Re: Utilize wireless(wi-fi) type producst for customers? in Wireless Service Providers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r17929027 en Sat, 28 Nov 2009 06:16:36 EDT Sat, 28 Nov 2009 06:16:36 EDT Re: Utilize wireless(wi-fi) type producst for customers? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17940345 gunther_01 : Well, ya know,

I support many issues and problems that technically are not mine. Like most of us. But, point in fact I am here to make money :). It is a business. So, if they mess it up whether it is mine or not I bill um for a truck roll. I even bill for other issues that are not my fault.

I see no problem in selling a customer a router. And selling them support of that router. It's not part of my Internet service so support problems for the router are going to be charged for. I support enough now that I didn't sell to them, I should be selling them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17940345 Sun, 04 Mar 2007 09:16:11 EDT Re: Utilize wireless(wi-fi) type producst for customers? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17939488 Chele : I used to buy the stacks of routers for $20-30 then resell them for $75. I would make a tidy profit, until I realized how much time I was using supporting local networks. Life is so much easier now that I don't sell the routers. If you are hardset on selling the routers, buy a bunch at once and keep them on the shelf. They do sell, specially if you buy well known brands. I always had good luck with Netgear, and OK luck with Linksys. I would clean out the local retailers(Netgears) when they went on sale or when I had coupons(never rebates). Get yourself very familiar with the ones you sell so that you can guide customers over the phone. And good luck.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17939488 Sun, 04 Mar 2007 00:28:31 EDT Re: Utilize wireless(wi-fi) type producst for customers? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17937081 superdog :
said by gunther_01 See Profile :

I don't sell the router to them, yet. But I will. And I will gladly help them or bill them when It gets reset
That my friend, may be the first day of the rest of your miserable life, LOL!.
We have setup wireless routers in the past, with the understanding that the first time is free, second time is a bill. It is very easy to show them the technical support # on the box the router came in. All in all, we have had great success with this setup. The one thing I teach all my customers is not to plug in our radios in any other port but the WAN. I then note that if they do, and I have to clean up that mess, it is their issue and their bill (a big one at that!). We run DHCP, so having a Linksys unit shoving 192.168.x.x IP's into our network is a real issue. Good luck to the person who tries to track down that mess for the first time on a large bridged network!!
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»www.wavecrazy.net Join WISPA today! »www.wispa.org/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17937081 Sat, 03 Mar 2007 16:06:54 EDT Re: Utilize wireless(wi-fi) type producst for customers? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17936579 gunther_01 : Additional routers are a PITA. I have people that reset theirs just cause they don't know how to set it up.

My thought is this. Telephone support is free, Truck rolls are billed by the hour.

I don't sell the router to them, yet. But I will. And I will gladly help them or bill them when It gets reset]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17936579 Sat, 03 Mar 2007 14:29:36 EDT Re: Utilize wireless(wi-fi) type producst for customers? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17935264 Chele : Not quite John. We used to get all the problems mentioned above, and somehow they became OUR problems. With our current policy, the customer "asks" for help, not demand it when he knows you are not the one that set it up. We do help the customer, we have to, it's just that their tone/attitude changes drastically depending on who did the work. Right now we are "heroes" when can help, whereas we were incompetent if we set it up and it didn't last a lifetime.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17935264 Sat, 03 Mar 2007 09:51:08 EDT Re: Utilize wireless(wi-fi) type producst for customers? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17932447 John Galt :
said by ponline See Profile :

Don't take it wrong we do costumer service with a big smile in our faces plus we don't charge even when its not our fault (95% of the cases). Just we don't like to complicate our lives that much so we support costumers wi-fi devices, we tried and it didn't work, so we are strict to what we offer, we offer fixed wireless and for that we are responsible and supportive.
Well...OK then.

