Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings in Charter HSI/CATV

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Sun, 04 Feb 2007 15:22:01 EDT

useless : Glad to hear it.

I liked how you lump crappy DNS service in with a NN discussion. About par for the course.

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Sun, 04 Feb 2007 14:22:53 EDT

ronpin : Verizon's FiOS is really the only thing that has ever gotten Charter's attention. It's the only reason some of us can now get 10mbs. Low latency is also a feature of FiOS -- so I'll give up any other approach to questioning "fair latency" -- and allow the 800lb FiOS gorilla to continue forcing competition. Hey -- I'm OK with the QoS, spotty DNS and all, for now.
--
America has been hijacked by selfish nationalist corporate pigs. The whole world hates us now. Have a nice day.

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Sun, 04 Feb 2007 14:09:09 EDT

useless : My denials? LOL!

I posted the documented cases of anti NN behavior. You are posted about someone providing a service you dont want to pay for. Like saying airline tickets cost too much, the government should step in because its cheaper to drive but i dont want to and shouldnt have to pay to fly.

Maybe if you feel there is a problem here, you should take Charter to court? Let us know when you win, until then you are only posting flamebait. (you would lose miserably, so instead you spam FUD in forums)

I think its fair to ask how come no one has sued? You can only answer with 1 example, which I provided you.

Secondly, if game rail is a fiber customer, they could very easily provide a lower latency route by changing yours. Why dont you run gamerail and sniffer and see? Someone probably already has, and realized it has nothing to with NN. That is such a crappy example of anti NN behavior, further outlining your lack of understanding.

»www.killernic.com/KillerNic/

You have to buy that card to get lower pings. They obviously have a deal where they pay money and charter screws you over if you dont have that card.

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Sun, 04 Feb 2007 13:47:17 EDT

ronpin : Your denials seem a bit desperate. You most certainly have not answered any questions other than offer the original definition of NN. I already offered that "this" is a new "twist" on NN. Not NN as we knew it.

Unless Charter has purchased entirely isolated local loops and tier1 backbones for higher priority customers like GameRail -- regular customer must now necessarily get lower priority -- when contention does occur (prime-time). That is a fact.

Further, it is fair to ask how far this might go -- it is a slippery slope once ISP's start to segregate traffic based on money. This is a fundamental shift. Before, a packet was a packet was a packet.

Most folks recognize a deliberate smear/jeer tactic as a defensive move. Why so cagegy?

(I hope Charter does well -- but fairly to all concerned)
--
America has been hijacked by selfish nationalist corporate pigs. The whole world hates us now. Have a nice day.

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Sun, 04 Feb 2007 12:54:29 EDT

useless : Also, do not get me wrong. I agree with Google, Yahoo, whoever else. The problem is we are trying to put a law in effect for a problem that has not happened. IF someone thinks there traffic is getting throttled, or they have been asked to pay or it would get throttled, it would have gone to court and you would have heard about it.

Ever noticed how we normally get laws to prevent things that have occurred we do not like? That includes every just about over other law. NN is a typical example of the Democrats being bought out by corporations, and legislating so they can continue to get paid. NN is anti free market, until ISPs start participating in anti NN behavior. Then regulation would be required. Until then, it is hogwash

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Sun, 04 Feb 2007 12:50:24 EDT

useless : 1. I answered this.
2. Makes no sense.
3. Because you do not understand the issue. How much money does Google make, compared to you or I?
4. No, it is very simple. Google, et al, made this up because they fear they are going to start getting charged more. Since it has only been documented 1 time in America, concerning a very small company, it remains simple. This is legislation to prevent something that has not happened yet. IF you think that is good policy, that is your choice. I happen to think it is a crappy policy, which is what it boils down to.

We already know the politicians do not understand the internet, so it is confusing to me as to what basis we are getting NN legislation. I guess Google's lobby has gotten pretty big these days.

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Sun, 04 Feb 2007 12:44:16 EDT

ronpin : Fascinating response ('looks I did touch a nerve).

