Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
 ·Site5.com
 ·AT&T Midwest
 ·Comcast
| reply to powerhog
Re: Cuban may be right
Cuban makes some very valid points. The analysis of his points also are very valid, but I thought I would put down some thoughts as well.
Conflicting Clients - On multiple torrent sites there are clients that are and are not allowed. Heck, some clients out there are starting to come out that cheat the system and ratios. The analysis on TorrentFreak really doesn't address that. He addresses file association, and maybe that is what Cuban meant. I didn't get that impression when I read Cubans article. Either way, both people are right here. Cuban about the differing clients and TorrentFreak about the file association.
End users don't understand how P2P works - I agree with Cuban here. I have had to teach a lot of people how P2P works. With all the different clients out there and torrent lists and trackers, it can be more challenging to common users. Heck, these users need to open ports up in their firewalls, which to common people can be a hastle. Look at Blizzards delivery system and the amount of questions in the WoW forum that just that gets alone. Once as people understand the system, then they look to get around it unless they are REALLY into sharing. Which is why you had people downloading like crazy using Kazaa and then shutting the client down if they didn't want to share. Ratios play a part in most torrent sites, and some people just don't like that. Either way, Cuban is right that most people don't know how it works. At the same time, TorrentFreak is right that once people learn the technology, they will use it. Heck, even TorrentFreak admits that some people download and then shut their torrent down to avoid uploading.
Bandwidth savings for end user and the problem with seeding - Cuban says that bandwidth can be a problem and TorrentFreak says that more and more people are going after unlimited plans. Lets rephrase here...More and more people who are broadband aficionados are asking for unlimited plans. The bulk of the people out there don't understand how it works and don't download a lot. If the email is coming in and their webpages are popping up, whats the problem? Not everyone is a broadband expert out there. As for uploading while downloading, TorrentFreak is right on that. Users just don't care while they are downloading. If the download gets completed though and they shut the torrent off, Cuban is right. You aren't going to be able to upload as fast as you download so if you download 4gb and you only upload 250 meg and shut the torrent off, how are other people going to get that file as fast as you did?
Torrentfreak is looking at the picture as if EVERYONE was a broadband expert. Cuban is looking at the real world picture. In my opinion, both have great points.
Conclusion: Both parties win. 
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My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal |
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powerhog
Stinkin' up the joint
Premium
join:2000-12-14
Owasso, OK
 ·AtlasOK
| I was thinking about this from a "pipe" point of view... as discussed yesterday.
Regardless of the technology used to distribute the media, it seems that downloading a full-length HD movie at current broadband speeds will take hours, if not days, for the average user... unless, as also discussed yesterday, the media is cropped and compressed so that it's no longer "true HD". This is especially true when you consider that the un-washed masses (vs DSLR members) generally subscribe to lower speed tiers from their ISP.
If/when the average consumer's broadband speed (and invisible caps) increases to levels where HD content can be downloaded in "minutes", Cuban and others may run into problems. However, for the next few years, it's unlikely that streaming HD is going to be a threat to conventional "broadcast" methods. |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| It's not a pipe, it's a series of tubes. And they send dump trucks down those tubes, carrying massive, massive amounts of stuff. And when those tubes get filled up, they have to build more trucks. And whose going to pay for those trucks? Well, companies like google and yahoo aren't. We need to tax those people who are sending the sand in the trucks down the tubes, because they are getting a free ride by leeching off the great and powerful corporations, which help pay the senator. So, downloading a movies is like pouring sand down the drain. You'll clog up the drain, and then the interweb won't work anymore. The average consumer uses about 100 pounds of sand per year. But over the next couple of years, we expect the consumer to buy a bigger bucket and pail, so they can use more sand. And since the movies are made up of many many sand pieces, the internet wasn't designed that way. If you wanted to get something, it would take forever, because too many trucks are carrying the sand down the tubes. The internet? Is that thing still around? Support your local republican senator, cause a moron is a terrible thing to waste.
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Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs. |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to powerhog
All the more reason ISPs(*ALL* OF THEM) need to get away from the asymmetrical speeds!
10/10 min. for every high speed freak - with caps that allow downloading(and uploading) multi GB files, or no caps at all, and the BT/mass distribution of HD would work!
Even the beloved FiOS is severly one sided when it comes to bandwidth.
