Topic 'Re: the only bad thing....' in forum '' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780624 en Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:26:47 EDT Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:26:47 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17793966 said by odog:

Until BT can shed the stigma of being P2P... it is pretty hard to get it mainstream.

BT may be 55% of the internet's bandwidth, but 99% of that bandwidth is illegal :(
I don't think the dvd images of Fedora Core I downloaded via Bittorrent are illegal in any way. 99% is a little over the top IMO.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17793966 Thu, 08 Feb 2007 08:02:27 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17783642
Clearly you are a religious man. Your moral relativism actually has roots in a modern religion.

The long and short of your definition is, "The whole of the law shall be do what thou wilt?"
»www.dowhatthouwilt.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17783642 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 20:57:12 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17784713 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17784713 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 20:14:23 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17784663 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17784663 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 20:05:51 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17782690 said by karlmarx:

But, you've made an interesting point. If 99% of 55% of the internet bandwidth (i.e. 54%) is 'illegal', then isn't the law wrong? I mean, if we say over 50% of the traffic on the internet is 'illegal', then, by definition, it's NOT immoral.

"Group morality develops from shared concepts and beliefs and is often codified to regulate behavior within a culture or community. Various defined actions come to be called moral or immoral." I would argue, if the majority of the population engages in said beliefs, then no matter what the law says, our moral compass has decided that what we are doing is NOT immoral. There are many laws that tried to codify morality, but that does not mean they are good laws (prohibition comes to mind).

So, to summarize. If everyone is doing it, then it's the socially accepted standard for society, thus, cannot be considered immoral, notwithstanding what the 'law' says.
I think its time for the RIAA and MPAA to make a license to be on the internet and make the internet illegal in general, since it is "mostly" used for piracy.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17782690 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 15:08:46 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17782589
Anyone can pull stat's out their ass and claim "its nearly impossible to statistically gather".

The hell? LOL. Why even put up stats then? Just say "Its my opinion" instead of sticking to your guns and make-believe numbers...

Plus, I see many hypocrites bashing a service we know they use!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17782589 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:55:51 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17782205 said by pnh102:

What about the megacorps? Aren't they involved in this too?You have no idea.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17782205 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 13:52:29 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17782172 --
Only SHATNER is Kirk.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17782172 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 13:49:27 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17782039 said by karlmarx:

But, to the subject at hand. If society tolerates it (and we DO tolerate P2P traffic), then it's MORALLY acceptable. What gives YOU the right to judge anyone? It's a moronic christian belief system that's led to the death of more people throughout history than ANY other belief system.
People tolerated drunk driving until too many people were getting killed. Same goes for speeding. It's o.k. until someone going too fast and causes a fatal accident.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17782039 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 13:30:14 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17781860 said by odog:

You know it! But ya know... I'm probably wrong :) It's probably closer to 99.9% ;) Regardless of the exact number it is the lions share of overall BT traffic illegal. Unfortunately it is also a nearly impossible statistic to reliably gather.
I suppose the few million linux users out there downloading their linux distros using torrents is the .1%???? Or the 8 million World of Warcraft players downloading their patches is .1%???]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17781860 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 13:00:51 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17781847 said by Cod:

said by karlmarx:

But, you've made an interesting point. If 99% of 55% of the internet bandwidth (i.e. 54%) is 'illegal', then isn't the law wrong? I mean, if we say over 50% of the traffic on the internet is 'illegal', then, by definition, it's NOT immoral.

"Group morality develops from shared concepts and beliefs and is often codified to regulate behavior within a culture or community. Various defined actions come to be called moral or immoral." I would argue, if the majority of the population engages in said beliefs, then no matter what the law says, our moral compass has decided that what we are doing is NOT immoral. There are many laws that tried to codify morality, but that does not mean they are good laws (prohibition comes to mind).