1. How do you explain how one entity can get higher priority -- without necessarily reducing priority for others?

2. How can that not be a slippery-slope?

3. Why am I not allowed to ask the question?

4. Is this getting complicated?

(BTW -- I'm a very contented 10mbs VoIP subscriber -- I just want to keep it that way)
--
America has been hijacked by selfish nationalist corporate pigs. The whole world hates us now. Have a nice day.

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Sun, 04 Feb 2007 12:40:42 EDT

useless : Interesting video, interesting post about NN. Completely offbase, like most of the NN concerned posts in here.

A company providing a service to lower pings. Consider how they would do that for 1 second. How exactly can you lower your latency from point A to point B? Nothing to do with NN, at all. If it was, your latency would be ~1000ms, not going from 80 to 60ms.

The anon MI_user has it correct, lack of understanding of NN has all these asisine theories popping up. If you understood what it was, you might be able to make an intelligent post regarding it.

Do you think that your gaming anywhere near a big enough percentage of the traffic for anyone to consider it in the grand scheme of things? Obviously you do, a perfect example of the pro-NN media and the stupidity of the people they are trying to trick in thinking it concerns them.

Here is the site with all the FUD:
»www.savetheinternet.com/=threat

Here are the 4 documented abuses. 2 are in Canada, 1 you never heard of the ISP, and the other is AOL, which, if you are using AOL then you deserve it(its not even related NN, they have to include it so they can have another example). Until there is something substantial here in America, any NN post is equivalent to an idiotic rant and/or flamebait. In fact, I wish they wouldnt let NN crap in here, since Charter is in no way affiliated with a NN case.

* In 2004, North Carolina ISP Madison River blocked their DSL customers from using any rival Web-based phone service.

* In 2005, Canada's telephone giant Telus blocked customers from visiting a Web site sympathetic to the Telecommunications Workers Union during a contentious labor dispute.

* Shaw, a major Canadian cable, internet, and telephone service company, intentionally downgrades the "quality and reliability" of competing Internet-phone services that their customers might choose -- driving customers to their own phone services not through better services, but by rigging the marketplace.

* In April, Time Warner's AOL blocked all emails that mentioned www.dearaol.com -- an advocacy campaign opposing the company's pay-to-send e-mail scheme.

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Sun, 04 Feb 2007 12:17:15 EDT

anon :

said by ronpin :

What about Charter's VoIP getting more priority than Vonage?

It's not happening. We've covered this topic numerous times.

said by ronpin :

(did I strike a nerve?)

no, we have become use to your attempts at starting flame wars around here, with nothing to go on, but tin foil theories.

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Sun, 04 Feb 2007 11:49:27 EDT

ronpin : (did I strike a nerve?)

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Sat, 03 Feb 2007 09:34:08 EDT

ronpin :

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJab6eN6aVw

So better ping times are now a marketable item? re: »Will You Pay $15 More A Month For A Lower Ping?

Doesn't this mean that routing rules are already in place to "prioritize" certain IP's/MACs? Doesn't that mean the rest of us will, by definition, effectively get "less" priority?

I'm all for the Free Market but this sounds like a new twist on the Net Neutrality thing. It's not AT&T milking Google. It's any provider milking anyone on the network for preferential treatment.

So, how can we know if our bad ping incidents are just congestion or deliberate policy? Is there a "ping-time-ceiling" policy anywhere that can be used in a router rule? (i.e. no customer should suffer more than 60ms ping time) Is good network latency becoming a Moneyed-Class issue? Maybe it should be -- but eventually we'll all need to know what's happening. A maximum latency guarantee will be required -- since "best-effort" is apparently now a commodity.

EDIT: Slippery-Slope? not just an "express lane" but a "break-in-line" lane? What about Charter's VoIP getting more priority than Vonage? Charter's [future] ipVoD over Youtube? Does "anti-trust/anti-competitive" have any meaning here?.
--
America has been hijacked by selfish nationalist corporate pigs. The whole world hates us now. Have a nice day.

