cowsgonemadd
join:2007-02-24
Ware Shoals, SC
| What type of towers do you use? Since my tower might not be high enough if the biz. grows I wondered what type of tower you all use.
Self standing or guyed?
I can get a 190ft self standing tower thats big at the bottom and gets smaller at the top.
For about 17k.
How tall are your towers?
Aren't self standing more expensive?
Does guyed ones move way up in the sky because that would mess the link up.
Can a guyed tower go higher than self standing? I would want something over 130ft or so. Maybe like 170ft.
Hope to see some info on what you all use.
Thanks | |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp | Re: What type of towers do you use? You can get a guyed tower to 2,000 feet...or more.
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A is A | |
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 | LLigetfa
join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
| Re: What type of towers do you use? In your other thread you mention an old water tower and that you can get 75 feet elevation from it. How much mast on top of the water tower gets you 75 feet?
Can you post photos of the water tower? YOu may be able to push 50 feet of popup mast on top of the existing water tower height. You might be able to guy a length of residential tower to make it easier to climb.
Residential towers start at about $10 per foot while commercial free-standing towers are closer to $100 per foot. | |
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| | ibliz
join:2007-01-24
1 edit | Re: What type of towers do you use? said by UHF  :In theory. The FAA will not approve towers over 2,000 feet anymore. The one I work under is 1,976 feet. Holy moley, 1976 feet ? Tallest building is currently the Taipei 101 building at 1671 feet. That guyed tower must be the tallest structure in the world. What's the hiring rate for circus monkeys to climb, install and point the antenna ?  | |
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UHF
All static, all day, Forever
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-24
clubs: | Re: What type of towers do you use? This tower is a television broadcast tower. There's a slightly taller one just a few miles away. I think the tallest tower is in North Dakota.
I don't climb it. | |
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join:2007-01-24 | Re: What type of towers do you use? damn it, I have to climb to the top of that tower someday and see for myself what brand of surge arrestors they use. | |
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LLigetfa
join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
| said by cowsgonemadd :Does guyed ones move way up in the sky because that would mess the link up. NOt sure I understand what your asking and why would it "mess the link up"? I thought we had talked you out of an omni in your other thread. A guyed tower would be more rigid than a free-standing one. Not sure why you would think different.
We have free-standing towers upto 130 feet and guyed upto 300 feet. | |
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slipstream1
Premium
join:2005-11-15
Jacksonville, TX | In reality, when you take into account the acquisition of the additional real estate and the additional labor involved in guyed tower construction, the costs are about the same. It comes down to do you have 1 acre or 10 acres? | |
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cowsgonemadd
join:2007-02-24
Ware Shoals, SC
| "The one I work under is 1,976 feet."
No way!! You climb it? You own it with this wifi?
I need to see a pic my my my.
I meant by saying does it move like do they wobble any or are the wires so tight it cant move a bit.
A photo of it is right here:
»img263.imageshack.us/img263/5092···0jk6.jpg
The tower is 65 feet or so and a 10 foot mast I would add to it to get the antenna's away from the metal barrel.
I saw some pop up masts that go up to 80 feet!
As far as land I could not place this anywhere on our farm land but back behind my house we could use possibly 1.5 acres. It might be more I am not sure how big it is.
How much room would I need for say a 190ft guyed tower? | |
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| LLigetfa
join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
| Re: What type of towers do you use? Popups are OK for client installs but a PITA for a POP to service. I have heard of some daredevils actually climb a mast but I would advise against it.
If the top of that tank is solid enough, you could consider a Glen Martin quad mount like the 17.5 foot RT-1832 on top of it. You could guy it to the water tower legs for extra safety. A 10 foot mast above that would put you around 92 feet AGL.
Still, it would be marginal in height so a taller guyed tower away from the water tower would be the way to go. You need as much area out from the base of the tower as the tower is tall. Minimum guy spacing is 80% of the tower height.