So, to summarize. If everyone is doing it, then it's the socially accepted standard for society, thus, cannot be considered immoral, notwithstanding what the 'law' says.
Back in the 1940's & 1950's, I would suggest that over 50% of the German population didn't think that concentration camps, exterminating the jewish population & the "final solution" was wrong. By your line of reasoning, are you suggesting that it wasn't immoral?
The truth is the average joe public in Germany had barely an inkling of the scope of what was going on during the War!!! Most soldiers on any side of the war, have an immense amount of trouble reconciling the events.....this tragedy happened and for most people was incomprehensible. I resent you comparing your issue to Germany's genocide, it doesn't even compare on moral, psychological damage, or the immense physical harm that WWII cause for everyone on both sides.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17781847 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 12:58:17 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17781735 Finally the pretend bird flu scare will finally be realized for what it is; a tool to legitimize inserting GPS chips into everyone that will record all of our movements, conversations, and thoughts. The Dems are in it with the Aliens. They're building landing strips for gay Martians.
Obviously, we must legalize P2P if we want to stop this. It's clear and you BBR idiots can't seem to grasp it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17781735 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 12:39:57 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17781695
But, to the subject at hand. If society tolerates it (and we DO tolerate P2P traffic), then it's MORALLY acceptable. What gives YOU the right to judge anyone? It's a moronic christian belief system that's led to the death of more people throughout history than ANY other belief system.
--
Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17781695 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 12:33:20 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17781682
Every ISP report that has come out reports that the VAST majority of their bandwidth is used by a VAST minority (5-10%) of its user base. Nope, no group morality claim there.

For a stupid analogy - for a given amount of nose picking in public, if 55% of the public does it... thats group morality; but if only 5% of the people do 95% of the public picking - nope, you do not have group morality.
--
To the past, or to the future. To an age when thought is free. From the Age of Big Brother, from the Age of the Thought Police, from a dead man... greetings]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17781682 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 12:30:58 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17781536
Your quote is nothing more then someone trying to spin immoral /illegal for their own benefit. Which is typical of this society that can't accept anything as black and white but must make a gray area out of everything so no one gets offended or has their feelings hurt.

You are also mistaken a majority of traffic as a majority of user's. You can have very few users using a vast majority of the bandwidth and that does not make it acceptable by society standards.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17781536 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 12:08:34 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17781333 said by ThrowDemsOut:

said by karlmarx:

But, you've made an interesting point. If 99% of 55% of the internet bandwidth (i.e. 54%) is 'illegal', then isn't the law wrong? I mean, if we say over 50% of the traffic on the internet is 'illegal', then, by definition, it's NOT immoral.
NO.

Speeding is illegal, even though the majority of people do speed. But if you get caught, you still pay the fine. And that fact that everyone speeds doesn't change the fact that it is wrong and puts others in danger.
Breathing puts yourself and others in danger. If you promise to stop doing that, I promise to stop speeding.

-tom
--
"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." -Louis D Brandeis]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17781333 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 11:32:56 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17781276
WOULD YOU PLEASE SHUT UP, MARKIE CUBAN!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17781276 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 11:23:45 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17781075 said by odog:

Unfortunately it is also a nearly impossible statistic to reliably gather.Then the stat, no matter what the number is or who states it, is irrelevant. The **IAs can "make up" whatever statistic they desire (in their favor of course). The root of the issue is how to support BT or kill it off altogether, not whether 99.99999% of BT traffic is illegal.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17781075 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 10:43:00 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780841 said by Cod:

[Back in the 1940's & 1950's, I would suggest that over 50% of the German population didn't think that concentration camps, exterminating the jewish population & the "final solution" was wrong. By your line of reasoning, are you suggesting that it wasn't immoral?
Of course he is. He espouses the theory of "moral relativism" ( »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism )where there is no right or wrong except what anyone says it is.
--
--
My BLOG
My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780841 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 09:59:58 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780816 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780816 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 09:54:45 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780790 said by karlmarx:

But, you've made an interesting point. If 99% of 55% of the internet bandwidth (i.e. 54%) is 'illegal', then isn't the law wrong? I mean, if we say over 50% of the traffic on the internet is 'illegal', then, by definition, it's NOT immoral.
NO.

