batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25
2 edits | Backup
Can anyone provide me one solid case or reason that BPL's design (typically fiber to a point, then powerline) would be better than a fiber to a wifi drop?
It seems that using wifi drops would be substantially cheaper and more robust than any of the speeds I've seen for the powerline stuff.
Really....honestly...I 'd love to hear if someone can prove to me I'm wrong. I'd like to be "schooled" on this because I really just don't get the advantage of using BPL.
Peace
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»www.tricitybroadband.com |
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Cerabus12
Dial-up 4 Life
join:2005-08-09
Brooker, FL
1 edit | I don't think there really is no "advantage" but for people like me who live out in the boonies this would be a god sent |
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batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25
| I'm not arguing its ability to bring services. It just seems like it would be cheaper and faster to deliver those services to the actual home via wireless.
All of the BPL builds I've read about aren't pushing any sort of video product and their speeds seem to be limited to the 6 to 10 mb range as far as speed is concerned.
If we can assume that a BPL plant has a fiber backbone (i think i'm safe on that), and that the powerline stuff is just used to get it into a home, i don't know why you wouldn't just use cheap wifi stuff at the ends.
again, i'd like to be proven wrong here and learn something new...
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»www.tricitybroadband.com |
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Estragon
join:2003-06-20
Greenville, NH
 ·Fairpoint Communic..
·MV Communications,..
| reply to batageek
All geography is local
It all depends upon your terrain.
(1) In a dense urban setting, your wifi configuration will be limited by the total amount of spectrum that is available, and how closely you can space your wifi access points.
(2) In an east coast rural setting, your wifi plan depends upon having line of sight to the access point, and trees get seriously in the way.
And if you run that much fiber, you basically have FTTC anyway. why not just go all the way to the home? |
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roady1
join:2003-11-13
Cleveland, OH
| reply to batageek
It's viable...
Particularly in places like Cleveland, who's entire west side lacks the proper switching equipment to support DSL. TWC(formerly Adelphia) has a very firm grip on the market due to poor equipment.
I'd love to use wireless or DSL...or even BPL...but any advancement keeps getting squashed by the local city laws. |
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Estragon
join:2003-06-20
Greenville, NH | Question about Cleveland
Does Cleveland bury its power lines, or do they run on poles up in the air?
And would it make a difference in the HF interference produced by BPL? |
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batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25
| reply to Estragon
Re: All geography is local
said by Estragon  :And if you run that much fiber, you basically have FTTC anyway. why not just go all the way to the home? But that was kind of my point.
My understanding was that most of the BPL builds are supported by fiber rings around the area anyway. I seem to remember that the expensive part of the BPL builds is literally at the conversion point from the fiber to where it uses the powerline segment/equipment to reach into the home.
If you're that close, and can't run fiber all the way to the home, wouldn't it be substantially cheaper (and more technology safe) to do the end run from the fiber node via a close range mesh (with widely available, standard wifi junk) rather than a proprietary delivery system?
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to batageek
Re: Backup
said by batageek :again, i'd like to be proven wrong here and learn something new... Which will propagate a signal better, air or copper wire?
Ever tried to shoot a wireless signal around an obstruction at a 90 degree angle?
Wireless is much, MUCH harder to get right than delivering a signal over a wire. Hell, most carriers can't get a decent quality VOICE call to stay connected.
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Use the OS tool for the job. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to batageek
Re: All geography is local
said by batageek :said by Estragon :And if you run that much fiber, you basically have FTTC anyway. why not just go all the way to the home? But that was kind of my point. My understanding was that most of the BPL builds are supported by fiber rings around the area anyway. I seem to remember that the expensive part of the BPL builds is literally at the conversion point from the fiber to where it uses the powerline segment/equipment to reach into the home. If you're that close, and can't run fiber all the way to the home, wouldn't it be substantially cheaper (and more technology safe) to do the end run from the fiber node via a close range mesh (with widely available, standard wifi junk) rather than a proprietary delivery system? Not really. Here is Duke Energy's fiber network: »www.duke-energy.com/dukenet/
It would be way more expensive to pull fiber all the way to the home or use an unlicensed technology to provide a wireless mesh.
