Loker
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Fargo, ND
clubs:
1 edit | reply to batterup
Re: Unlimited...
said by batterup  :said by Loker :I agree with fiberguy.....Another problem with setting a cap is that many users will go right up to that cap every month and stop just before they cross the threshold.... So we should not post speed limits on highways as people will travel at that speed? I think it is pretty clear that is something entirely different....the government does not have to pay someone for how much you drive like ISP's have to pay for how much bandwidth you use....also your driving the speed limit will not degrade other peoples use of the public road system....
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"While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic in
Quake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Loker : also your driving the speed limit will not degrade other peoples use of the public road system.... Driving above the speed limit degrades the ability of others to use the road that is why we have speed limits. The reason Cable Companies will not post a limit is because it varies by node and time of day. If they set a limit today tomorrow the node may not be able to handle it. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | reply to Joe12345678
Well, that's an engineering problem. If you build the network correctly, this isn't an issue. |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to batterup
said by batterup :The Cable Companies can't tell you the bandwidth limit as it depends on how over sold the node you are on is. I agree. However, not all nodes are over sold when it starts.. it's not the airline, so please stop talking about it like it is. Node splits do happen.
The Cable Companies also have apologist in every forum to protect their less then honest practices.
Prove it! The way YOU speak about things, one can EASILY finger you in a similar tone. So, unless you want stones thrown at you, you should really posting in a forum like a 5 year old. The "xxx company has apologists in every forum" is simply a line to post when you have nothing intelligent to say. Just shows the lack of knowledge of a subject you posses.
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"Wipe out the national deficit over night... Tax the stupid!" - about 50 gMail invites available. PM if you'd like one. |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to batterup
There are cases where nodes can't handle it and they are addressed.. admittedly, not always as fast as people would want.. but that problem exists in all industries. People want instant gratification - an unreasonable expectation.
But, people like you also have a problem.. a very common problem. Though the market place allows people to voice their desires with the pocket books, the problem is that some people get it backwards. You are buying a service at the companies terms. It's not a socialist issue. We do not have a right to TELL them what to do. We have a right to voice our desires and exercise the right to NOT use the service.. but this notion that we have the right to dictate a companies' business practice is absurd. This is a common misconception here on BBR. You have choices... to use, or not to use. What you don't have is the right to set and order satisfaction, faster speeds, customer rights, or performance other than what is being sold.
NO wire or wireless system is perfect. This is not to say that they don't have an obligation to move on issues, but the unreasonable expectations that people expect is a joke. If a node has a sudden surge in use, you can't expect that it will get corrected in 4 hours or the day, even the next week! Cell towers over load from time to time but they don't , and they shouldn't, jump on it just because. That tower may not be over loaded tomorrow. The node that is over loaded may in fact be over loaded because you have someone or some people pushing their modems to the max which is clearly not considered typical residential use. The day it becomes TYPICAL is when everyone is doing it. THEN it's typical!
As to your driving and speed limits.. we also have minimum and maximum speeds.. and in some areas they expect slower drivers to the right in order to keep their roads flowing smoothly.. some traffic needs to go faster while other traffic doesn't. Hmmm.. now where have I heard that one before? NN anyone?
You can't have it 30 ways, as you appear to have... following your posts, it's VERY hard to follow what exactly your point ever is... you have so many! I personally think you are one of those paid people that you point the finger at others for being so often.
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"Wipe out the national deficit over night... Tax the stupid!" - about 50 gMail invites available. PM if you'd like one. |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to openbox9
said by openbox9 :I think a lot fewer people would have problems with the limited "unlimited" service if ISPs openly advertised their caps and explained their processes for throttling. ... the truth is most people don't care as they are not affected by this.. so, WHO are those PEOPLE that would feel better with knowing the caps? Heavy duty and over the top users which is not considered typical residential use.
Again, most consumers simply don't care and are not affected by this in the first place.
Even if you gave people the ability to pay for cap overages, you'd still have a network degrading problem. The ONLY thing that I personally see as a solution is to throttle their speeds back to what most residential people really need to average use.. a 512k or 768K line for the remainder of the month. Throttling the users account would be, in my opinion, fair!
With throttling, they can't clog the node any more, yet they can still run full open without affecting the node, and still, websites, email, mp3 downloads, are generally not affected. If they STILL complain about that? If they complain that it's hurting them and they need to run their modems full open 24/7 and download gobs of data, then it simply proves they are not using the service with in the terms it was designed.
One other thing that people need to remember, and understand, it's a good thing to get back to is this.. Advertising and Terms of services are two different things. An advertisement is meant to attract the consumer.. the TOS is what you are selling. People want to confuse the ad with the contract.. Rent a U-Haul truck based on the ad alone and not read what you are agreeing to. Down the road when you have a problem, you and your attorney can work together to minimize your damages. (I will agree that the ad should be honest, but no where in the ads are they selling unlimited transfer)
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"Wipe out the national deficit over night... Tax the stupid!" - about 50 gMail invites available. PM if you'd like one. |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy :You are buying a service at the companies terms. It's not a socialist issue. We do not have a right to TELL them what to do. There was a time, not that long ago, when America had the best communication system in the world. That system was available to all. The people at that time had the ability to set standards and prices for that system.
Ma Bell is dead and yet the people bitch. |
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AnonProxy
Proxy of Anon
Premium
join:2001-05-12
ß
| reply to Nick
There are two issues,
1. Pure caps...meaning that at x GB of data you are shut off for the month. That's not speed, that's a cap and that is NOT unlimited.
