Topic 'Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to' in forum 'Security' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17960994 en Fri, 10 Feb 2012 17:18:25 EDT Fri, 10 Feb 2012 17:18:25 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17979111 said by Kill DRM :

said by dave:

The truth is surely that Microsoft has an interest in deriving a unique id for your system.
If you are insinuating that Microsoft's assigning you unique system ID (in addition to the unique product ID) is something bad, please elaborate.
Touchy? If I'd meant that, I would have written it.
--
Microsoft Security MVP, 2005-2007.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17979111 Sat, 10 Mar 2007 17:10:27 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17977013 said by dave:

Lets say your maxtor hd has a recall notice and they share this information with ms and this recall notice effects a given set of serial numbers between x and y. Now ms could update wga so that when you use it wga pops up a alert box.
Yes, they could. But Microsoft has never given any indication whatsoever that it wants to be in the business of disseminating 'recall' information for the world's hardware vendors. Thus, this is pure fantasy.

The truth is surely that Microsoft has an interest in deriving a unique id for your system. Let's not pretend that it's for the good of your disk drive.
Actually i miss read what was said any how. Its not hard drive serial number but volume serial number. Big diffrence hard drive serial number is built in to the drives controller board and does not change. Volume serial number is created at time of format and changes with each format. So it is a moot point any ways. Simply put its a hash and its a bit of info that changes easly so it still cant be use to tie a individual computer to a persons name.

Heres my serial number off my mouse lzk529095386 now who am i? The only name you know me by novaflare only personal information you have on me is in my profile and posting tags.

In the end its the same with wga and ms. They know its the same computer that matches what ever information was sent during registration of the os on install but thats it. It is really simple to keep your name addy and other truely identifing info out of the hand of microsoft you simply do not put it in when registering. Or you use fake for all or part. BTW i changed a few numbers on my mouses serial number for the frum post as im waiting on a rma replacement and they never asked for the mouse bback just said it would be week to 10 days for replacement.
--
Evil does exist and it has a face to often that face is one that should look on their child with love in their eyes.

Instead only hate exists in those eyes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17977013 Sat, 10 Mar 2007 09:16:44 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17974356 said by chrome dome :

I've heard that Vista was designed (at least in part) by a joint venture between MS and big brother in order to make spying on its users easier. I heard about it on a radio show, so I don't have a link to post. They claim there is a backdoor deliberately put in to Vista so big brother can spy on anyone whenever they want to. Any one hear more about it possibly being true or not?
Yes this is true. The United Building Code now requires two doors for saftey reason unless you own a Mobile. Then replacing windows is optional. In all versions users should still put the lid down after they flush, independent of any joint venture.

I would quote you the regulation but I ran out of paper.
--
Gladiator Security Forum »www.gladiator-antivirus.com/
Missing Kids
»www.missingkids.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17974356 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 18:17:38 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17974228 said by Kill DRM :

said by AB:

BTW, has it ever occurred to anyone that the letters of "Service Pack 2" can be easily rearranged to spell "Vice Pact Workes"? As well as "Swear to Veicck"?
"Dark Lord", "Beelzebub", "Satan", "Veicck"-- He goes by many names . . . .
You need to actually spell the word "TWO" to include "Dubya" in your list.Changed it.
Who in the hell registered my "DRM Fault" anon name ??!!
LMAO!! :D
Apparently, it was available. Someone must have liked it! :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17974228 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 17:54:21 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17974055 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17974055 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 17:27:00 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17973885 said by dave:

The truth is surely that Microsoft has an interest in deriving a unique id for your system. If you are insinuating that Microsoft's assigning you unique system ID (in addition to the unique product ID) is something bad, please elaborate.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17973885 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:57:48 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17973863 said by AB:

BTW, has it ever occurred to anyone that the letters of "Service Pack 2" can be easily rearranged to spell "Vice Pact Workes"? As well as "Swear to Veicck"?
"Dark Lord", "Beelzebub", "Satan", "Veicck"-- He goes by many names . . . .
You need to actually spell the word "TWO" to include "Dubya" in your list. Who in the hell registered my "DRM Fault" anon name ??!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17973863 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:54:49 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17973813 Lets say your maxtor hd has a recall notice and they share this information with ms and this recall notice effects a given set of serial numbers between x and y. Now ms could update wga so that when you use it wga pops up a alert box.Yes, they could. But Microsoft has never given any indication whatsoever that it wants to be in the business of disseminating 'recall' information for the world's hardware vendors. Thus, this is pure fantasy.