My Comcast? GEEZ!
All the people that have $19.95 - 1.5mbps/???k DSL packages? Not going to happen!
Yeah! I occasionally bitch about wanting a REAL fiber pipe.
But you will also notice that I have the biggest, baddest line available *HERE* in Hercules, CA.
8mbps/768k(nominal, PB takes it to 30mbps download from a few sources)... aint gonna cut it for HD and BT.
I'm boned just like most of y'all.
Sucks, don't it? 
How many of y'all have 10/10(or better) so you could make this actually work? Not too many I suspect.
16/2(highest Comcast available in select areas) would help, but it is still severly one sided. Sure, 10 sources with 16/2 lines would make it almost acceptable, but you or I will not be the only connection to this set of 10, so that sure puts a damper on that idea, huh?
Seeing as Comcast(A cable TV company) would not have it in their best interests($$$) to deliver the speeds needed or the content via broadband, not gonna happen. This would take away from their STB rentals and HD/cable subs.
Verizon is getting into FiOS TV.
It would not be in Verizons best interests(read cash-cow) to up their speed to realistic levels to make this work either.
Too much $$$ to be made from the STB rentals(are they rented?) and the advertising/bundled channels- just like Comcast and all the other cablecos.
So, what can we do?
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by dadkins  :All the more reason ISPs(*ALL* OF THEM) need to get away from the asymmetrical speeds! 10/10 min. for every high speed freak - with caps that allow downloading(and uploading) multi GB files, or no caps at all, and the BT/mass distribution of HD would work! Even the beloved FiOS is severly one sided when it comes to bandwidth. FiOS could EASILY be symmetric but then you'd have BUSINESSES going on the res service and EVERYONE knows the biz sub gets raped royally. as far as SLA's, ask yourself how often fibre goes down.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Then there are ISPs like Surewest... already providing(in Roseville) 10/10, and 20/20 Residential fiber for reasonable prices.
The 20/20 has no caps... so I'm told.
What could you/me/we do with a 20/20 uncapped fiber line?
A shitload more than we can now!
Who here can honestly compete with a 20/20 uncapped line?
Right this minute.
Remember, SW has had this for a while now...
I'm not talking about what your workplace has... your home residential connection. 
^^^THAT is what I want!
I don't want to settle for a xx/x line and send the message that the masses think it is acceptable.
Screw that!
(Can't believe I'm posting this!) Cuban is right!
With what I have for a connection, BT won't fly for HD!
What about all you people?
Do y'all have the horsepower to actually make Cuban wrong?
Naw, I didn't think so... 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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bklynite
Premium
join:2001-03-18
Brooklyn, NY
clubs:
| reply to karlmarx
said by karlmarx :Support your local republican senator, cause a moron is a terrible thing to waste. Idiocy is equally distributed on all sides of the political spectrum.
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W-Train.com Webmaster | »www.bklynite.com |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| reply to dadkins
said by dadkins :Then there are ISPs like Surewest... already providing(in Roseville) 10/10, and 20/20 Residential fiber for reasonable prices. The 20/20 has no caps... so I'm told. What could you/me/we do with a 20/20 uncapped fiber line? A shitload more than we can now! Who here can honestly compete with a 20/20 uncapped line? Right this minute. Remember, SW has had this for a while now... I'm not talking about what your workplace has... your home residential connection. ^^^THAT is what I want! I don't want to settle for a xx/x line and send the message that the masses think it is acceptable. Screw that! (Can't believe I'm posting this!) Cuban is right! With what I have for a connection, BT won't fly for HD! What about all you people? Do y'all have the horsepower to actually make Cuban wrong? Naw, I didn't think so... If i remember correctly, surewest has a 30GB cap or at least it used to.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| On the 10/10 service, yes.
On the 20/20 service, no. Or so I have been told. One user here stated this in a previous News item as well.
Don't know for certain. Surewest was just one fiber provider that offers it's customers ??/?? speeds. There are others.
I just wish they would all get off the stick and start pushing some use-able speeds to us.
It's nice to dream, huh?
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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Poomfasa
join:2003-04-13
Rocklin, CA
1 edit | Sigh, just to stop the spreading of misinformation...
Surewest bandwidth thresholds
1/1 = 30GB
10/10 = 75GB
20/20 = 150GB
50/50 = 400GB |
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