Topic 'Re: Absolutely!!!' in forum '' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17739210 en Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:19:25 EDT Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:19:25 EDT Re: Absolutely!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17755583 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17755583 Fri, 02 Feb 2007 02:30:09 EDT Re: Absolutely!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17754442
To be fair, I believe that the "up to" rate should not be expected to be obtainable all the time. Not obtainable at all seems to be the norm.

My humble opinion--
In order to advertise a speed, the speed should be obtainable, and be so most of the time.

In my area--
The download speeds (or slightly better) are obtainable,but not as often as you might like.
Upload speeds seldom are near the 512k cap. 460-480k is the usual max.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17754442 Thu, 01 Feb 2007 22:06:17 EDT Re: Absolutely!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17751141 said by smcallah:

And the speed for your area could change, at any time. Heck, the speed for just YOUR HOUSE, can change, depending on what could be wrong.

If they can prove that their speed actually works "up to" what they say, I see no reason that they can't advertise it as such.

The one thing that all providers though need to remove from their ads or TOS is "unlimited service."

Everyone gets confused on that one.
I understand that the speeds are influenced by other events, particularly node overloads etc. But in my case, as far as I've been able to determine, there's nothing wrong at my end, so I'm talking about people who are in similar circumstances.

If, realistically, the customer is never going to get those advertised speeds, advertising it as such is akin to those "speedy weight loss" pills advertised on TV. At least those are required to clearly include a disclaimer that those people who drop a lot of weight are atypical. ;)
--
Life is simply one damned thing after another.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17751141 Thu, 01 Feb 2007 13:27:59 EDT Re: Absolutely!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17747124
If they can prove that their speed actually works "up to" what they say, I see no reason that they can't advertise it as such.

The one thing that all providers though need to remove from their ads or TOS is "unlimited service."

Everyone gets confused on that one.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17747124 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:52:50 EDT Re: Absolutely!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17746924 my TOS at least include a realistic average speed for my area.
--
Life is simply one damned thing after another.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17746924 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:23:27 EDT Re: Absolutely!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17745394 said by Surfinusa:

So far Cable (Roadrunner) is the only one that I have found to be as close as to advertised speeds. Best effort is a lottery.I guess I've just been extremely lucky with my broadband connections so far, because I have yet to subscribe to a service where I did not receive close to the max speed I have purchased. Obviously everyone's mileage varies.

- Tate

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Disclaimer for the mentally impaired: My posts reflect my personal opinions and not the views of my employer. I may work for a cable ISP, but I'm still an okay guy. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17745394 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:22:08 EDT Re: Absolutely!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17744686
They have a tool that tells what the max bandwidth is available for your line its very reliable and unlike cable it is somewhat solid. When they say you can only get 1.3mb then that's what you can expect.

To advertise you might get up to 2mb that like saying you may be a winning customer.

So far Cable (Roadrunner) is the only one that I have found to be as close as to advertised speeds. Best effort is a lottery.

If I told you I would cut your lawn and I said I would do my best effort to do so, and at the same time you have a big patch of grass I cannot seem to cut with my mower how does that help you. You would obviously look for someone else who could do the work not a best effort job.

That's just not very professional terminology.

Just look at other posts here, I'm not the only one that thinks this is ridiculous.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17744686 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:24:54 EDT Re: Absolutely!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17743794 said by La Luna:

Without even reading one more post in this thread, you can already see that statement is exactly right.

People are either truly stupid by not understanding what "up to" means, or they are using *selective comprehension*.Nail on the head. Excellently worded!

- Tate

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Disclaimer for the mentally impaired: My posts reflect my personal opinions and not the views of my employer. I may work for a cable ISP, but I'm still an okay guy. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17743794 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:59:35 EDT Re: Absolutely!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17741914 said by DownTheShore:

perhaps as a minimum speed guarantee so that people wouldn't be disappointed when their speeds never reach the currently advertised higher amounts.
Except that minimum speed could be 0bps. No one can guarantee what speeds are across the Internet. The best they can ever guarantee are speeds to a speedtest box in their main data center, or maybe as far down as the local CO/Hub.

Customers only care how fast they can download something. That's why "Up to Xmbps" should be acceptable. If people can't be made to understand what "up to" means, then that's not really the fault of people selling the service.

Heck, they could even do a special acceptance test for the customer, hook up a speedtest box at the CO end, go to the customer's house, and show them that they are getting all the way up to Xmbps. And tell them, "this is your max speed. Sign this that we have tested out that your speeds work UP TO Xmbps."