The truth is surely that Microsoft has an interest in deriving a unique id for your system. Let's not pretend that it's for the good of your disk drive.
--
Microsoft Security MVP, 2005-2007.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17973813 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:49:56 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17973650 said by Razzy:

Yeah ok whatever,

Problem is there isn't any.

Why do people like to post nonsense?
You shouldn't post nonsense either. QUOTE the person you are replying to please. Your comment makes no sense until I scroll way, way back up (not one or two posts but way up) and finally find SUMware' comment. Even after I did that, your reply doesn't make much sense.
--
"If you want to do DRM on a PC then you need to treat the user as the enemy." Ross Anderson in "`Trusted Computing' Frequently Asked Questions"

»www.msfirefox.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17973650 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:27:54 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17973373 said by swhx7:

Running tasks: see image (if anyone can tell me how to get text above an image, please pm)
Run: tasklist
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17973373 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 15:43:22 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17972186 said by swhx7:

Tried the above-described experiment.

System: P4 tower, Windows XP Pro SP1, no unusual hardware or software . . . .Ah! But the experiment has been invalidated through the use of the "Waldo's Flypaper" theorem (the opposite of "Occam's Razor"), which states that you don't have SP2 installed, which, as recently as 2004, many people were calling the Devil Himself:

»Re: Vista Bitches and complaints.

BTW, has it ever occurred to anyone that the letters of "Service Pack Two" can be easily rearranged to spell "Vice Pact Workes"? As well as "Swear to Veicck"?
"Dark Lord", "Beelzebub", "Satan", "Veicck"-- He goes by many names . . . .

*Edit- Clarification]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17972186 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 12:18:51 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17971886 Windows Genuine Advantage Problems and Solutions

»www.pchell.com/support/windowsge···ge.shtml

Since the above site will tell you how to fix it..if the process for you is broken..it also contains info on what any one can to to not even make it happen :D And it still surprise me that all the privacy hawks do not have in place those "tricks" to not even let "Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to" because without them set up..they are vulnerable at every site they visit for more then just an in your face WGA.

I do accept the WGA..but I do it on my own terms. ;)

Next time you put your bank or credit card in an atm and decide to cancel the process..ask yourself if they already read your card. :uhh:
--
Gladiator Security Forum »www.gladiator-antivirus.com/ Missing Kids »www.missingkids.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17971886 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 11:24:13 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17971652
Thus proving your not a lawyer and you can't read.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17971652 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 10:36:55 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17971538 said by Doctor Four:

According to one of the replies on the latest Microsoft
phones home topic on Slashdot, it would be nearly impossible
to use Windows Update without some information being sent
back to Microsoft.

And another reply states that only in the case of pirated
software is the information retained. It is otherwise
deleted.

This is beginning to sound more and more like a case of
FUD from Heise Online.
Na we could go back to early win 95 meathods. Downloading each individually grab them all and hope to god that one does not break functinality under a given set of conditions.

When windows update sends information to the server and gathers a list of updates any that are known to break somethign on your computer some application for example then it is left out. With out this information you get them all and to hell with it if it busts your favorite cant live with out application.

As drm fault said "Any customer service my supplier of a $140 piece of software wants to provide to me would be most welcome. So, they collect the serial number of the hard drive and your license key ? Oh my god, damn !"

On the surface it would seem that there no need for the hd serial number aka volume serial number. But think about this little what if.

Lets say your maxtor hd has a recall notice and they share this information with ms and this recall notice effects a given set of serial numbers between x and y. Now ms could update wga so that when you use it wga pops up a alert box.

