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MadMANN
Premium
join:2005-08-19
·Comcast

Re: What about that marketing scheme???

said by pnh102 See Profile :

According to the article, Verizon had their vans equipped with after-market hybrid technology. This process adds significantly more cost to the vehicles (assuming they were purchased new). It is unlikely they will recoup any savings from gasoline purchases using this approach.
As a field tech, I put about $100-125 in my tank every week. In a year, that's $5200. In five years (the average life of a field vehicle, sometimes more), that would be $26,000. So you are telling me that a hybrid truck would cost close to $26,000 more than a normal truck?

The savings are obvious.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Re: What about that marketing scheme???

said by MadMANN See Profile :

As a field tech, I put about $100-125 in my tank every week. In a year, that's $5200. In five years (the average life of a field vehicle, sometimes more), that would be $26,000. So you are telling me that a hybrid truck would cost close to $26,000 more than a normal truck?

The savings are obvious.
What is not being told here is how much Verizon spent on each vehicle to have it converted. Given how much more hybrid cars cost than non-hybrid cars, it is not reasonable to assume that the cost of converting each vehicle for hybrid use could be that high. For example, compare the cost of a 2007 Honda Civic Hybrid Sedan to a non-hybrid Honda Civic Sedan. The hybrid costs about $7500 more than the non-hybrid (assuming the lowest MSRPs are used).

Another factor is that hybrid cars realize much of their gas savings from the fact that they are small. Compare the 4 cylinder Saturn VUE SUV to its non-hybrid counterpart. The former gets 27-32 MPG and the latter gets 22-27 MPG. That isn't exactly a stellar difference.

I am also assuming that a field truck gets more abuse than a standard car, so there might also be a battery replacement needed (especially since older batteries lose their ability to retain charge). There's another ding in the potential savings.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.

pkarlos_76

join:2004-08-24
Edmonton, AB

Re: What about that marketing scheme???

said by pnh102 See Profile :

said by MadMANN See Profile :

As a field tech, I put about $100-125 in my tank every week. In a year, that's $5200. In five years (the average life of a field vehicle, sometimes more), that would be $26,000. So you are telling me that a hybrid truck would cost close to $26,000 more than a normal truck?

The savings are obvious.
What is not being told here is how much Verizon spent on each vehicle to have it converted. Given how much more hybrid cars cost than non-hybrid cars, it is not reasonable to assume that the cost of converting each vehicle for hybrid use could be that high. For example, compare the cost of a 2007 Honda Civic Hybrid Sedan to a non-hybrid Honda Civic Sedan. The hybrid costs about $7500 more than the non-hybrid (assuming the lowest MSRPs are used).

Another factor is that hybrid cars realize much of their gas savings from the fact that they are small. Compare the 4 cylinder Saturn VUE SUV to its non-hybrid counterpart. The former gets 27-32 MPG and the latter gets 22-27 MPG. That isn't exactly a stellar difference.

I am also assuming that a field truck gets more abuse than a standard car, so there might also be a battery replacement needed (especially since older batteries lose their ability to retain charge). There's another ding in the potential savings.
Quoted from »www.hybridcars.com/faq.html

"How often do hybrid batteries need replacing? Is replacement expensive and disposal an environmental problem?"

Answer:
"The hybrid battery packs are designed to last for the lifetime of the vehicle, somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 miles, probably a whole lot longer. The warranty covers the batteries for between eight and ten years, depending on the car maker.

Battery toxicity is a concern, althoug today's hybrids use NiMH batteries, not the environmentally problematic rechargeable nickel cadmium. "Nickel metal hydride batteries are benign. They can be fully recycled," says Ron Cogan, editor of the Green Car Journal. Toyota and Honda say that they will recycle dead batteries and that disposal will pose no toxic hazards. Toyota puts a phone number on each battery, and they pay a $200 "bounty" for each battery to help ensure that it will be properly recycled.

There's no definitive word on replacement costs because they are almost never replaced. According to Toyota, since the Prius first went on sale in 2000, they have not replaced a single battery for wear and tear."

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Re: What about that marketing scheme???

said by pkarlos_76 See Profile :

Quoted from »www.hybridcars.com/faq.html

"How often do hybrid batteries need replacing? Is replacement expensive and disposal an environmental problem?"

Answer:
"The hybrid battery packs are designed to last for the lifetime of the vehicle, somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 miles, probably a whole lot longer. The warranty covers the batteries for between eight and ten years, depending on the car maker.
That answer is 100% true, of course, because by the time you have racked up that kind of mileage on a vehicle, it is not financially smart to buy a new battery, but instead to put that money towards a new car. Since for most people that means the get rid of the current car, then it is 100% true that the battery has lasted "the life of the vehicle."
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.

pkarlos_76

join:2004-08-24
Edmonton, AB

Re: What about that marketing scheme???

