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neonhomer
Dearborn 5-2750
Premium Member
join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL

neonhomer

Premium Member

[Tech] 94 Caravan Transmission - A604/41TE - trailer pulling

I have a 1994 Caravan (SWB) with the 3.0L V6 and the A604/41TE 4spd tranny. I pull a 2500lb popup camper behind this van on occasion. I have a 19,000GVW tranny oil cooler, and a Class III hitch. The van has 105k miles on it.

I need to find a way to help the transmission survive pulling this weight. According to the manual, this van is capable of pulling this weight. However, my last outing, I had to have the van towed home because the tranny filter became plugged, starving the tranny of fluid.

I bought the van with 80,000 on it, and the fluid was clean. I haven't changed it since I bought it. I now know I need to change it every 15,000 or so. (Not a big deal). I also have a inline filter in the cooler return line.

The trailer is a 1981 Coleman Shenandoah popup camper. Loaded weight (ready to go) is about 2500lbs. It rides on 20.5x8x10 Load Range E tires. (Inflate to 90psi!!!!) I did pull the trailer with the tires a bit low (around 60 psi), and I know now to make sure they are at 90 when I pull....

Anyone else have any other tips to help?

cowspotter
join:2000-09-11
Ashburn, VA

cowspotter

Member

Get a good sized tranny cooler installed. I have one installed on my taurus and it has made a great difference in the shifts. I would suggest getting the stacked plate design. Most of these that I have seen have some design feature that allows the fluid to bypass most of the cooler until the fluid heats up. This keeps the fluid from being too cold in the winter.

neonhomer
Dearborn 5-2750
Premium Member
join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL

neonhomer

Premium Member

That's what I have.. A B&M stacked plate cooler. IIRC, it's B&M 70268...
JimmySask
join:2004-06-24
Regina, SK

JimmySask to neonhomer

Member

to neonhomer
Do you have automatic overdrive on the van? I have a '95 Plymouth Voyager, and there is just a button on the dash to turn it off. My understanding is that turning off o/d mkes towing easier on the transmission (somebody please correct me if I am wrong).

Cho Baka
MVM
join:2000-11-23
there

Cho Baka to neonhomer

MVM

to neonhomer
If you had to have it towed because the tranny filter plugged up, I would be concerned about the tranny condition.

What else besides the filter was done to repair the problem?

neonhomer
Dearborn 5-2750
Premium Member
join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL

neonhomer to JimmySask

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to JimmySask
JimmySask - The 41TE/A604 is the 4spd OD tranny. Yes, I have the OD on/off button, but the manual says to not disable OD when pulling because it can overheat the transmission. (That and the TCC lockup will not happen with the OD disabled.)

3SGTE - I towed the van home on a flatbed trailer. Upon dropping the trans pan, I found the plugged filter, and debris in the pan. Nothing shiny. I changed the fluid myself, and then took the van to the dealer to have the system flushed.

I am planning on having the transmission rebuilt, but I want the new tranny to survive.....

Dimwits
@covad.net

Dimwits to neonhomer

Anon

to neonhomer
That is plenty of weight for that dinky tranny to handle.
Oh it will handle it, but the wear and tear increases exponentially. Just like brakes on a pick up truck pulling a trailor, the brake linings need to be replaced every 5,000 miles instead of the 30,000 with out the trailor.
All that weight ground your plates away.

neonhomer
Dearborn 5-2750
Premium Member
join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL

neonhomer

Premium Member

Thats what I am thinking...

The rebuilder I have been speaking with is going to use heavier duty clutches to reduce the amount of wear.

I am going to also add brakes to the trailer so it makes it easier on the van's brakes and the transmission as well....

