Keithb
join:2003-09-16
US
| Outdoor rated Cat5 required? We've been using the gel-filled Cat5 cable for all installations, and a great deal of them only have a few feet of the cabling exposed to the elements. It makes me wonder if using this outdoor rated cable is even worth it? If we do an install on a satellite arm, only 3-4' of the cable is exposed to the weather.
Is using 50' of outdoor cable worth only having 3-4' exposed to the weather? As hard as it is to get this cable, I ponder on the reasoning?
Has anyone found a source lately for the outdoor rated cable? I've been unlucky so far, and looking to order 2 spools ASAP. | |
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 slipstream1
Premium
join:2005-11-15
Jacksonville, TX | Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? I use a PVC jacket rated Superior Essex jacketed cable for all installations. I only use gel filled cable for tower installations or anything that would require direct burial cable. | |
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AMD Phreak
Premium
join:2003-12-14
| Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? Same as slipstream. I used to have the techs use flooded, but it was more of a hassle than it was worth...with the time involved cleaning the pairs and then terminating them.
The jacket on the Superior cable is nearly if not exactly identical to the General Cable that is used by Bell for the phone installs on premise. Very flexable, even in the freezing weather.
Towers get STP from Best-Tronics. Before I started here, the installer was using STP cable for premise....100% pure waste of money 99.99999999999% of the time, if you catch my drift.
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Using a non-ports-system OS is like masturbating with a cheese grater
"No job is so important, and no service is so urgent that we cannot take the time to do it safely."
-- AT&T | |
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| Keithb
join:2003-09-16
US | Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? Any good vendors for the Superior cable in Texas by any chance? | |
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| | Jeffster
join:2003-12-16
Lavon, TX
| Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? I buy my outdoor cable from Altex (www.altex.com) in Carrolton (NW Dallas) but they have several locations in Texas.
»www.altex.com/product_info.php?p···_id=3512
The direct burial unshielded cable is listed at $.31 per foot, but when you order a 1000 ft (one box) the price drops to around 180ish.
Their direct burial cable is kinda cool in that it has what appears to be a paper sleave around the cable... but when it gets wet it releases a gell similiar to icky-pick found in gell filled cable. It's dry when you install it and turns to gell-filled if water compromises the jacket. I use it for my tower installations.
I buy the regular outdoor stuff from them (white jacket) for around 135 per 1000 ft for customer installs. Their website shows it for $.22 ft but it doesn't do the quantity discount for some reason.
»www.altex.com/product_info.php?p···_id=1606
-Jeff | |
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AMD Phreak
Premium
join:2003-12-14 | Graybar is where I am sourcing ours from. For us it ships from their Washington warehouse. I'd check with them first. | |
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| | | Keithb
join:2003-09-16
US | Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? I checked with Graybar in Houston and it was $130 for regular Cat5 indoor, and $201 for outdoor. I just ordered some from the cat5cableguy a while back, so we'll see how this goes. | |
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AMD Phreak
Premium
join:2003-12-14
| Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? 201 for outdoor?
Was this the essex stuff that we were talking about? It sounds like you are talking about the mowhawk outdoor that they stock. You have to be very specific about it. I had to drill our rep about outdoor cable for about 10 minutes until he found something that was not flooded (mowhawk). I can get you the exact part number if you want me to. It should be like 100$ or so. | |
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| VariableARK
join:2003-03-17
USA | I second cablewholesale, they have shipped me my cabling quick and it is a good price, flexible cable too. | |
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Chele
join:2003-07-23
| Why is this crap so expensive? I used to be able to buy the Home Depot outdoor cable for $50 about 18months ago or Defacto Wireless outdoor/flooded for $94(1000')(shipped) around the same time. Then, all of the sudden(so it seemed), it shot up. The Home Depot is about $85(500') and Defacto's shot up as well(they're out right now). Does anybody sell 2000' spools? | |
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DSLbyAir
Premium,MVM
join:2003-04-10
Ocean Springs, MS
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? The price of copper went up. A friend of mine got $2.85 a pound at the scrap yard last week.