;)
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A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17932447 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 19:34:31 EDT Re: Utilize wireless(wi-fi) type producst for customers? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17932405 ponline :
said by Diddy1 See Profile :

said by Chele See Profile :

bquote= LLigetfa See Profile ]
That said, having a consumer wireless router between the client and the CPE gives you a device you can ping provided they don't block ping. Since it is generally not mucked with as much as a PC and not prone to getting malware, it makes for a good test point. If you are familiar with the brand, you can walk the user through a factory reset and then use it in your testing. Much easier than troubleshooting a borked PC.
This I see as a very good point as well. How many times has some of you gone to fix what would seem to be a simple issue with their machine, only to have to tell them it's time for a re-load of the OS? At least if the device between CPE and users machine is working, one could confirm that the Internet connection is working.

I don't need any device other than the CPE i install to tell that the internet connection is working.

said by John Galt See Profile :

My suggestion is that if you guys are not going to do "customer service" then you get out of the business.
Don't take it wrong we do costumer service with a big smile in our faces plus we don't charge even when its not our fault (95% of the cases). Just we don't like to compicate our lives that much so we support costumers wi-fi devices, we tried and it didn't work, so we are strict to what we offer, we offer fixed wireless and for that we are responsible and supportive.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17932405 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 19:28:48 EDT Re: Utilize wireless(wi-fi) type producst for customers? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17930560 Diddy1 :
said by Chele See Profile :

This is truly a double edged sword! If you DO NOT set up their wireless network, clients will do the most stupid things out of ignorance. Some think that more is better and crank up the power creating problems for you and themselves.
This was my primary concern. I've found that these little devices do get out fairly well at times.

said by John Galt See Profile :

I would suggest PRINTED materials that instruct the sub how to do these things.
It is a bit of work to do so, but remember you only have to do it once and then it is "copy time".

Oh...don't forget to include a paragraph on there that spells out that if YOU have to do a truck roll to fix THEIR equipment, its gonna cost 'em.
I haven't had much luck with people reading the printed materials. I include an email client setup document that anybody has yet to read :mad: But, we go and setup the client with a smile anyways ;) But, by charging a fee for any work not at our fault, that is a small supllimental income to boot. Some days, I wish I had something to do!

said by LLigetfa See Profile :

That said, having a consumer wireless router between the client and the CPE gives you a device you can ping provided they don't block ping. Since it is generally not mucked with as much as a PC and not prone to getting malware, it makes for a good test point. If you are familiar with the brand, you can walk the user through a factory reset and then use it in your testing. Much easier than troubleshooting a borked PC.
This I see as a very good point as well. How many times has some of you gone to fix what would seem to be a simple issue with their machine, only to have to tell them it's time for a re-load of the OS? At least if the device between CPE and users machine is working, one could confirm that the Internet connection is working.

So, in general do alot of you see noise issues with wireless devices inside homes and buildings? I'm tending to think that I might be creating more headache for myself but as mentioned above, if a subsriber sets it up themselves, they will most likely crank up the power. At least I may have some control?
Aaron]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17930560 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 14:40:50 EDT Re: Utilize wireless(wi-fi) type producst for customers? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17929527 John Galt : My suggestion is that if you guys are not going to do "customer service" then you get out of the business.
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A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17929527 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 11:45:32 EDT Re: Utilize wireless(wi-fi) type producst for customers? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17929255 LLigetfa :
said by John Galt See Profile :

I would suggest PRINTED materials that instruct the sub how to do these things.
Assuming of course that they can and will read it.

A person that will not read holds a lower stature than one that cannot read. We have far too many of the former. We are destined to suffer fools.

I generally have to side with those that stay away from supporting customer owned equipment. The PoE injector should be the demarc. Anything supported onsite beyond that is T&M billable.

That said, having a consumer wireless router between the client and the CPE gives you a device you can ping provided they don't block ping. Since it is generally not mucked with as much as a PC and not prone to getting malware, it makes for a good test point. If you are familiar with the brand, you can walk the user through a factory reset and then use it in your testing. Much easier than troubleshooting a borked PC.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17929255 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 10:58:49 EDT Re: Utilize wireless(wi-fi) type producst for customers? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17929243 ponline :
said by John Galt See Profile :

I would suggest PRINTED materials that instruct the sub how to do these things.

