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 tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3
 ·Comcast
1 edit | everything starts somewhere said by jervin123:I don't understand why many hybrid car makers decided to use Nickel based batteries then Lithium-ion/polymer just my opinion. Then we could store energy after shutting down vehicle where as most hybrids discharge their battery immediatly after shutting down. Already in the works, Toyota says the will switch to Lithium-ion (probably polymer, still testing durability) by the 2008-9 model year.
neither LI nor NiHM discharge more than 10% per week, unlike Ultra-capacitors (very fast charge-self discharge overnight)which also have potential as PART of a hybrid system. due to weight concerns, small hybrids (passenger cars) will likely stick with electrical storage, for now.
However larger service vehicles (larger vans, medium duty vehicles and up) will probably go to hydraulic which has at least 3 times the energy storage per pound, of the best batteries available, at a 1/3 the price or less (based on mass production) and up to 60% increase in fuel mileage. in stop-n-go useage like service vehicles (garbage trucks, UPS/ Fed-ex delivery vans, and probably most of comcasts mileage) add the advantage for any vehicle that uses hydraulics (garbage trucks, boom trucks (cable and phone service) is that the "battery" is storing energy in a form already needed.
Imagine a tech in the bucket truck is working on a pole-mounted device, while he is stationary or only moving around a little, the engine on the truck (smaller high efficiency diesel driving a large hydraulic pump) shuts down for 10-20 minutes at a time, only starting when the hydraulic battery (hydraulic cylinder with a reservoir of nitrogen)needs charging (it then comes on, going immedietlly to it's most efficient speed and runs only until the hydraulic battery is pumped up to 5-7500 PSI(max)and then shuts off again. generator (both for truck power and emergency recharging of nodes/tool usage, etc) and a heat pump (keeps tech,truck and equipment warm/cool) are also hydraulicly driven, the tech can fill out reports, wait for calls/assistance etc. without constantly idling the engine.
UPS is current testing 2 different prototypes based on this technology
»www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/200···45/Issue
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 KA3SGM- -... ...- -Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
 ·Verizon FiOS
 ·Cricket Broadband
1 edit | Tshirt, Lithium-Ion battery technology, although currently available in most cell phones, is still in it's infancy, (I have already been through 2 Dell recalls on my laptop's batteries).
Who wants to return to their car, only to find that it erupted into a fireball 45 minutes ago, and took 6 other cars with it?????
Ni-Cd was OK, but yes, memory effect was ugly, and Cadmium is a toxic metal. Ni-MH is better, but still does not come close to Li-Ion in capacity per cm/2, and can still suffer memory effect. Li-Ion, is common to internal shorting, and any contact with oxygen likely results in a fire.
The copper and zinc electrodes jabbed into an Orange seemed to work OK when I was in Junior High School, why not offer a trunk load of oranges as a fix for the problem??
I will wait for Nickel-Hydrogen batteries to become available, or cold fusion, before I consider jumping in. | |
tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3 Reviews:
·Comcast
1 edit | said by KA3SGM: Tshirt, Lithium-Ion battery technology, although currently available in most cell phones, is still in it's infancy, (I have already been through 2 Dell recalls on my laptop's batteries). Who wants to return to their car, only to find that it erupted into a fireball 45 minutes ago, and took 6 other cars with it????? That is certainly a danger is the energy density is increased. as sony and others are learning manufacturing QC, or even the risks are not yet fully understood.
Of course laptop and cellphones have the additional requirement needing of extremely compact batteries
Automotive designers more than double the size per watt to allow safety barriers, fuses, temperature sensitive, voltage and short circuit saftey cutoffs, and cooling passages.
Orange likely don't have the energy density to transport them selves very far.
I don't believe we can wait for portable fusion before finding way to use fossil fuel more effciently the "hybrid" technologies being developed will work with ANY storage battery type, and any power source that comes along.
Auto makers are all spending huge amounts to create new, better batteries.
Verizon's test is a great demonstration of their potential demand for a useable more efficient service vehicle.
A smart auto manufacturer would be a partner in the test to gain knowlwdge and experince towards meeting that demand | |
 TA63ST215WPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2 | Here is an interview with Toyota'a top man about the upcoming Prius:
»Toyota to use Li-ion battery in next-gen Prius
--
Overheard: "I could careless matter of Fact"
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KA3SGM- -... ...- -Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Cricket Broadband
| reply to tshirt
said by tshirt:"Automotive designers more than double the size per watt to allow safety barriers, fuses, temperature sensitive, voltage and short circuit safety cutoffs, and cooling passages". Tshirt, Automotive engineers have only recently figured out safer fossil fuel transportation, as learned from the Ford Pinto 30 years ago, and GM trucks of 20 years ago, and are just now moving the fuel tank forward of the rear axle, and within the perimeter of the frame.
All the safety cutouts, cooling passages, and fuses won't help if the battery is damaged during a collision, or in any other physical manner.
I would hate to look back on an accident, to say that it was not severe, and everyone would have walked away with a few scrapes or bruises, but the slurry of Lithium under the back seat hit 3000 degrees in 5 seconds, and the occupants were unfortunately incinerated.
If these automotive engineers continue to follow the same 20-30 year learning curve, I can't imagine how many people will be injured or killed, before they eventually perfect the Li-Ion hybrid vehicle technology.
Even rocket scientists took a decade to figure out that a 100% Oxygen environment, in a space capsule filled with hundreds of switches that produce small sparks when actuated, would eventually cause a fire, killing the astronauts on board.
Lithium is a HIGHLY reactive alkaline metal. It does not like contact with air or water, 2 things you are likely to encounter in an automotive environment.
If you clip a small lithium watch battery with a set of wire cutters(Just an example, I don't advise anyone to actually do this), you get a good flash, and some smoke. Then drop it in a bucket of water, more flash, smoke, and sizzle.
Do you really want 20+ pounds of this stuff in the car with you?
Maybe 15 years down the road the engineers will have developed front, side, rear, and top mounted air bags for the battery pack itself. Then 5-7 years later they will introduce lower powered air bags for the battery, after they determine that the originally designed ones were causing more damage than the collision itself. | |
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