»www.dslbyair.com
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If you can't fit, force it, and if it breaks, it needed replaced anyway! | |
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slipstream1
Premium
join:2005-11-15
Jacksonville, TX
| Indeed, the price of copper and oil went up. The oil is coming back down, but the copper is still high. I have been having to do repair jobs on alot of cellular tower sites. People go into a cell site and steal every piece of copper they can find. It is crazy out there right now. | |
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viperm
Carpe Diem
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Winchester, CA
| Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? I hear you we caught the guy who was doing it at our cell tower and chased him all around town and finally caught him wiht a wad of cash, van, wire, tools and such at the local scrap yard. Cops came an took him away. It was his 2nd time being caught for the same thing. He tried to give his girlfriend the wade of cash... NOT we told the cops they took it and impounded it.. SHE WAS PISSED!!! oh well ike we gave a **** so the guy knows not to mess with us!
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ComTrain Certified Tower Climber. American Tower Certified approved contractor | |
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| | kukur
join:2003-10-29
Saint Maries, ID
| Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? said by viperm  :I hear you we caught the guy who was doing it at our cell tower and chased him all around town and finally caught him wiht a wad of cash, van, wire, tools and such at the local scrap yard. Cops came an took him away. It was his 2nd time being caught for the same thing. He tried to give his girlfriend the wade of cash... NOT we told the cops they took it and impounded it.. SHE WAS PISSED!!! oh well ike we gave a **** so the guy knows not to mess with us! A couple months ago someone climbed a power pole and was trying to steal the copper ground rod from inside a state park here in Idaho.
Actual article text:
By Ralph Bartholdt
An Oakesdale man suspected of trying to steel a copper ground wire from a power pole at Heyburn State Park is recovering at Harborview Medical Center from electrical burns.
Park employees found Thomas J. McBride, 41, lying under a power pole at Upper Chatcolet Road, Nov. 1, after he had fallen approximately 35 feet.
The workers told police that another man, David Sharp, 34, of Oakesdale, approached them at 11:30 a.m. and said his friend had been electrocuted.
When they arrived at the scene they found McBride conscious "wearing spiked boots lying near a pair of pliers," according to a deputy's report.
He was transferred by helicopter to Kootenai Medical Center and then to Harborview where he is listed in satisfactory condition.
Sharp told deputies that he had brought McBride to the park to collect firewood and was surprised when he climbed the power pole.
He saw McBride start to fall and grab an electrical line. After he grabbed the wire there was an orange arc and McBride fell from the pole.
He lay unresponsive when Sharp went for help, according to a report.
The 41-year-old could face a misdemeanor charge of attempted petty theft, said Benewah County Prosecutor Doug Payne, who hasn't filed a complaint in the case.
"He appeared to be engaged in stealing copper for scrap," the prosecutor said. "It's fair to say charges are pending."
Skyrocketing copper prices, over $3 per pound, have prompted a rash of similar incidents in the region, mostly in Stevens County, Washington, an Avista spokesperson said.
The company has logged 33 cases of theft, said Debbie Simock of Avista.
"This summer we had a series of thefts north of Spokane," said Ms. Simock. "We have had a number of situations where people have stolen copper, taken it out of transformers, they've pulled down spans of wire."
"It is incredibly dangerous and not worth risking their life for the little bit of copper they can possibly get out of it."
The problem isn't as pronounced in Idaho's Panhandle, she said.
Theft of the metal usually follows a cycle and increases when copper prices go up, she said.
She urged people to call authorities or Avista if they notice suspicious activity around lines, substations or equipment.
"Our crews will always be in Avista trucks," she said. "If we have any contractors working they will be in identifiable vehicles."
Distribution lines carry approximately 7,000 volts of electricity, more than 60 times the amount found in homes, she said. | |
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| | | Keithb
join:2003-09-16
US
| Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? Yea, the lady at Graybar seems a little clueless that I spoke to. I believe she was quoting Commscope or Belden though, not Mowhawk.
We've had our share of copper theft, and saw in a safety meeting a guy stealing copper from a substation with 69kv. Needless to say, he didn't make it to the scrap yard.
If you can get the part numbers from Graybar that would be great. I'd like the regular outdoor cable, as well as the flood cable, and possibly the flooded shielded cable. She wasn't sure which to choose actually. | |
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AMD Phreak
Premium
join:2003-12-14
| Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? Try this for the Essex cable:
5ESWPPV4P24GYPESS
not sure on the mowhawk flooded.....just ask for it by name. It might be also direct bury flooded cat5e. The flooding compound comes of real easy if you use some Klein hand wipes. I always order a bucket of those with a 1000' spool of flooded cable so we dont run out.