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Thu, 01 Feb 2007 08:12:10 EDT

keybrdmssiah : Thanks anon_admin. Tonight pings were great all night! Thanks a lot : )

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Thu, 01 Feb 2007 07:59:01 EDT

Curado Kev : Balance traffic - Cool :)) Makes sense since it happens every couple of months.

BTW, my pings have been awesome since you did that :)

Thanks !!!

Kev

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Mon, 29 Jan 2007 21:08:30 EDT

anon :

said by Curado Kev :

Hey anon - Can you tell us what the problem is ? In some detail and why does it happen at all ?? Does charter owe ATT money for using their routers ? Just guessing ..LOL

Just needed to balance some traffic. Charter and ATT are getting along just fine. We don't owe ATT any more cash than we already pay them. Glad you are back to smooth sailing.

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Mon, 29 Jan 2007 20:52:25 EDT

keybrdmssiah : Same isp, different areas and subnets

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Mon, 29 Jan 2007 20:51:36 EDT

anon : Tracing route to teamisolated.nuclearfallout.net:28960 [64.158.56.56]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 7 ms 8 ms 11 ms 10.72.208.1
2 11 ms 18 ms 10 ms 172.19.69.121
3 116 ms 116 ms 115 ms 172.19.69.158
4 131 ms 142 ms 130 ms 172.19.47.142
5 126 ms 121 ms 124 ms dtrtmi1wce2-gige3-1.wcg.net [65.77.89.129]
6 135 ms 130 ms 137 ms brvwil1wcx3-pos14-1.wcg.net [64.200.210.93]
7 144 ms 137 ms 138 ms 64.200.249.190
8 131 ms 132 ms 130 ms te-4-4.car2.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.68.110.37]
9 142 ms 136 ms 137 ms ae-2-52.bbr2.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.68.101.33]
10 146 ms 151 ms 146 ms as-2-0.bbr2.Washington1.Level3.net [209.247.10.1
30]
11 139 ms 140 ms 145 ms ae-11-53.car1.Washington1.Level3.net [4.68.121.8
2]
12 * * * Request timed out.

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Mon, 29 Jan 2007 20:47:48 EDT

anon : Yeah me and stoked both have the same isp and live generally in the same area, same problem every night at about 7:45 my ping jumps from 30m/s to 150m/s

Like he also said its been like this for awhile and its impossible to play at any level of competitive level, non the less what me and brian(stoked) play at :/

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Mon, 29 Jan 2007 20:42:39 EDT

keybrdmssiah : Someone needs to help me out :(

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Mon, 29 Jan 2007 20:35:19 EDT

Curado Kev : Thanks...

About 15 minutes ago, it was 8 ms for first hops and then jumped to 60ms at ATT routers.

Been better now, thanks anon charter admin stud dude or dudette ;)

Hey anon - Can you tell us what the problem is ? In some detail and why does it happen at all ?? Does charter owe ATT money for using their routers ? Just guessing ..LOL

CKev

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Mon, 29 Jan 2007 20:02:09 EDT

anon : Kev, you should see an improvement. Happi, you are a tool :)

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Mon, 29 Jan 2007 20:00:44 EDT

Curado Kev : Happi you maybe right?

Fine-in-Mich - I don't normally "whine" but as you know it does make a difference. I'll admit in August and Ocotber it was spiking around 100ms-130ms, so it was worse then.

I will tell you this when I had problems 2 years ago, I worked with net admins for 5 weeks(when they were located in Michigan) and my CS problems pinned a problem that was affecting the whole city for a month. However, us CS players noticed it. So fraggers aren't all bad - ROFL

We'll see what happens..Lower right now..

Ckev

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Mon, 29 Jan 2007 20:00:06 EDT

useless : you are wrong. Getting tired of this anon posting stuff too.

There is a bunch of competition at that level, compared to locally. For example, Charter in St Louis uses 2 companies, possibly a third. (Thought we went to only 2 recently though)

You obviously do not understand what net neutrality is about. It is about ATT charging google/yahoo/amazon/whoever more money, not Charter and ATT load balancing and BGP issues.

Please stop dropping into every thread with the same uninformed drivel about NN. I assume you are posting anon bc you would get banned otherwise.