»www.glenmartin.com/industrial/pg17.htm | |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| said by cowsgonemadd :"The one I work under is 1,976 feet." No way!! You climb it? You own it with this wifi? I need to see a pic my my my. The tower in question here is owned by the posters employer I am sure?. (if not?, I am REALLY jealous!  )
I always install guyed towers. For me it is much cheaper because the labor is free. I would warn you though about trying to setup a 190ft guyed tower without any experience, as it can get ugly really quickly, especially if you are at say the 100ft mark and the already erected sections fail while you are on the top try to install the next section. I know of quite a few people who in their inexperience erected guyed towers with different sections that were bought at yard sales, consignment sales etc. and the sections were never properly inspected for bad welds, rusted joints yada yada. Keep in mind that even if the outside of a tower section looks great and well maintained, the tubes each section is made from can rust internally and thin out the walls of the tubing causing collapse when enough weight or torque is applied. The bottom line is be damn careful!. 
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»www.wavecrazy.net Join WISPA today! »www.wispa.org/ | |
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UnwiredTX
join:2005-11-09
Cameron, TX
| I have some cool pics of a BIG tower from atop the upper deck of one of our little old ATT towers. This is the 1800' KXXV tower that a Blackhawk helicopter crashed into one of the guy wires of a few years ago. The crash killed all the crew members aboard.
»www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/1111567.html
I'll give some narration and links to pics. The tower these pics were taken from the top of is 180'... which is just BELOW the first set of guys on the big TV tower out in the field (FIRST set of guys at about 180'!!!).
»img164.imageshack.us/img164/7686···yno1.jpg
Here's a view of the top of the TV tower (from atop my 180 footer).
»img181.imageshack.us/img181/874/toptu9.jpg
In another of the pics, you can see the guy wires of the TV tower extending out BEYOND the free-stander I'm standing on. The site it is constructed on ENCOMPASSES our 180 foot free-stander. (Guy wires extend out about 1000'.)
»img187.imageshack.us/img187/8466···squ7.jpg
Pretty amazing tower. Near Moody, TX... in the same area as a LOT of tall TV towers. You can see some in the distance in the pic below.
»img408.imageshack.us/img408/4250···sqt0.jpg
KCEN-TV here has a 1924 footer which was, at the time of construction, the tallest tower in the nation (in 1981).
The key that many people seem to be missing is that on these huge TV towers, most have an elevator built into them. They're THAT big. So, consequently, there's very little climbing involved. Amazing massive structures.
I've built a number of Rohn towers between 150-200' tall, but would love to one day work on one of those huge ones. | |
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cowsgonemadd
join:2007-02-24
Ware Shoals, SC
| How does these guyed towers go up?
We have a farm and have loaders and such to hold things but I am unsure how you put one up. Do you pay people or is it simply piece by piece?
8000 or so for a 200 foot guyed tower sounds nice one of you mentioned. I would go for the 190ft one though so I would not have to mess with all the registering and such. I think I would still add a light.
I doubt I could climb a 2000ft tower. My legs would be jello before I got up and down.
Any other sites where they sell towers or where you buy towers would be nice.
I hope this all works.
I really hope I can get a customer to buy my internet as I have AT&T in my area and a local phone company and with those bundle plans I doubt anyone would cancel them to save 10 bucks a month on DSL but you never know. Not everyone has bundles anyways. | |
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UnwiredTX
join:2005-11-09
Cameron, TX
| Putting up a tower requires tons of planning and engineering. For a guyed tower in the 200' range, we use a gin pole (erection fixture) and rope. The pole clamps to a leg of the tower. The pulley atop the pole slides up to ten or so feet above the top of the tower. A worker (or preferably, capstan winch) on the ground pulls a section of tower up to the top of the gin pole, then a worker up top seats it and bolts it in place. Jump the gin pole up to the top of the new section, pull up another section, add guy wires, if necessary, rinse and repeat. Once the guy rods and tower foundation are poured, myself and 2 workers can stack 150' of tower (including guy wires) in 3 work days if the wind is good.
Visit sites like radian/rohn, trylon, etc. for tower research, tessco.com sells tower kits, and Comtrain USA is the best place for tower climbing/construction training and certification. Tessco also sells safety supplies (harnesses, ropes, etc... I like DBI/Sala).
I can answer most specific questions, but I can't really tell you what type of tower you need. | |
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cowsgonemadd
join:2007-02-24
Ware Shoals, SC | "A 10 foot mast above that would put you around 92 feet AGL."