Not sure on flooded STP. I assume Belden makes some. I think even Superior Essex makes some OSP STP CAT5e....i recall seeing some on a tower a while back.
--
Using a non-ports-system OS is like masturbating with a cheese grater
"No job is so important, and no service is so urgent that we cannot take the time to do it safely."
-- AT&T | |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| I keep 3 different types of cable in the van. Regular UTP CAT5 for any indoor work that has to be done, The outdoor grade stuff from Home Depot for installing CPE's and short rooftop runs to AP's etc. and then STP for tower installs or any situation that requires shielding (running across florescent lights etc.). I used to use 1 cable for everything, but I have since stopped that practice as I now have plenty of room to store things(van vs. pickup) AND the cost factor. I must admit that when I first started out in the business, I was running regular UTP cable for everything, as I didn't know any better. To date, none of those "indoor" cables have failed, and I have installs that have been running for over 5 years, both tower and CPE. I guess that if I had to pay climbers for tower work?, I would use the best cable $$ could buy, as the last thing I want to do is have to pay big $$ to climb up and repair a bad cable run. I can honestly say that to this point, I do not see the benefit of using the gel filled cable?.
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| VariableARK
join:2003-03-17
USA
| Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? I had some early installs that used regular indoor cable outdoors. at one residence, the cable got a small (almost invisible crack in it and filled the entire line with water, it shorted out the poe and caused alot of problems.
No more of that! | |
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wwwires
@net.au | Is there any type of spray or paint that you could apply to the exposed cable to seal it from the elements?
It seems like a bit of a waste using outdoor cable when only about a meter of it is exposed to the weather. | |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? said by wwwires :
Is there any type of spray or paint that you could apply to the exposed cable to seal it from the elements?
I am going to say no?. Depending on what the compound You are using to do this contains?, it may start to break down the jacket of the CAT5 even faster than what the UV rays of the sun can?. I have tried to use different substances over the years to seal coax connectors, and some worked and some did not?. The stuff that worked was fine for sealing short distances, but You would not want to try and apply it to a few feet of CAT5 cable, as it would be both difficult and messy.I have found that most standard CAT5 cable does fine outside, but it is very prone to cracking at bends and any place You have squeezed it or applied pressure?, like using a zip tie to attach it to a tower. I will admit that once this happens, it becomes a big bendable straw  , and water will follow it right to the end of the cable, and as mentioned before, run out all over whatever is there. 
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| | LLigetfa
join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON | Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? Google for liquidtight flexible conduit. Only seal one end waterproof and stuff fibreglass insulation in the other end to keep bugs out.
Black poly pipe works good too. | |
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| | | Keithb
join:2003-09-16
US
| Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? Yea, we've used the sealtite (what we call it) constantly on some of our transformer banks. I was looking to spend less money per install, but don't want to jeopardize the integrity of the cabling either. We used to purchase the flooded UTP for under $100/1000' as others have stated, but now we can't come close as most vendors are out.
Are there that many more people using it now?
I'll use the CMX since I do not see the need for the flooded cable except on towers, etc. I'll contact Graybar on our next purchase though, with the #'s listed above. Maybe they can find it this time.  | |
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| | | | LLigetfa
join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
| Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? said by Keithb :I was looking to spend less money per install IKWYM... cannot believe the price of that shit. I buy lots of my fibre from Anixter wrapped in Tek armour and by comparison, the empty Liquidtight is more expensive! Go figure?
Anyway, in your first post you were only talking 3 or 4 feet. Gel-filled may be over-kill but the outdoor stuff with the gel filling usually has the tougher jacket as well for direct burial. The main concern I have is for rodents chewing through the wire. Seems they don't like the gel any more than we do and stop chewing when they get a taste of it.
You could also consider a short piece of soft copper tubing with the black poly jacket. If you use the bare stuff, the green oxide would stain the house. | |
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| | | | | Keithb
join:2003-09-16
US
| Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? I'll be satisfied with the CMX outdoor jacket for a little over $100/1000', but don't see how we were paying less than that 3 months ago for the gel filled. It just doesn't make sense.