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Mon, 29 Jan 2007 19:59:20 EDT

keybrdmssiah : It's actually not just ATT, it is 8pm and look at this trace route to a NuclearFallout.net Chicago Server (they use level3.net). Here you can see a large ping increase before even leaving charters network.

Tracing route to mutiny.nuclearfallout.net [216.52.148.191]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 3 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 8 ms 7 ms 16 ms 10.67.176.1
3 9 ms 10 ms 8 ms 172.19.69.169
4 43 ms 48 ms 44 ms 172.19.69.158
5 110 ms 106 ms 102 ms 172.19.47.142
6 119 ms 129 ms 119 ms dtrtmi1wce2-gige3-1.wcg.net [65.77.89.129]
7 117 ms 114 ms 125 ms brvwil1wcx3-pos14-1.wcg.net [64.200.210.93]
8 113 ms 116 ms 107 ms 64.200.249.190
9 123 ms 129 ms 125 ms te-4-3.car2.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.68.110.33]
10 140 ms 149 ms 135 ms ae-21-54.car1.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.68.101.98]

11 126 ms 129 ms 130 ms unknown.Level3.net [63.208.138.134]
12 125 ms 126 ms 136 ms border10.ge2-0-bbnet1.chi.pnap.net [216.52.128.1
4]
13 116 ms 125 ms 128 ms c-216-52-148-191.internap-chicago.nuclearfallout
.net [216.52.148.191]

Trace complete.

Here is a different traceroute to a different chicago server provider, velocity.

Tracing route to unknown.scnet.net [216.246.49.21]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 8 ms 16 ms 7 ms 10.67.176.1
3 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 172.19.69.169
4 42 ms 53 ms 48 ms 172.19.69.158
5 50 ms 47 ms 50 ms 24-247-236-145.static.aldl.mi.charter.com [24.24
7.236.145]
6 55 ms 59 ms 62 ms 24-247-236-109.static.aldl.mi.charter.com [24.24
7.236.109]
7 57 ms 58 ms 61 ms 24-247-63-158.static.aldl.mi.charter.com [24.247
.63.158]
8 69 ms 62 ms 64 ms 12.118.112.21
9 92 ms 90 ms 90 ms tbr2-p012401.dtrmi.ip.att.net [12.123.139.142]
10 97 ms 97 ms 100 ms tbr2-cl18.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.10.134]
11 104 ms 113 ms 98 ms ggr2-p3120.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.123.6.69]
12 90 ms 89 ms 99 ms att-gw.chicago.savvis.net [192.205.32.226]
13 94 ms 96 ms 90 ms ber2-pos-1-0-0.Chicago.savvis.net [208.175.10.98
]
14 81 ms 87 ms 80 ms ber2-tenge-3-1.chicagoequinix.savvis.net [204.70
.196.26]
15 93 ms 90 ms 106 ms 208.173.176.218
16 96 ms 92 ms 89 ms so2-1-0.j1.ord.scnet.net [205.234.158.81]
17 92 ms 90 ms 94 ms ge0-1-1000M.ar1.ChicagoEquinix.velocity-servers.
net [66.225.194.1]
18 104 ms 104 ms 105 ms unknown.scnet.net [216.246.49.21]

Trace complete.

Can a charter tech please help :( . It has been like this for 2 weeks now and it has been bad before but not like this. Kind of hard to play CAL-Invite CoD2 when you have 200 ms ping during match time, zzzzz.

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Mon, 29 Jan 2007 19:29:22 EDT

anon :

said by keybrdmssiah :

CKev, I'm having the same problem. I can't play on any servers and get decent ping during this time(Everywhere is 120+). Charter is lucky I can't get DSL or I would have ditched this crap isp a long time ago ....

Gee -- going to DSL wouldn't happen to benefit AT&T now would it? -- I mean they don't have an interest in screwing up Charter's pings now do they? That whole net-neutrality thing never amounted to anything right? :uhh:
(OK I'm cynical and I don't trust the telco's -- sorry)

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Mon, 29 Jan 2007 18:18:25 EDT

keybrdmssiah : CKev, I'm having the same problem. I can't play on any servers and get decent ping during this time(Everywhere is 120+).