2. Throttling...certainly an issue but not the same as a cap.
To that end cutting speed from your pure maximum speed is an ACCESS issue...to that end if I pay for 10MB down, it's not unlimited but it is advertised a price for a speed, they should not cut my speed based on what I download. |
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AnonProxy
Proxy of Anon
Premium
join:2001-05-12
ß
| reply to dadkins
Access is a usable pipe, if they cap you at 10 GB of download a month...and then you can't access the Internet or e-mail. because you can no longer download anything, the pipe is not usable....that is not unlimited ACCESS, that's not even decent access.
By your definition, as long as they are giving you IP and you can't even go anywhere, that's proof of unlimited access.
And more so at least drop the straw man drama.
No one said I'm downloading or uploading or doing anything of the sort at the max capacity...I am offering an example, but as you seem to need to make it inflametory I will give you a simple example.
Let's say I have a business account, I have "unlimited INTERNET ACCESS" (as it is sold. I also have an web based offsite back up of my local business data. Every day I pump out about 300MB of data at 1am or so to my back up service...(I have a decent connection, 10/5)...so I do my thing, we do work every day run the office though the day use the Internet...then on day 16 or so no Internet...because why? I suddenly find out I have a total cap of 9 GB of data on my "UNLIMITED INTERNET ACCESS"
Short version, just tell people what they have, not make up some marketing term to complete.
If a rental car company said you had unlimited miles then charged you for ever mile after 300...they would end up in court by the AG of the state(s) they run in.
Unlimited means unlimited. |
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AnonProxy
Proxy of Anon
Premium
join:2001-05-12
ß | reply to dadkins
Absolutely not for this discussion.
The common vernacular of "Internet Access" means that there is the ability to access the Internet for use. |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to Michieru2
said by Michieru2 :Moron do you know what he could be transferring at all? It's idiots like you who jump to conclusions and create this hype bubble. Hell I probably use the same amount of bandwidth on simply downloading ISO's for my clients, damn updates or packages from respiratories. Hell I can't afford having tons of drives or CD's because then the crap is outdated a week later and I must re download burn and then transfer. It's easier for me to simply download it to every machine. Sounds like you should be using a BUSINESS acount then. |
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Nick
Purveyor of common sense
Premium,VIP,MVM
join:2000-10-29
Smithtown, NY
clubs:
| reply to AnonProxy
Ok, we need to clarify something...
Cable companies (while often do,) try not to piss off their customers. Lost customers = Lost Revenue
Cable companies will try not suspend your service which you equate to capping. Capping is "reducing capacity" for you to abuse the infrastructure and hinder other people's service. While before you could download at 10 megabits per second, they throttle you to half a megabit. This is not "denying you access", it's forcefully modifying your behavior in such a way that other paying customers are not affected.
Each Cable company does it differently, some will send you a warning letter saying you have been marked as using exceedingly large amounts of data. Others will throttle you as a warning. Eventually if you are considered as a repeat offender they cut you off. In the end Cable is not a right, it's not written into the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, it's a product you buy just like buying a happy meal at McDonalds, it's a business that must be profitable for it to be around.
As an excersize, locate a local place that allows you to refill your soda for free when you buy it at the place. Bring a large container with you and fill it up with your free soda and see how fast you get thrown out for abusing something you paid for.
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Stupidity, like hydrogen, is one of the basic building blocks of the Universe.
Gallery * Life * Work |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to batterup
Funny though, that my DSL continues chugging along at 6016/768 24/7 without worry about clogged nodes, cable apologists, or the threat of a nastygram due to actual use of the service. I'll start believing people like fiberguy when the cable company he works for removes server prohibitions from their TOS/AUP.
I guess those "cable hog" commercials were right afterall...
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Toolmaster of La Grange.
Save the Pacific Northwest Tree Octopus! |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to openbox9
»youtube.com/watch?v=ubc7zFSyEbg# |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
 ·Comcast
| reply to AnonProxy
Right!
Usable, not ABUSABLE.
If anyone has the need to download multi-hundred GBs of data, get something other than a residential service.
Unlimited *ACCESS* means - unlimited access to the service, not unlimited data transfers.
It doesn't matter what you or I interpret what it means, it's THEIR network!
If they say no more, you get no more!
If you agreed to this, then you are SOL!
Since I have never gone over 40GB per month, I can reasonably rest assured that I will never get a call.
Go ahead and do whatever you wish, I'll see you in Rants and Raves! 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to AnonProxy
said by AnonProxy :Absolutely not for this discussion. The common vernacular of "Internet Access" means that there is the ability to access the Internet for use. Use and abuse have two very different meanings.
Since it is Comcast's(or whomever's) network, and you & I agreed to the TOS/AUP, we have to accept whatever they say!
*WE* are free to terminate our services at any time and look for another provider.
I have nothing to worry about.
Do you?
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC | reply to BF69
Sounds like you shouldn't be so upset that he's getting a good deal from his internet provider |
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axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to operagost
Yeah, a better analogy would be the Department of Transportation limiting the number of miles you can drive in a month, because when people drive too much they have to build more roads and there's a lot of traffic.
People put up with traffic, speed limits, and state taxes, but we're not going to accept road mileage limits. What ISPs should do is continue upgrading at the pace their revenue can afford, and let people be limited by the heavy traffic. |
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FiL
Premium
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD
| reply to axus
...
sounds like whenever someones asked "why are you downloading so much" the automatic response is: updates/backups/college finals papers and excell spreads...lol
which sounds funny, pirate!
Not saying anythings wrong with that, but grow some ****'s why dont ya! |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy :Throttling the users account would be, in my opinion, fair! That is what these folks think...
»www.netequalizer.com/
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A is A |
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