What happens when Johnny hacks his WRT54G with a custom firmware?
WiMAX could possibly work in a fixed point-to-point scenario, but now they have to invest in tons of towers and place equipment on the home like a satellite dish.
It's much cheaper to just use the existing wire, convert the signal and provide a transceiver that plugs into the wall.
The telco's have fiber waaaaay closer to the home than the power companies and the only one of them using FTTH is Verizon.
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Use the OS tool for the job. |
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ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs:
 ·magicjack.com
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·Comcast
·AT&T Midwest
 ·HughesNet Satellit..
| reply to batageek
Re: Backup
Wireless in our area still has $200+ setup fees, and $40 or $50/month prices, We have 2 Wisps here and both are about the same. Oh and the speeds are not even that good from what we've seen on our local tests. Oh and if you live on the wrong side of a building your just screwed cause line of sight is required just like satellite tv. |
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W1RFI
join:2003-05-12
Burlington, CT
| reply to batageek
said by batageek :Can anyone provide me one solid case or reason that BPL's design (typically fiber to a point, then powerline) would be better than a fiber to a wifi drop? In a building, in-premise BPL can save a fair amount of wiring costs. Of course, some of the same problems seen with getting WiFi to the back of a building have been seen between BPL modems and outlets widely separated in a home or apartment.
Don't just think access -- for utility applications, Fiber and WiFi probably can't do as well as signals on the power lines themselves.
DSP would require a repeater after about 5000 feet or so from the central office. This has been a major factor in the economics of DSL and remote locations. BPL requires a repeater reportedly every 2000 feet, although I have seen in most installations 500 to 1000 feet to be more typical.
There are a few studies on rural BPL in the "business and financial" page on ARRL's BPL page at »www.arrl.org/bpl.
Ed Hare, W1RFI@arrl.org
ARRL Laboratory Manager
225 Main St
Newington, CT 06111
Tel: 860-594-0318 |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| reply to roady1
Re: It's viable...
With First Energy being based in Cleveland and their own Telco- First Communications you would think they'd have more push for BPL in Cleveland or even their own FTTH network. They have the money to buy out other CLECs but nothing to invest in actual networks. |
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GhostDoggy
join:2005-05-11
Duluth, GA
| reply to batageek
Re: Backup
A couple of years ago, a friend and I suggested that a company could put short-range wi-fi transceivers inside individual neighborhoods for distribution.
We first looked at the problem with how cable and telephone companies had to deal with what we called local-loop installs and came up with a wireless solution by providing lawn-torpedo wireless trasmitters that used a combination of heavy encryption, custom wireless CPE, and wireless distances under 300 feet.
The initial thought was when BellSouth was originally charging its PC Data customers $175 to install their IFITL technology, which was way too much for the average consumer and resulted in low market penetration. The ONU would have been a nice scenario for this wireless approach as the lawn torpedo only needed 200-300 of clear distance.
Then we thought the same thing for the lawn torpedo for the cable company using just data transport, and thought again about how our local electrical cooperative company could place a 6-8" antenna on every lamp post in our respective planned neighborhoods that they own.
Because the shortness of wireless range the resulting power level requirements were on par for current consumer product power levels. No need to cause alarm in the amateur radio folks. And while I greatly dislike wireless in my own paranoid home, it would eliminate the local-loop troubleshooting aspect and simplify self-installs.
Folks, keep in mind that its not that difficult for a utility company to prospect the BPL scenario. Remember, they already have MEN and TRUCKS and a heck of a lot of digging experience. For them to extend fiber into the neighborhoods would not be that difficult. Now add this idea to the not-for-profit electrical coop scenario and you have a consumer-friendly, utility that competes. |
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