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:44:45 EDT

borked : »Will You Pay $15 More A Month For A Lower Ping?

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Sun, 28 Jan 2007 22:11:33 EDT

RAMMIE : Loving my latency.
--
HUH?

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Sun, 28 Jan 2007 21:53:52 EDT

anon : Gimme a 60ms ping and I'll frag til theres nothing left to frag :)

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Sun, 28 Jan 2007 21:27:30 EDT

Curado Kev : You must not be a gamer - Nuff said..

Still happening right now..

Ckev

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Sun, 28 Jan 2007 21:18:34 EDT

anon :

said by Curado Kev :

ATT routers all spiking now...

Plots attached...

Thanks to any admins..

Ckev

um ...60ms is hardly spiking :huh:

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:18:26 EDT

Curado Kev : ATT routers all spiking now...

Plots attached...

Thanks to any admins..

Ckev

Ping Plots -···ight.zip 27,849 bytes
Ping Plots Sunday 8:15pm EST
(Ping Plots -1-28-07 2015 Night.doc)

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:55:35 EDT

Curado Kev : Thanks guys..Ususally starts aroud 7-8 pm util 10-11pm.

Keep you posted,

Kev

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:47:19 EDT

budone : What Zappa posted is pretty much what I am seeing through Charter.

I am in the low 30ms running through all ATT hops.

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:51:31 EDT

Zappa2000 : I am using a different ISP (AT&T), but doing a tracert to the same IP as last time gets the below. (Not that this means anything for Charter people, but this is more or less a FYI) Sorry to miss the lag ;)

4 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms dist1-vlan50.klmzmi.ameritech.net [67.36.55.226]
5 21 ms 20 ms 20 ms bb1-g1-0.klmzmi.ameritech.net [67.36.55.99]
6 25 ms 24 ms 24 ms bb1-p6-1.emhril.ameritech.net [151.164.188.148]
7 25 ms 24 ms 24 ms bb2-p13-1.emhril.ameritech.net [151.164.191.114]
8 25 ms 25 ms 25 ms 151.164.94.41
9 25 ms 25 ms 25 ms gar8-p330.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.79.85]
10 34 ms 34 ms 35 ms tbr2030801.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.99.66]
11 35 ms 35 ms 35 ms tbr2-cl7.sl9mo.ip.att.net [12.122.10.46]
12 35 ms 35 ms 35 ms tbr1-cl24.sl9mo.ip.att.net [12.122.9.141]
13 33 ms 33 ms 33 ms gbr1-p10.bgtmo.ip.att.net [12.122.4.69]
14 34 ms 34 ms 34 ms 12.122.248.250
15 34 ms 33 ms 33 ms 192.168.254.34
16 35 ms 20 ms 20 ms dailynews.worldnet.att.net [204.127.166.135]

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Thu, 25 Jan 2007 08:00:48 EDT

cork1958 : Not noticing anything over here this morning, so far.

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Thu, 25 Jan 2007 07:37:53 EDT

Curado Kev : I'll check again tonight and will if it continues.

It may a "blip" because since my post last August, I've had this happen at least 3 times were it acts this way for 3-4 days then goes away.

Thanks :D Ckev

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Thu, 25 Jan 2007 07:36:39 EDT

anon : Could this be AT&T's response to "Net-Neutrality"???

Re: Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:27:57 EDT

anon : Hey Kev. Just letting you know I see your post and will check into it. Feel free to throw a few trace routes up. Thanks

Here we go again-ATT Routers causing HIGH MI Pings

Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:39:41 EDT

Curado Kev : Any Charter admin - Can you look into this...

Same as my post awhile back..

»ATT Routers slow and SW Michigan - What can we do ??

Pings are 10ms and then it hits 4 - ATT routers on route to Chicago CS server from Kalamazoo - 100-115 ping on all ATT routers. It will cool down around 10pm I'm sure. Please look into it...

I'll keep monitoring it, no decent Counter Strike tonight :(

Ckev