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds to neonhomer

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to neonhomer
»groups.google.com/group/ ··· 4544e1e3

»forums.livingwithstyle.c ··· p-1.html

»www.samarins.com/glossar ··· dex.html
Overdrive

Generally speaking, overdrive (O/D) is the highest gear in the transmission. On most cars the automatic transmission has 3 speeds and overdrive (fourth speed). Overdrive allows the engine to have less rpm with higher speed for better fuel efficiency. When you switch it on, you allow the transmission to shift into overdrive mode after a certain speed has been reached (usually 30-40 mph depending on the load). When it's off, you limit transmission shifting to third speed. In normal driving conditions the overdrive should be always on. You may need to switch it off if you drive in a mountainous area. [The automatic transmission automatically shifts from O/D to 3rd gear when it feels more load. When it feels less load it shifts back to O/D, but under certain conditions, e.g., driving uphill or towing a trailer, the transmission cannot decide whether to stay in O/D or shift into 3rd speed and it starts shifting back and forth. That's the time when you may switch the O/D off and help the transmission to decide] .
You also may need to switch it off when you want to slow down using the engine braking, for example, if you're driving downhill. For more details, check your owner's manual
Turn OD off if you feel the trans shifting a lot in and out of gears (aka gear hunting). On hilly roads OD off.

Install a transmission temperature gauge. Get used to the normal temp and then you will know later if the trans is under strain as the temp will rise.

You already have an extra external cooler and I'd be careful of an inline filter causing a restriction that produces heat or higher pressure. Make sure the inline filter is the flat screen type that can be cleaned.

Note: Remember that if you don't bypass the internal cooler for the transmission, that the engine overheating can overheat the trans. You don't have to bypass it, but do remember that overheating of the engine sometimes leads to trans overheating.


Internal trans cooler in radiator


Regards,

Doctor Olds

shambler
YEAH-That's the ticket..
Premium Member
join:2000-09-19
Miami, FL

shambler to neonhomer

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to neonhomer
Take out that filter in the return line, as it will cause too much restriction (as pointed out by Doctor Olds). If you can work with the rebuilder, have him get an aftermarket heavy duty rebuild kit, such as a B&M or Turbo-Action, etc. if one is available, or at least the best clutches/steels you can find. Some clutch drums can accomodate more clutches and steels than stock(If the stock forward drum has 4 clutches and steels, he may be able to put in 5 or 6 at the time of the rebuild).

Also try to get a shift improver kit for the valve body to firm up the shifts. Softer (factory) shifts are for comfort and reduce the life of the clutches (designed slippage) and raise the operating temp, which further reduces clutch/seal and transmission oil life. Also, as Doctor Olds said, a transmission temp guage would be VERY beneficial! Make SURE your torque converter is clean, or replace it (recommended) with a GOOD quality aftermarket.
I've seen "new rebuilts" fail quickly. And flush out all lines and coolers with the tranny out.

Cooling is critical, but it sounds as if you already have that covered. Also, a deep pan and sump (if available) will increase fluid capacity and greatly aid in cooling.
Good Luck!

neonhomer
Dearborn 5-2750
Premium Member
join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL

neonhomer

Premium Member

The rebuilder is going to see if more clutches will fit.

I have used these inline filters before without problems. They are more of a magnetic particle filter than a paper element filter. (Magnefine is what they are called)

We are talking a transmission in a minivan, not a 727 behind a big block in a Duster..... There is a limited amount of stuff that can be done. They do make a "Shift kit" but it is aimed more at restoring shift quality in a wore out transmission. There are a couple of things the rebuilder says he can do, including a "Performance Shift Improver Kit".

A new torque converter is a given. However, they dont make performance TC's for minivans! LOL...

Since all my cooler lines are rubber (not too far to travel), I have going to just have them replaced. The cooler s in the van are the original radiator cooler (it runs from top to bottom instead of side to side...) and the aforementioned B&M stacked plate cooler. I don't know if they will be able to flush this one out or not, so I might have to replace it. ($50 from Summit Racing..)

Deep pans are not available, but I thought about getting a couple of pans from the junkyard and making my own....