What does AGL mean? I was confused because the tower is like 65 ft tall and 10 more ft would be 75ft.
Thanks | |
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| LLigetfa
join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON | Re: What type of towers do you use? AGL = Above Ground Level
OK, we can do the math...
Water tank = 65 feet
GME tower = 17.5 feet
mast = 10 feet
65 + 17.5 + 10 = 92.5 feet. | |
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cowsgonemadd
join:2007-02-24
Ware Shoals, SC
| "Bonks self on head"
I thought the roof mount was it. I thought that cancelled out the mast but I do remember now you add masts to the roof mounts.
From that 17.5ft mount how much of a mast could I add?
Like when working in the antenna's or upgrading you just shrink the mast down and then back up when done correct? | |
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| LLigetfa
join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
| Re: What type of towers do you use? said by cowsgonemadd :From that 17.5ft mount how much of a mast could I add? Like when working in the antenna's or upgrading you just shrink the mast down and then back up when done correct? Because of the narrow spacing og the water tower legs, the angle of the guys limit the height. I have some real concerns about how strong the top of that old water tank is to be able to hold the GME tower. You may want to weld up a pair of saddles to reinforce the tank. The most you could collapse the mast down into the GME tower is 17 feet. Depending on what you mount to the mast, what guage the mast is, and where you guy it, I would not put more than a 20 foot mast on it. Some of that 20 feet will stay inside the GME so you would only have around 15 feet of additional height.
When I mentioned a popup mast, I did not yet see your water tower and in my mind's eye it was much larger. As I mentioned earlier, standard guying practice puts the base of the guy at 80% of the height. You certainly don't have that. | |
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cowsgonemadd
join:2007-02-24
Ware Shoals, SC
| At least not in that area.
I think my best bet is to start with this tower here. Hit who I can and upgrade as the demand increases.
When I need a new tower I will go for the full 190ft guyed tower and put it on my land in my back yard.
But then again according to RM maps I have been getting I might not be able to hit many people so a tower might be a must first off. I will have to debate this.
Concrete would be a lot just to set the guyed tower base. Do they not burry it in 5ft of concrete? Its what I saw on a pdf file that was linked here.
If I use my tower I will just make a homemade mast, brace it up well and put some sectors up there and have fun. | |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
 ·CenturyLink
| Re: What type of towers do you use? said by cowsgonemadd :If I use my tower I will just make a homemade mast, brace it up well and put some sectors up there and have fun. You DID notice that you have high voltage lines immediately adjacent to your tower, eh?
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cowsgonemadd
join:2007-02-24
Ware Shoals, SC | Regular power lines, yes I did notice. Whats wrong? | |
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gunther_01
Premium
join:2004-03-29
Saybrook, IL | I found this the other day, it looks like it is a decent tower. I don't know realy but reads well.
»www.anwireless.com | |
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| | gunther_01
Premium
join:2004-03-29
Saybrook, IL
| Re: What type of towers do you use? I was doing some long term planing the past week or so. Stumbled across AN after looking at Trylon and others. After looking at the specs of their HD series I almost feel in love. That's one heavy duty dude, and just what I was looking for in a 60-80 foot self supporter. Short of a tornado, it reads like it's gonna stand up to anything mother nature throws at it. Of course within loading specs and proper installation. | |
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cowsgonemadd
join:2007-02-24
Ware Shoals, SC | To bad they cant put up a tower bigger than 120ft. | |
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| gunther_01
Premium
join:2004-03-29
Saybrook, IL
| Re: What type of towers do you use? I think once you get in to those heights with a self supporter it's more of a custom build thing at that point. Of course there are companies that will accommodate you$$$$ for that need.  | |
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| | j2sw
join:2006-05-02
Williamsport, IN
| Re: What type of towers do you use? Rohn 25 is good to around 125ish feet if you follow specs. Nice cheap and good guyed tower.
You can get some good 190 foot free standing towers. As mentioned before 200 feet and above requires FAA paperwork, etc. Plan on a year or so to get approved. If you go this route you really need someone who has done the process before.
I like ROhn 25/45 because they are easy to put up, and cheap enough. IMHO 10 120 foot towers give you better coverage that one 300 foot tower and costs are pretty close.