And, they firs support call will start smth like 'im sorry but i lost the printed material that you gave me , and my internet connection is not working....' :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17929243 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 10:55:10 EDT Re: Utilize wireless(wi-fi) type producst for customers? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17929161 Chele :
said by John Galt See Profile :

I would suggest PRINTED materials
Yes, and staple it their foreheads :D

Life is so much simpler now that we don't do local wireless networks!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17929161 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 10:41:09 EDT Re: Utilize wireless(wi-fi) type producst for customers? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17929063 John Galt : I would suggest PRINTED materials that instruct the sub how to do these things.

It is a bit of work to do so, but remember you only have to do it once and then it is "copy time".

Oh...don't forget to include a paragraph on there that spells out that if YOU have to do a truck roll to fix THEIR equipment, its gonna cost 'em.

;)
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A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17929063 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 10:17:02 EDT Re: Utilize wireless(wi-fi) type producst for customers? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17929027 Chele : This is truly a double edged sword! If you DO NOT set up their wireless network, clients will do the most stupid things out of ignorance. Some think that more is better and crank up the power creating problems for you and themselves. The other side of the coin is, you set up their network. You have far more understanding than the average customer and realize that you need to use "just enough and maybe a tad more" that's it. With the latter scenario, ANY AND EVERY problem they have is yours. After all, YOU are the whiz that set it up :huh: We do not use channel 6 in our POPs because that's the one set by default by most manufacturers, needless to say it's very contaminated in our area.

We have gone with the first scenario. We tell customers what brand of routers we have had good luck with and to secure the wireless, and we walk away! Our service calls have dropped drastically. We do help customers with any questions they might have, but they do realize we didn't set it up and as such, it's their problem not ours. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17929027 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 10:09:47 EDT Re: Utilize wireless(wi-fi) type producst for customers? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17929004 ponline : I had few clients that wanted wireless in their home so they can have mobility with their laptops, or they didn't wanted wholes in their house.
I sold them an extra AP, and connected it to the CPE.
From the first day i only had only problems with those clients. Different issues, lap top wireless disabled, wrong ssid choose etc etc etc.
Its difficult to deal with those incapable costumers. I had them bring to me his lap top twice to enable his wireless nic.
I had a thousands of calls from those costumers, and when i couldn't take it anymore, I told them the AP i sold you is BAD, bring it to me and i will refund it.
I recommended them to buy wireless routers somewhere else, and since then they complain to the store where they bought the wireless routers.
Since then i never do this service for my users, I they wish wireless mobility in their house install them the CPE test it with my laptop and recommend them to go by wireless routers somewhere else.
I like to keep it simple.

I have enough stupid clients that disable the LAN card on the regular basis, and they call because the internet is not working, I have to deal with them and walk them through the phone to enable their LAN, if they are really stupid it might cost me a truck roll just to go and enable them the LAN (they don't pay for this because they did nothing wrong as long as they are concerned). Imagine adding to this situation extra material where they can screw it up. No thanks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17929004 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 10:05:52 EDT Utilize wireless(wi-fi) type producst for customers? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17928145 Diddy1 : I've encountered several obstacles where clients wish to use their wireless equipped laptops, or other desktop machines, with their new Internet connections throughout the homes. I've mostly wired these types of setups but some are just not realistic or the owner doesn't want any additional holes etc. My initial network is built on 802.11b/g. I already see alot of these types of soho routers/APs in homes from my own APs. Is it a bad idea to install a soho type router/AP at a clients home to share the connection? I obviously choose a different channel than the CPE installed but the devices do propagate fairly well?
Any thoughts?
Oh and in addtion, I stopped by RadioShack the other day for some other supplies and noticed a 15dbi "corner" antenna system. :( This operated in the 802.11b/g arena and equated to a small sector like antenna. This could be a huge issue to come???
Aaron]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17928145 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 03:46:08 EDT