bcur
join:2005-09-04
Boulder, CO
|  Switching to Qwest DSL - firewall & modem questions
I've pretty much decided to make the switch from Sprint Broad Band (SBB) to Quest DSL but have a few questions.
First, a short description of my set-up. I currently use a Sonicwall SOHO/10 appliance that serves as a firewall, provides NAT translation & port routing, and acts as a DHCP server to the various computers on the local network. It it is connected to the SBB equipment via a cat 5 cable and uses DHCP to grab an IP address from the SBB box (SBB provides a fixed IP address). The Sonicwall is connected to a 10/100 switch that is, in turn, connected to various computers as well as a 802.11a/b/g wireless base station.
1) Will the Sonicwall (which expects to get its IP address via DHCP) work with the MSN/Quest DSL service or do I need to go with the Qwest.net (which I understand provides a fixed IP address)?
2) What are the disadvantages of not having a fixed IP address?
3) Given that I already have the Sonicwall and the wireless base station, what are some good choices for a 'vanilla' DSL modem without router/firewall/wireless functions?
Thanks, Brian |
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AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
 ·Comcast
edit:
March 7th, @02:02PM
| 1) A) It is an option to get a static IP address with Qwest.net, it isn't something that automatically comes with it. (You have to special order it and it costs extra.)
1) B) You do not need a static IP address for the Sonicwall to work.
2) The advantage of a static IP address is that it makes it easier to host servers since your address would not change. If you don't plan on hosting a server then there isn't any advantage.
There can be an exception where your ISP can require a static IP address in order to provide special services or setups, however with Qwest.net I don't think you would have any of those.
3) All DSL modems have built in routers, if you can bridge your modem you can effectively disable the router part. I use a Cisco 678 here at the office (bridged), but I can't recommend it since they don't make them anymore.
By the way, welcome to BBR!  |
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christcorp
Premium
join:2001-05-21
Cheyenne, WY
 ·VOIPo
edit:
March 7th, @02:09PM
| reply to bcur
1: The actiontec/2wire modem/router provided by Qwest will output by default a private DHCP IP address of 192.168.0.X. If your Sonic is capable of authenticating PPPOE, then in many cases it is possible to put the actiontec/2wire qwest moden/router into transparent bridge mode. Thus sending the public IP address to the Sonicwall. Again, only useful if the Sonicwall can authenticate PPPOE.
2: Yes, you could instead get a static IP address from Qwest.net. BUT, again, you would have to order a minimum of 8 (5 usable). Reason being, if you only got 1 static, the actiontec/2wire modem/router would use that, and still push you out a private 192.168.0.x series IP address. However, if your sonicwall can do the authentication via PPPOE I mentioned earlier, then a single IP address would be fine. Single costs $5.95 a month, 8 (5 usable) costs $15.95 a month. Only advantage to the static is if you are running servers that need a static and can't use a DNS resolver service like DynaDNS or similar.
3: There isn't any Qwest approved DSL modems that are ONLY modems. They all have routers integrated. However, if you can authenticate PPPOE like I mentioned before, and you put the modem into transparent bridge mode, like I mentioned before, then it does bypass all router, nat, dhcp, firewall issues. Another work around for this, if PPPOE authentication isn't an option, is to let the actiontec/2wire modem/router authenticate. Turn off DHCP. Turn off Firewall. Must leave NAT on, turn on DMZ, point DMZ to a static IP address of 192.168.0.2 that you placed into the sonicwall. Yes, there is a double NAT this way, but dmz will forward all ports automatically to the sonicwall, and you can do port forward from there. This is how I run servers, voip, etc... and it works fine.
Later... Mike...
P.S. Sorry to have duplicated some of what Athlgrond wrote. We overlapped our posts. |
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DSLmodem
@qwest.net
| reply to AthlGrond
quote:
All DSL modems have built in routers.
Not exactly true. As far as I have seen all devices which "do" PPPoA are modem/routers. But that does not imply that all DSL modems have built-in routers.
I have a number of DSL modems without built-in routers which are working fine. I prefer it that way since there is then a clear demarc between the ISP gear (DSL modem) and my gear (router and everything on my side of the router). |
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PPPoAonly
@qwest.net
| reply to christcorp
quote:
There isn't any Qwest approved DSL modems that are ONLY modems. They all have routers integrated.
This is because Qwest only supports PPPoA and the way PPPoA works it must be this way. Many times you are able to use PPPoE on a DSL line provided by Qwest but it is not guaranteed to work in the future even if it does today. |
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christcorp
Premium
join:2001-05-21
Cheyenne, WY
·VOIPo
| That's true, but that's where transparent bridging comes into play. When you put the modem in transparent bridge mode, it becomes a dumb modem and bypasses ALL router functions entirely. Your external router must then authenticate via PPPOE. Again, the "Qwest Approved" modems all have built in routers. You are correct that you can get a free standing modem not on the approved list, and it will probably work. The OP however can work quite nicely with a traditional actiontec type modem. Either transparent bridge, or double NAT with DMZ to the external router. Later... Mike.... |
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Caedmon
@qwest.net
| quote:
When you put the modem in transparent bridge mode, it becomes a dumb modem
I don't understand - a modem doesn't have a transparent bridge mode - it is always a dumb modem. Could you explain how a dumb modem can be placed in transparent bridge mode. And how, since it is a dumb modem to begin with it "becomes a dumb modem"? I think I know what you are really trying to say but it isn't clear from your posting.