Justin | |
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AMD Phreak
Premium
join:2003-12-14
| Re: What type of towers do you use? From what I have been told, (we do towers a lot) if you can afford the Rohn 45 you should put it up instead. There are a lot of options that open up when you put a 45 in. More antennas, it can support larger dishes, plus you might have enough expansion room on it that you can resell space to others and recoupe some of the cost that you put into it.
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"No job is so important, and no service is so urgent that we cannot take the time to do it safely."
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| | | | j2sw
join:2006-05-02
Williamsport, IN | Re: What type of towers do you use? 45 will hold more for sure. 25 is fairly easy to find though. Most houses, at least in the midwest, have rohn tv towers. The majority of them are either cheapy rohn tower or rohn25.
Justin | |
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cowsgonemadd
join:2007-02-24
Ware Shoals, SC
| I am sure 10 smaller towers would have good coverage or better than one big one as this is what cell co's do.
But wouldnt it cost a lot more?
I mean it would require:
LAND(rented for what? or bought say 1 acre=4000 bucks)
More Radios and antenna's
I guess you dont just put up a repeater on all the towers just some? or all? Or you would have to get a new connection to each of them by FAST dsl or fiber.
Power hooked up to each tower so more of a power bill. Considering these things use like no power it wouldnt be much.
Do people just let you put towers on their land for cheap or do they demand like 1000 bucks or so like they would with a cell co?
I guess saying you would get free internet isnt going to be enough to warrant a 120ft tower in their back yard and maybe your visits here and their to check up on something or whatever.
I guess you could always buy land. At 4k a acre factor in 40k plus the cost of 10 120ft towers(6k per tower?) 60k for the towers and then the radios and 4 sectors on each tower? so add in another 8k for that.
Grand total:
108 thousand or so.
Give or take. ha ha
Of course you would do this as demand increased. | |
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PersComp
Premium
join:2005-08-17
Cayce, SC
| Re: What type of towers do you use? Well, that makes a decent starting point and all, but you would think that they would have planned for when they got bigger.... 
Damn, would that thing have bigger issues with wind loading or just bulk weight????? lol
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Are these instructions or corrections??? | |
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VariableARK
join:2003-03-17
USA
1 edit | Anwireless seems good for shorter stuff, but i cant use this past 70ft
Sabre towers are what I am looking at now for anything over 70ft (county requires 90mph wind loading) Prices seem good.
In both cases I am looking at self-supporting, and this is the first tower I am putting up. Everything else is either existing structures or aquired.
Do most of you put up your own towers or rent off others?
I wish 1 acre = $4000 here! | |
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PersComp
Premium
join:2005-08-17
Cayce, SC
| Scout around for some local water towers. I know you posted a pic of one in another thread. You may be able to get from it to others. Most around here are between 70' and 100', so they are viable options. I am currently working with a local water dept manager to try to get on several of his. I'll post the results...
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Are these instructions or corrections??? | |
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Unlit
@centurytel.net
| Re: What type of towers do you use? If you get on the water towers how quick would you go live ? We have a WISP in our area that got permission for 5 water towers 2 months ago. He hasnt done 1 install on any of them yet. There is a huge demand for his service too. I would be installing like crazy unless he cant aford it ? | |
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| | gunther_01
Premium
join:2004-03-29
Saybrook, IL
| Re: What type of towers do you use? said by Unlit :
If you get on the water towers how quick would you go live ? We have a WISP in our area that got permission for 5 water towers 2 months ago. He hasnt done 1 install on any of them yet. There is a huge demand for his service too. I would be installing like crazy unless he cant aford it ?
It does take some time to do AP site survey's, aquire pieces and parts, line up labor etc. etc.... Getting access is one of the first steps. No point in doing a lot of things until then. | |
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| | j2sw
join:2006-05-02
Williamsport, IN
| That could be part of the their strategy. It's part of ours. We have agreements on the books for 25 sites we have nothing on yet. It's all about planning. I want to know that 4 months from now I have a place I can put our gear on once we get to that area. In order to get here I may have to go 5 hops, with only 3 of them live at this point in time.
Justin | |
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