Speeding is illegal, even though the majority of people do speed. But if you get caught, you still pay the fine. And that fact that everyone speeds doesn't change the fact that it is wrong and puts others in danger.
--
--
My BLOG
My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780790 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 09:48:56 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780786 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780786 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 09:48:27 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780778 said by Maxo:

What's moral and what's legal are two different things. Oh I know, but it was still fun to hear everyone in court snicker as the guy said "everyone else was going 75 in a 55, why pick on me?"
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780778 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 09:46:47 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780761 said by pnh102:

said by karlmarx:

If everyone is doing it, then it's the socially accepted standard for society, thus, cannot be considered immoral, notwithstanding what the 'law' says.
Heh... I saw someone try to use this legal defense in court to get out of a speeding ticket. It didn't work out too well for him :)What's moral and what's legal are two different things.

Edit: Oh crap, I posted a response that has to do with karlmarx See Profile posting. Dang it!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780761 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 09:42:23 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780755 said by odog:

BT may be 55% of the internet's bandwidth, but 99% of that bandwidth is illegal :(Did you just PDOOMA those stats?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780755 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 09:41:21 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780747 everyone is doing it. Just because something is not immoral, doesn't make it legal.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780747 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 09:40:12 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780746 said by karlmarx:

But, you've made an interesting point. If 99% of 55% of the internet bandwidth (i.e. 54%) is 'illegal', then isn't the law wrong? I mean, if we say over 50% of the traffic on the internet is 'illegal', then, by definition, it's NOT immoral.

"Group morality develops from shared concepts and beliefs and is often codified to regulate behavior within a culture or community. Various defined actions come to be called moral or immoral." I would argue, if the majority of the population engages in said beliefs, then no matter what the law says, our moral compass has decided that what we are doing is NOT immoral. There are many laws that tried to codify morality, but that does not mean they are good laws (prohibition comes to mind).

So, to summarize. If everyone is doing it, then it's the socially accepted standard for society, thus, cannot be considered immoral, notwithstanding what the 'law' says.
Back in the 1940's & 1950's, I would suggest that over 50% of the German population didn't think that concentration camps, exterminating the jewish population & the "final solution" was wrong. By your line of reasoning, are you suggesting that it wasn't immoral? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780746 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 09:39:51 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780734 said by karlmarx:

If everyone is doing it, then it's the socially accepted standard for society, thus, cannot be considered immoral, notwithstanding what the 'law' says.
Heh... I saw someone try to use this legal defense in court to get out of a speeding ticket. It didn't work out too well for him :)
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780734 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 09:37:18 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780720 said by odog:

I see your point, but in most circles... P2P = piracy.Very true. Especially when they watch the news. Newsmen can simply swap the words P2P and piracy around as desired and most people's brains would process the same thing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780720 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 09:33:23 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780704
"Group morality develops from shared concepts and beliefs and is often codified to regulate behavior within a culture or community. Various defined actions come to be called moral or immoral." I would argue, if the majority of the population engages in said beliefs, then no matter what the law says, our moral compass has decided that what we are doing is NOT immoral. There are many laws that tried to codify morality, but that does not mean they are good laws (prohibition comes to mind).

So, to summarize. If everyone is doing it, then it's the socially accepted standard for society, thus, cannot be considered immoral, notwithstanding what the 'law' says.
--
Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780704 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 09:30:44 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780679 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780679 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 09:24:55 EDT Re: the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780639 said by odog:

Until BT can shed the stigma of being P2P... it is pretty hard to get it mainstream.I think you mean the stigma of being a tool for pirates. BT will always be P2P. Nothing wrong with that. Skype is P2P and it has no stigma.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-the-only-bad-thing-17780639 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 09:17:59 EDT the only bad thing.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/the-only-bad-thing-17780624
BT may be 55% of the internet's bandwidth, but 99% of that bandwidth is illegal :(]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/the-only-bad-thing-17780624 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 09:14:47 EDT