BTW - As the previous poster state, PPPoE is not supported by Qwest and may not always work. And as far as I can determine you can't do PPPoA with a dumb modem.
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christcorp
Premium
join:2001-05-21
Cheyenne, WY
·VOIPo
| If you had read the earlier posts, you would have seen where all Qwest approved modems ALSO have built in routers. By putting the "Device", because our terminology is conflicting here, into transparent bridge mode, you bypass ALL router functions and thus have just a plain old dumb modem. The modem will not authenticate your user name or password. It will do nothing more than transcribe the dsl signal. You then must have a separate router that will be able to authenticate via PPPOE. That is where you will put in your user name and password.
As far as PPPOE not always being available, that is true. While we are on the topic of using proper terminology, let's just say that PPPOE isn't always available as an option. As far as qwest is concerned, PPPOE is NEVER SUPPORTED. It may work, but they DON'T support it. In other words, if you are having a problem with you connection, and call qwest, they will ask you about the modem and it's PPPOA authentication. When you mention that it's in transparent bridge mode and that you are authenticating via pppoe on an external router, you might as well just hand up with them. They will tell you that they won't support that configuration. Doesn't mean you can't use it, just that they aren't going to help you.
Hopefully now the terminology is in the same playing field and everyone understands. Later... Mike.... |
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caffeinator
Coming soon to a cup near you..
Premium
join:2005-01-16
Spokane, WA
 ·WebBand
| reply to Caedmon
Here's a description from the related .PDF for the GT701.
quote:
When using transparent bridging mode with the Qwest® Standard Modem: Actiontec® GT701:
• Your selected Internet Service Provider (ISP) must support transparent bridging.
• The routing features of your Qwest Standard Modem: Actiontec GT701 are inactive while in
bridging mode.
Here's the same for the gt701-wg
»www.qwest.com/internethelp/modem···guration
See the "Transparent Bridging" link on that page. (it's a .PDF)
-CaFF
--
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - A. Einstein |
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DavidPauls
@qwest.net
| reply to christcorp
christcorp
Hate to have to agree with the previous poster but she/he is correct. A DSL modem does not have a router built in it. The correct terminology is "DSL modem/router combination" or "Router with DSL modem interface" or something similar. As far as I can find on Qwest's page they have not approved any DSL modems. They have approved some DSL Modem/Router combination devices. When discussing technology is pays to be accurate and not adopt the sloppiness shown by more and more marketing departments. You avoid confusion.
I did notice in the the quote from the GT701 document that the Marketing department at Qwest has taken over that document to its detriment. Hopefully that quote is not from the technical documentation for the GT701.
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AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
·Comcast
edit:
March 13th, @10:18AM
| said by DavidPauls :
christcorp
Hate to have to agree with the previous poster but she/he is correct. A DSL modem does not have a router built in it. Hey! I was the one who started the whole "all DSL modem's include routers" discussion, not Mike.
I stand corrected, by both you and the previous poster, thank you both for the correction(s).
So: Not all modems have to have routers, just all of the ones Qwest currently support do.
--
"Talk about the goats guarding the garbage!" -Dick Morris |
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christcorp
Premium
join:2001-05-21
Cheyenne, WY
·VOIPo
| reply to DavidPauls
Whatever....
If the average person reading the posts in this forum can't derive from the syntax that the little plastic boxes that Qwest "Approves" has a modem and a router built into that little plastic box, then maybe they have no business dealing with DSL technology. If people can't deal contextually with the terminology here, then they are definitely in trouble.
Simply put; You can get a Qwest Approved "Plastic Box" that has a modem and router inside of it; or you can get an unapproved "Plastic Box" that only has a modem in it. In which case you will need a separate "Plastic Box" that has a router in it to authenticate your user name and password via PPPOE and to connect your computer to. Or you can authenticate directly with your computer. In which case you don't need the 2nd "Plastic Box".
Hopefully this isn't to technical for some, and not too condescending to others. Have to make sure we stay politically correct here and not offend anyone. Later... Mike... |
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caffeinator
Coming soon to a cup near you..
Premium
join:2005-01-16
Spokane, WA
·WebBand
edit:
March 14th, @03:51AM
| reply to bcur
FYI, i'm currenty running a 'dumb' modem, that never had a router and IS supported, if barely. The Intel 3200.
Here's my stats:
It's never failed me, and stays on for as long as I don't reboot. Yes, I have a Cisco 678 in bridging mode, a USR9002 (also non-router), and a ancient WireSpeed (also non router)
Qwest is just lazy..lot of modems work, even the speedtouch modems that have *nix support.
*bleh*
My plan is to eventually use the USR in RFC1483 mode, in front of a *nix firewall box that auth's to it with the Eagle chipset linux driver..that USR provided.., and uses PPPoA...then my wifi router.
ez.
-CaFF
--
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - A. Einstein |
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