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sweintz
Premium
join:2002-03-01
Hamden, CT
| reply to Tikker_LoS
Re: and 100% of this survey is stupid
said by Tikker_LoS  :said by inteller :They should just be happy not all their customers are "bandwidth hogs" ok, sparky! having an idea of the profile of your customers lets you build out your network accordingly BS holdover idea from telco style engineering.
Problem is, ISP's think they can oversubscribe an IP data network the way you can with a circuit switched telco network.
Wrongo. (at least IMO)
With IP data networks, given how cheap the darn hardware is (specifically high end ethernet swicthes that do layer 3 at wire speed) one can and IMO SHOULD assume 100 utilization for each and every user, and design accordingly.
Ya, you CAN oversubscribe, and MOST users (ie: people that think the web and the internet are the same thing) won't notice much of an issue.
But when my ISP starts telling me a 10% packet loss is "normal and acceptable" - then I gotta big problem with their design.
If the networks *I* designed at $dayjob had even 1/10th of 1 percent packet loss, I'd be called to the carpet pretty quickly.
Just my 2 cents. | |
sweintz
Premium
join:2002-03-01
Hamden, CT
| reply to Hall
said by Hall : Consumer-grade networks are designed and more importantly, sold, based on every customer NOT being a bandwidth hog. Exactly the problem, IMO.
If every customer used 100% of their service 24/7/365, we wouldn't be paying $20/month for DSL or $40/month for cable.
Initially, no. And I would have no issue with that. I spend $150 a month for my broadband connection at home for "business class" service, which still sucks performance wise, because at the edge, it shares the network with the consumer customers.
It's no different than the dial-up days when there was a 20-25% rule on number of incoming phone lines vs number of customers.
No, it IS different, beacuse people didn't leave dial up connections up all the time. Broadband, on the otherhand, IS left up all the time by most people. | |
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
 ·Pacific Bell - SBC
| said by sweintz :No, it IS different, beacuse people didn't leave dial up connections up all the time. Broadband, on the otherhand, IS left up all the time by most people. That doesn't mean that it is used all of that time that it is left up. I am rarely actually accessing anything on the Internet more than a couple of hours a day. Who has time to access the Internet 24/7/365? You have to eat, sleep, and procreate!
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
·EarthLink
·AT&T Midwest
 ·Earthlink Cable Mo..
| reply to sweintz
said by sweintz : If every customer used 100% of their service 24/7/365, we wouldn't be paying $20/month for DSL or $40/month for cable. Initially, no. And I would have no issue with that. I got DSL not long after it first became available in my area. $50/mo was the low-end price and I wouldn't do it... Mindspring ran a promo for $40/mo and I jumped. I paid $40-50 for years and understood that early adopters pay more. Now I pay $17.99 for 2x the speed I had then.
It's no different than the dial-up days when there was a 20-25% rule on number of incoming phone lines vs number of customers. No, it IS different, beacuse people didn't leave dial up connections up all the time. Broadband, on the otherhand, IS left up all the time by most people. You took my analogy to literally. I was referring to the concept of what some call "oversubscribing". Fact is, I used a local ISP for a number of years and I was online daily, numerous times a day. In 3-4 years time, I honestly could count on one hand the number of times I got a busy signal. They used the 25% rule and it obviously worked excellent for them.
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This is my .sig. I like it bold. | |
xsiddalx
join:2005-03-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Yahoo
| reply to Hall
I completely understand what you are saying, but you didn't answer my question. Why does the customer care about any vendors business plan? I have yet to have a discussion about shopping with anyone that has ever declared "well, that's their business plan, so I'll go with the their higher price, higher restrictions, etc..".
said by Hall :said by xsiddalx :Tell us why the customer cares about how the business model is developed? Part of their business plan includes "how much will we charge customers and still make a profit ?". If they designed their model based on each customer using 100% of their plan's ratings, 24/7/365, the network guys would have to build a much larger network. That costs more... The accounting people say "we need to make a min "X" % profit, per customer, per month". The sales/marketing people say "50% of our customers are willing to pay no more than "A" dollars per month. 40% will pay "B" dollars per month. 10% will pay "C" dollars per month." If they run the numbers and can't make the req'd profit, they walk away and not offer the service. | |
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| said by xsiddalx :I completely understand what you are saying, but you didn't answer my question. Why does the customer care about any vendors business plan? I have yet to have a discussion about shopping with anyone that has ever declared "well, that's their business plan, so I'll go with the their higher price, higher restrictions, etc..". You don't worry about the business plan. You worry about whether you think the price is fair for the service rendered. If it is, you pay it. If it isn't, you take your business to a competitor offering a lower price, or you do without.
The business plan determines whether they can make a profit, or not. If they can't sell the service at a price the customer will pay, and still make money, they won't offer the service.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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