Haha, wouldn't last long in my business, my 3/4 ton 4x4 work truck that I own and run my business from racks up 120,000 km a year. Of course we replace them every 3 to 5 years.

jaa
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
·Optimum Online
·Vonage

said by MadMANN See Profile :

said by pnh102 See Profile :

According to the article, Verizon had their vans equipped with after-market hybrid technology. This process adds significantly more cost to the vehicles (assuming they were purchased new). It is unlikely they will recoup any savings from gasoline purchases using this approach.
As a field tech, I put about $100-125 in my tank every week. In a year, that's $5200. In five years (the average life of a field vehicle, sometimes more), that would be $26,000. So you are telling me that a hybrid truck would cost close to $26,000 more than a normal truck?

The savings are obvious.
No, I am telling you that the 10 to 20% fuel savings ($5,000 over 5 years in your example) does not cover the cost of the conversion.
--
NOTHING justifies terrorism. We don't negotiate with terrorists. Those that support terrorists are terrorists.
Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

Re: What about that marketing scheme???

said by jaa See Profile :

No, I am telling you that the 10 to 20% fuel savings ($5,000 over 5 years in your example) does not cover the cost of the conversion.
My previous 2000 Camry was getting 20 MPG. My 2007 Camry Hybrid is getting an actual ~32 MPG. That was certainly more of a savings than 10%.
cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA

Re: What about that marketing scheme???

You can't compare a car built in 2000 with one built in 2007. A 2007 Camry gets 24/34 vs 40/38 for the hybrid. Making it 11% savings on the highway and 40% in the city. Assuming you had an even mix of driving you get a 26% average savings.
--
CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber
Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

Re: What about that marketing scheme???

said by cmaenginsb See Profile :

You can't compare a car built in 2000 with one built in 2007. A 2007 Camry gets 24/34 vs 40/38 for the hybrid. Making it 11% savings on the highway and 40% in the city. Assuming you had an even mix of driving you get a 26% average savings.
I can't? My 2000 Camry was rated 23/32, yet I still only saw ~20 MPG actual performance for this terrain. A 2007 Camry is only better on the specs by 1-2 MPG.

All I know is that my obtained MPG in the 2007 hybrid was effectively 160% that of my 2000 car which still retains specs similar to that in the base Camry model today.

sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online

said by cmaenginsb See Profile :

You can't compare a car built in 2000 with one built in 2007. A 2007 Camry gets 24/34 vs 40/38 for the hybrid. Making it 11% savings on the highway and 40% in the city. Assuming you had an even mix of driving you get a 26% average savings.
I don't know in what areas they are deploying the hybrids, but in metro areas like NYC, almost ALL of the driving these guys do is "city" driving which is where the hybrids (of any size) really shine. Verizon is a greedy company, they would not do this just to enhance their public image.

We also don't know if these hybrid systems they are using have a plug or not. If they do, then they are going to "fill up" overnight and save even more (an all electric car is far, far cheaper to "gas up" than a gasoline car).

mtech

join:2002-10-20
Jonesboro, AR

Your math is off. You are looking at total fuel cost, not difference in fuel costs between the two types of vehicle. 18-21 mpg for hybrid vs.16-22 mpg for standard engine (per specs for Chevrolet Silverado 1500 Work Truck). That works out to an 11% savings for in-town driving and a loss for highway driving. Assuming only in-town driving, that works out to $11 to $14 savings per week. In a year, that would be a savings of only $572 to $728 and a savings of $2625 to $3640 over a five year lifespan. There is approximately $6000 difference in retail prices between a hybrid and a standard engine Silverado.

Not so obvious savings.

I totally support research into alternatives, but the solution is not there yet.
cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA

As others stated, only an electric truck will eliminate the $26,000 cost you mention, the actual savings will be a wash compared to the cost of the conversion.

In the end the added cost of conversion is a wash. This is the case with most hybrids, with the biggest benefit not being a cost savings but a more "green" vehicle.
--
CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber

CConverse

join:2006-01-31
Syracuse, NY

You know what? If they're saving $$$, GREAT!!! Maybe it will send the message to other businesses that they can take steps to become environmentally responsible without cutting into profits, if not potentially increasing them after the initial investment.

Kudos to Verizon. They just gained a lot of points in my book today. (and they had a pretty good debt racked up, too...)

MadMANN
Premium
join:2005-08-19
·Comcast

Re: What about that marketing scheme???

said by CConverse See Profile :

You know what? If they're saving $$$, GREAT!!! Maybe it will send the message to other businesses that they can take steps to become environmentally responsible without cutting into profits, if not potentially increasing them after the initial investment.

I agree.
Forums » FiOS Techs Get Hybrid Vans


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