We have a pop where we have to use about 75' of the sealtite conduit due to rodents. It's a rice mill, and there are power cables that are chewed through and hanging on by a few strands, so I know I need the metal ring filled sealtite there, not just the plastic. | |
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| lschweiss
Premium
join:2005-12-01
Bridgeton, MO
| said by wwwires :
Is there any type of spray or paint that you could apply to the exposed cable to seal it from the elements?
I'm still using gel filled, but as prices keep going up, I'm investigating using heat shrink tubing for the outdoor portions on cheaper cat-5. I know it is available in bulk roles and weather proof. | |
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Chele
join:2003-07-23
| Let's go on strike and not buy this stuff anymore It's kind of funny that one year ago we were all whining about the cost of CPE's, now this. I continue buying the HomeDepot stuff, it costs just as much as the others listed here by the time you figure taxes and shipping. | |
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| Keithb
join:2003-09-16
US | Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? It's 500' rolls also? We've always found more waste on 500' rolls. | |
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| | Chele
join:2003-07-23
| Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? said by Keithb :It's 500' rolls also? We've always found more waste on 500' rolls. Not really, We seldom waste cable. Some of our installs require very little cable. It would be better if we could get it in 1000' boxes/spools. I really like the HD stuff, it's easy to work with, it holds up very well, and it's readily available. As I said, by the time it's all said and done, it costs just as much as the other non-flooded cable. However, I'm always looking for better options. | |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| said by Chele : It's kind of funny that one year ago we were all whining about the cost of CPE's, now this. I continue buying the HomeDepot stuff, it costs just as much as the others listed here by the time you figure taxes and shipping. Agreed!. The cost of CPE's has dropped to the point that anyone who says they can't make any $$ in this business is crazy!. While most of You do not like Raylink, I am loving the stuff more and more every day!. I just bought 2 brand new CPE's in the box for $13.00 each! Talk about making $$ from day 1!. I also just bought a new Deliberant 2700 connectorized unit for $67.00!, and it was brand new also. Ebay is a great place if You are persistent?.
Your second thought about the cable is the same way I think also?. The other cool thing is that it is there when I need it, and I am never stuck waiting to do installs on the UPS guy. I also do not have to shell out any extra cash to buy spare rolls "Just in case", as it seems that most times when I do that, it is $$ that just sits there and does nothing?.
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| | Keithb
join:2003-09-16
US | Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? 4 Home Depots within 70 miles of here are all out of Cat5, so it's not readily available down here unfortunately. | |
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| | | LLigetfa
join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON | Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? I think it's a conspired shortage to drive up the price. | |
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| | | Chele
join:2003-07-23
| said by Keithb :4 Home Depots within 70 miles of here are all out of Cat5, so it's not readily available down here unfortunately. This has happened to me before. The worst part is that NOBODY else carries outdoor CAT5 in my neck of the woods, and quite frankly, I think I'm the only one that buys this stuff from HomeDepot here | |
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| | | | Keithb
join:2003-09-16
US
| Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? Yea, that's why I was so shocked none had any. I thought Stealthwave done bought'em all out. lol
I've got some coming now, so I'll use these 2 spools. I still have a few 100' of the flooded direct burial cable which I'd like to save.
We're adding a new pop, and only have 125' of the sheilded flooded cable, so I might have to use some non-shielded temporarily. | |
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AMD Phreak
Premium
join:2003-12-14 | Re: Outdoor rated Cat5 required? Airaya ships their products using the Mowhawk UTP flooded. Normally I would not use this on a tower, but it seems to work just fine. I have used it on a site that has a lot of RF here and the ethernet errors are nil. | |
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cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA
| Something to think about. Even though only 3 of cable is "exposed" to the weather the reality is the whole cable is. Remember that once moisture enters the cable it will travel up the space between the copper and the pvc meaning the actual point of corrosion could be anywhere on the cable. So the rationalization of only 3' being outdoors making it not worth it really doesn't fly.
That said we use the outdoor home depot stuff most of the time as proper install in a dryer climate will prevent water from causing the problem I described. The only places where you might consider flooded cable for CPe is on the ocean.
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CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber | |
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