Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
1 edit | reply to fatmanskinny
Re: It's amazing....
This really isn't anything new, but it's high time that people start getting concerned. Basically, using wireless access points IS the new anonymous portal to the internet. As long as you don't have any responsibility over the network, you're free to do basically whatever you want. (I realize that legally that is not the case)
Regardless, I doubt it will ever be possible to fully eliminate every single unlocked/insecure AP. My own surveys have shown that roughly 2/3rds or less of people are running any encryption, including the worthless old WEP.
Filtering isn't going to do anything in the long run, it's more of a band-aid fix than a real solution. Perhaps one of the best way to combat this for real big public "hotspots" would be to use a captive portal system that somehow requires users to disclose a real identity. This is hard, but would it be possible to say, run a credit card through and charge a paltry 1 cent? Just to establish some user history? Even that will probably fail, because users can just as easily setup their own AP (joe's wifi cafe) without any grandiose authentication.
As long as the user is mobile, it will be equally as difficult to keep any user identity identification in place. |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
| said by Nerdtalker  :As long as the user is mobile, it will be equally as difficult to keep any user identity identification in place. Just like with the Vin# burned into every car(and now on many of the parts as well) sold in the US to help track car thieves, we need a system where every device capable of communicating must have a serial number that is burned into the chip and that must communicate that number before access can be given to transfer data.
And every communications capable device being sold would match its serial number or numbers with the name and address of the person buying the device. In effect you would have a national registry matching a person with the devices they own and it could track everytime that device links to a provider network.
Of course, there would be hot, stolen devices - just like there is with cars and guns. But 95% of the devices would be able to be traced back to a specific person. Of course, all the people who think they have a right to privacy will whine, but I never hear them whining about how their car can be tracked back to them.
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raccettura
join:2002-09-28
USA
| reply to GOLFnSUN
Re: It's amazing....
This already exists in a way, each network device has a unique MAC address.
1. It can be forged/modified
2. It only lives between the first hop. So hard to track.
Fixing #2 would require a massive undertaking in changing how TCP/IP works... and cost way more than anyone would even invest. |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| said by raccettura :This already exists in a way, each network device has a unique MAC address. 1. It can be forged/modified I was thinking about an encrypted serial number that couldn't be forged.
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Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| said by GOLFnSUN :I was thinking about an encrypted serial number that couldn't be forged. Sadly (or for the better), that's an illusion of wishful thinking.
Conceivably, that "serial number" should already exist in the form of a mac address, but even that isn't worth anything, at all.
As long as the user controls the product, there will remain a way for it to be tampered with, period.
The day that simple fact of logic becomes false is the day I throw my computer away, lock myself inside, and sigh myself into a catatonic state, because that day, freedom of speech and anonymity is truly dead.
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Spam: 12900+ messages currently using 406 MB. |
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roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
| reply to Nerdtalker
Re: It's amazing....
said by Nerdtalker :Perhaps one of the best way to combat this for real big public "hotspots" would be to use a captive portal system that somehow requires users to disclose a real identity. This is hard, but would it be possible to say, run a credit card through and charge a paltry 1 cent? Not everyone has a credit or debit card. Besides, doing something like this would probably lead to more identity theft (stealing card numbers on an even larger scale, etc.)
-SC
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said to me: "it seems like all you ever buy is Abercrombie and cell phones"  |
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gatorkram
Spelling and Grammer impared
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
clubs: | reply to GOLFnSUN
You make me sick. |
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russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA | reply to GOLFnSUN
Wow, you're not going for half measures; you want to institute the surveillance state whole hog. You work for Fatherland Homeland Security by any chance? |
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Stumbles
join:2002-12-17
Port Saint Lucie, FL | reply to GOLFnSUN
There isn't anything that can't be forged. |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
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| said by Stumbles :There isn't anything that can't be forged. That is true. But you can make it very hard to do for the vast majority of users. That is the game that law enforcement plays all the time.
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
 ·Fairpoint Communic..
1 edit | supporting a police state? Of course..
Ask yourself this question. If you pass these laws you want (i.e. require everyone to have a monitored, licensed connection to the internet, where your entire history, every post, every site you visit, every e-mail is recorded. Ask yourself if you'd feel comfortable with that law if you knew that I would be in charge of it. You know, of course, that I would use the law to have the secret police arrest you, for your seditious postings.
The constitution exists to protect us. Freedom of speech CANNOT be assured if everyone has to register to speak. So, pass your 'save the children' laws, but don't be suprised when the men in black come for YOU.
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asdfdfdfdf
@Level3.net
| reply to GOLFnSUN
spoke he who believes the government should stay the hell out of our lives. It's a shame you have no love of individual liberty to match your love of corporate liberation.
VIN numbers on cars don't transmit themselves and don't leave a trail of data, linked to you, as to where you have been and what you have been doing the whole time you have been using them.
This is the single most appalling idea you have espoused on these forums. |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to GOLFnSUN
said by GOLFnSUN :said by raccettura :This already exists in a way, each network device has a unique MAC address. 1. It can be forged/modified I was thinking about an encrypted serial number that couldn't be forged. Hah... Anything that has a software component can always be changed. Get used to it. And, no matter how hard you try to make it, that difficulty will only last for a VERY short while. There's a joy in breaking protections and there's a joy in making it so others can break protections easily so that the protection is utterly destroyed.
-tom
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"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." -Louis D Brandeis |
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c0de
join:2004-10-14
Richmond, VA
| reply to GOLFnSUN
Oddly enough, I will agree with you. The ammount of illegal activity that happens over the internet (espically with sexual predators) is at an all time high. And most of these people are actually smart/insane enoungh to use public WiFi.
As for the serial number, why not. establish it as a serial number associated with the owner. some sort of registry. this im sure would be very hard to do, but i don't see it being to far feched.
Also, does anyone remember the P3(or was it P4) that has the embeded serial id that can be turned on and off? |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA | Sheesh, while we're at it, why don't you suggest we each just have our Social Security number tattooed on our foreheads?
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! |
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c0de
join:2004-10-14
Richmond, VA | umm the tattoo is a bit extreme, but its not too far off from reality. they are employing RFID chips into drivers licens & id cards in the near future... |
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gatorkram
Spelling and Grammer impared
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
clubs:
·Embarq
 ·linode
1 edit | reply to GOLFnSUN
said by GOLFnSUN :said by Nerdtalker :As long as the user is mobile, it will be equally as difficult to keep any user identity identification in place. Just like with the Vin# burned into every car(and now on many of the parts as well) sold in the US to help track car thieves, we need a system where every device capable of communicating must have a serial number that is burned into the chip and that must communicate that number before access can be given to transfer data. And every communications capable device being sold would match its serial number or numbers with the name and address of the person buying the device. In effect you would have a national registry matching a person with the devices they own and it could track everytime that device links to a provider network. Of course, there would be hot, stolen devices - just like there is with cars and guns. But 95% of the devices would be able to be traced back to a specific person. Of course, all the people who think they have a right to privacy will whine, but I never hear them whining about how their car can be tracked back to them. What else do you advocate in protecting the masses from themselves? Mandatory random road stops, you know, just to make sure you aren't breaking any laws. And hey, while we are at it, why not mandatory random home invasions by the gvmnt too, you know, just to make sure everything is ok, and no laws are being broken. What a wonderful world it would be.
I already feel so much safer with just the idea of these plans being put into actions.
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| said by gatorkram :What else do you advocate in protecting the masses from themselves? Mandatory random road stops, you know, just to make sure you aren't breaking any laws. I already feel so much safer with just the idea of these plans being put into actions. Random road stops are already legal and carried out across the US.
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