCINANTE
said by ROCINANTE:That is not the point. Customer perception is the point. A long-term privilege of skipping commercials, which is a major selling point for Tivo, becomes a perceived right. Huh? 'sounds like you're inventing new law here: "if you're stupid enough not to read the TOS before you agree to it, but instead use optimistic wishful thinking to guess at what it might say instead, you're entitled to the Terms and Conditions that you made up in your own mind because ... you're somehow entitled to it(?)".
I'm gonna go buy a car tommorrow. I'm gonna think that contract says that if I stop making payments, I get to keep it anyway. We'll see how it goes. |
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 nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | reply to 11337845
said by 11337845:I don't think that's why people do (or should) pay the monthly fee. Tivo, even with ads, is a handy device that makes watching TV on one's own schedule about as easy as it can get. I wonder where this sense of entitlement comes from, and can only guess it's due to ad-free Tivo being the standard until now. It's like the re-adjustment period for a spoiled child whose parents are now backing up their expectations of the child. You must be new. TiVO - and other DVRs, for that matter - are just modern updates to the VCR. With a VCR, so long as you had a remote control, you could fairly easily FF through commercials. Heck, some of the later models would record over-the air programming and nuke the commercials before you ever played them back. By forcibly injecting commercials, TiVO is making their DVR less capable than the antiquated VCR. It's not a "sense of entitlement", unless you consider it unreasonable to expect modern technology to provide at least as much functionality as the technology it's supplanting.
said by 11337845:The networks and their advertisers have every right to expect that the money paid for their ads (many thousands of dollars per ad, billions a year) aren't being completely wasted. Anyone can expect anything they want to. Whether it's reasonable to expect that, just because they spent money, that anyone will chose to view their "content".. Well, that's a whole other matter.
said by 11337845:I agree that many commercials are downright horrible, and I'd like to see the entertainment industry give me a decent reason to watch them, but that doesn't make them wrong. And them spending money doesn't make them right, either. Perhaps if, instead of making "downright horrible" commercials they made interesting or compelling ones, people wouldn't skip them?
-tom
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"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." -Louis D Brandeis |
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Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| reply to 11337845
I think it would make more sense if some of the money I pay Cox to skip over the commercials that Cox airs over the top of everyone else went to the station or content producer.
Nothing more annoying then watching live television and watching the Cox ads end and then cut back to the broadcasters feed half way through a Lunesta Commerical.
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Retaking our country one election at a time. |
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 MiddiemanEschew Obfuscation
join:2001-02-05
Elkins Park, PA | reply to 11337845
The person who said that this is a matter of the customer's perception is right. If you don't please your customers, you don't need to stay in business.
Myself, I have been a Tivo customer since series 1 was released. Now it should concern Tivo that if I start seeing ads on my TV that I can perceive that I don't need to pay for the service any longer.
-=[Middie]=-
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| reply to nasadude
The problem with TOS is that these days it is basically impossible to function without signing one (or submitting to implicit consent to one). You can't get a telephone (of any flavor) or a bank account without signing a TOS that basically allows the provider to change the terms of service pretty much at will, sometimes with no direct notice to you. If you get on an airplane it is on their terms, and even if you pay cash for a new car it is still on their terms on the purchase agreement (neatly hidden in fine print)... It all comes down to who has the deepest pockets to hire lawyers to show that most of those TOS are conveniently ignored when it is convenient. |
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| reply to PDXPLT
said by PDXPLT:I'm gonna go buy a car tomorrow. I'm gonna think that contract says that if I stop making payments, I get to keep it anyway. We'll see how it goes. What is it with people and bad analogies? 
First off, a car is a physical product, TIVO is a service.
Now, if you are stuck on the car analogy, it would be more like you buying a car and making payments when the finance company comes back and says you need to leave the radio on a certain frequency so you can listen to ads and you are not allowed to turn the volume down. Agree to that or stop driving. |
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