But no one can guarantee a minimum or maximum speed to any site on the Internet, and that sounds like what they want to happen. No one can say from one minute to the next how fast your download is going to be from one particular site out there, not to mention the millions of possible sites out there.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17741914 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 00:39:02 EDT Re: Absolutely!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17740672
The issue is providers via marketing hype LEADING you to think one thing but in reality giving you something less than what they want you to believe. The analogy about the gas pump could not be any clearer.

If the filling stations started doing what broadband providers do I would bet there would be ZERO misunderstanding.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17740672 Tue, 30 Jan 2007 21:11:49 EDT Re: Absolutely!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17740564 said by dynodb:

And what exactly are they misrepresenting when they make it pretty clear that maximum speeds aren't guaranteed? Providers have a responsibility to market their product fairly, but customers also have a duty to have some clue what they're buying.

When they advertise speeds "up to x meg", I fail to see where the "technicality" lies.
You are correct, they aren't "misrepresenting" a damn thing.

"Most consumers won't understand what 'up to' means and then they are significantly disappointed when they don't achieve those speeds..."

Without even reading one more post in this thread, you can already see that statement is exactly right.

People are either truly stupid by not understanding what "up to" means, or they are using *selective comprehension*.

*Yawn*, who cares...let them change the wording to "7MB, guaranteed" instead of "up to 10MB" and people will think they've pulled one over on the ISP's when they get 8 or 9MB.

Problem solved.
--
~~Well, I think you're crazy, I think you're crazy, I think you're crazy, just like me...~~

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17740564 Tue, 30 Jan 2007 20:55:57 EDT Re: Absolutely!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17740481
I agree that the ambiguity can be frustrating, but given that building a shared-resource network that supports 3M 100% of the time is much more expensive to build than one that offers 6M 90% of the time, there isn't an easy solution.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17740481 Tue, 30 Jan 2007 20:43:38 EDT Re: Absolutely!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17740163 --
[BBR]raw
America's Army
BBR Enemy Territory clan founder]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17740163 Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:52:54 EDT Re: Absolutely!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17740153 said by dynodb:

said by Sean:

said by dynodb:

You're not paying for 6M all the time, every time- read the TOS and promotional materials where they say "up to".

You may feel that it should be a solid 6M, but that's not what you were offered.
If you had the capacity to understand what was going on, you would realize that the debate is OVER the technicality. No one cares what the TOS says. What matters is what it is that you APPEAR to be buying.

The whole point in this is, there shouldn't be any misrepresentation.
And what exactly are they misrepresenting when they make it pretty clear that maximum speeds aren't guaranteed? Providers have a responsibility to market their product fairly, but customers also have a duty to have some clue what they're buying.

When they advertise speeds "up to x meg", I fail to see where the "technicality" lies.
No need to argue among ourselves, now. ;)

The point of the discussion is that the phrase "up to x meg" shouldn't be part of the TOS at all. The Australians seem to want the speed accurately stated in the TOS, perhaps as a minimum speed guarantee so that people wouldn't be disappointed when their speeds never reach the currently advertised higher amounts. That way when their speeds go higher, they're all happy campers. :)
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Life is simply one damned thing after another.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17740153 Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:51:33 EDT Re: Absolutely!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17739811 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17739811 Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:04:34 EDT Re: Absolutely!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17739726 said by Sean:

said by dynodb:

You're not paying for 6M all the time, every time- read the TOS and promotional materials where they say "up to".

You may feel that it should be a solid 6M, but that's not what you were offered.
If you had the capacity to understand what was going on, you would realize that the debate is OVER the technicality. No one cares what the TOS says. What matters is what it is that you APPEAR to be buying.

The whole point in this is, there shouldn't be any misrepresentation.
And what exactly are they misrepresenting when they make it pretty clear that maximum speeds aren't guaranteed? Providers have a responsibility to market their product fairly, but customers also have a duty to have some clue what they're buying.

When they advertise speeds "up to x meg", I fail to see where the "technicality" lies.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17739726 Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:48:26 EDT Re: Absolutely!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17739523 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17739523 Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:11:55 EDT Re: Absolutely!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17739474 said by dynodb:

You're not paying for 6M all the time, every time- read the TOS and promotional materials where they say "up to".

You may feel that it should be a solid 6M, but that's not what you were offered.
If you had the capacity to understand what was going on, you would realize that the debate is OVER the technicality. No one cares what the TOS says. What matters is what it is that you APPEAR to be buying.

The whole point in this is, there shouldn't be any misrepresentation.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17739474 Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:02:26 EDT Re: Absolutely!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17739432
You may feel that it should be a solid 6M, but that's not what you were offered.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Absolutely-17739432 Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:56:42 EDT Absolutely!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Absolutely-17739210
At least cable is somewhat consistent with there advertised speeds. But the prices is a can of worms. Yuck!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Absolutely-17739210 Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:25:06 EDT