I am also going to do the tranny fluid temp gauge. The most common setup I have seen for these vans is putting a sensor in the input and output lines for the cooler, defaulting to the output. With a simple switch, you can toggle between input and output temps.

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds

Premium Member

Sounds like you have a great game plan in action.

In regards to the aftermarket external cooler. It should be able to be flushed without any issues. It would only need replacement if it has leaks or physical damage or if it is restricted in flow and you will be able to tell that when flushing it out.

Regards,

Doctor Olds

shambler
YEAH-That's the ticket..
Premium Member
join:2000-09-19
Miami, FL

shambler to neonhomer

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to neonhomer
Sorry if I sounded like Mr. Knowitall, that wasn't my intention. I DID read your post, and do realize the application. I was suggesting only the most common mods
that can be done to almost any tranny provided that the parts are available. I enjoy being able to give others the benefit of my experience, if I can

Regarding the filter; as long as there's no restriction, you're set. And even a shift improver kit will make a big difference in longevity. As for the TC, a good quality stock one will be fine. I just don't want to see your new rebuild get trashed by an inferior rebuilt TC, because I've seen that happen.

If you can fabricate a deep pan, it's worth the effort. You should make a sump extension, too, if you can, so that the filter won't be sucking air when turning corners. Ideally, the bottom of the filter should be about 1/2" from the pan.

That's a great idea with the trans. temp guage! Not only can you see the in and out temps, but you'll be able to tell how effective your cooler is!

neonhomer
Dearborn 5-2750
Premium Member
join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL

neonhomer

Premium Member

As long as anything else doesn't go wrong, I will probably be taking the van to have the tranny rebuilt on Monday.

The inline filter was put in to catch anything that remained in the cooler and to keep it from going into the tranny. I think I will put one on the new one as well, just to make sure.

One thing.... The rebuilder said something about using Raybestos "Red Resin" clutches. I know Transtar makes a
Hi-energy clutch kit, which uses Kevlar in the clutches.... I thought about using those, but am worried about getting too much bite......
neonhomer

neonhomer

Premium Member

DOH! Something I forgot to ask....

Do you think it would be out of line to ask to see the old clutches/bearings/seals/parts etc etc?

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds

Premium Member

Not at all. Just ask for them to be saved as you want to see what they looked like.

neonhomer
Dearborn 5-2750
Premium Member
join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL

neonhomer

Premium Member

Hmm, almost thought about seeing if the guy would let me hang out and watch him rebuild it, and get some pictures for my Cardomain page.

shambler
YEAH-That's the ticket..
Premium Member
join:2000-09-19
Miami, FL

shambler to neonhomer

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to neonhomer
NO WAY! You are ENTITLED to have the old parts back. And if your mechanic/rebuilder is honest, he will have saved them, so that he can show them to you and explain which parts were bad.
shambler

shambler to neonhomer

Premium Member

to neonhomer
said by neonhomer:

As long as anything else doesn't go wrong, I will probably be taking the van to have the tranny rebuilt on Monday.

The inline filter was put in to catch anything that remained in the cooler and to keep it from going into the tranny. I think I will put one on the new one as well, just to make sure.

One thing.... The rebuilder said something about using Raybestos "Red Resin" clutches. I know Transtar makes a
Hi-energy clutch kit, which uses Kevlar in the clutches.... I thought about using those, but am worried about getting too much bite......
Use the Kevlar clutches IF they are not too outrageously priced, but the raybestos clutches are of very good quality, also. You can never have too much bite when it comes to clutches (IMHO), because more bite translates into less clutch wear and lower fluid temps.
shambler

shambler to neonhomer

Premium Member

to neonhomer
said by neonhomer:

Hmm, almost thought about seeing if the guy would let me hang out and watch him rebuild it, and get some pictures for my Cardomain page.
He may, depending upon how busy and/or self-conscious he is. Some mechanics REALLY dislike that, while others don't mind. If he doesn't mind, it would be a good learning experience, and you'd get some great pics!