"Alert maxtor has isued a recall notice for your hard drive do to spontaneous failures resulting in loss of data. Click this link to find out more."

Sure they could limit wga to only model number but failures in hardware can happen only in a small number of a given model ibm deskstore any one? or how about the dell laptop batteries that were exploading that only effect about 10k of the batteries out at the time out of a total 100k. In dells cases they followed a better safe than sorry approach and isued a recall for all laptops useing the battery model.

Point is wga doesnt do this yet but it could be made to do so or hell may already have those abilities and just never been used yet do to no recalls on hard drives.
Of all the parts that can blow up on a computer hds are number 1 on the list secound only to maybe powersupplies.

Can and does ms use the serial number to make sure your not installing xp on a dozen comps sure they can and probabbly do. I bet theres a specific tolerance that is built in to wga to prevent false possitives when it comes to faziling a install. Maybe 3 maybe 10 who knows. Sure would be a handy way to spot pirated installs from computer retailers cloneing images including keys to dozens of hds.

When it comes to pirated software we all know full well that pirates have in the past coded in trojans keyloggers proxies full blown ftp servers irc bots for botnets etc all right in to their cracks they pre apply to the pirated software. Totaly undetectable in most cases unless you tend to watch data packets.

Its hard to tell how many pirated copies of xp and other ms oses are acting like a terorist sleeper cell just waiting to be woke up to launch a attack agaisnt a web site or server. We have seen this with many a email worm and other worm types so why now build that in to a pirated os?
--
Evil does exist and it has a face to often that face is one that should look on their child with love in their eyes.

Instead only hate exists in those eyes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17971538 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 10:17:30 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17971090 said by Doctor Four:

According to someone who posted this at Slashdot,
quote:
"When you start WGA setup and get to the license agreement
page but decided NOT to install the highly controversial
WGA component and cancel the installation, the setup
program will send information stored in your registry and
the fact that you choose not to install WGA back to
Microsoft's servers."


»yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/03/07/162203.shtml

I knew there was a good reason for my refusing the
download of this. It appears to send some kind of
unique ID to Microsoft.
Of corse it sends a unique id thats pretty obviously how it works. The id is your cd key or a hash of hardware and cd key similar to activation. Not like they can tell that the id belongs to doctor four and not novaflare.
--
Evil does exist and it has a face to often that face is one that should look on their child with love in their eyes.

Instead only hate exists in those eyes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17971090 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 08:23:46 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17971068 blogs.msdn.com/wga/archive/2007/···try.aspx
quote:
here an example of the actual XML that is returned when a user cancels an installation. We’ve also added a data type and detailed description of each field. This XML schema is common to a number of products so some fields are not used in this case.
[att=1]
--
Sure, that'll work..
Click for full size
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17971068 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 08:19:23 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17971049
Problem is there isn't any.

Why do people like to post nonsense?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17971049 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 08:14:58 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17970806
System: P4 tower, Windows XP Pro SP1, no unusual hardware or software

Services:
Automatic and started: Event Log; Plug and Play; Print Spooler; Remote Procedure Call (RPC); Server; TrueVector Internet Monitor [= Zone Alarm]; Windows Audio; Windows Management Instrumentation; Workstation; ;
Manual and started: Network Connections; Network Location Awareness (NLA)
All others manual or disabled, and not running.

Running tasks: see image (if anyone can tell me how to get text above an image, please pm)

Zone Alarm settings: Nothing is allowed internet access without asking permission.

Patches selected for this experiment (all are version for XP SP1):
ms06-024, for Windows Media Player 10
ms06-042, cumulative update for IE6 SP1
ms06-055, VML fix, rev. 2006.10
ms06-061, XML fix
ms06-063, server service fix, revised

Procedure:
1. gather info and installers; logged on as admin
2. clear router log
3. shut down all network-accessing programs on all computers on lan, except browser to access router config
3. set router to log all traffic in & outbound; then close browser
5. install all 5 selected patches (opting for "do not restart now" when prompted for reboot)
6. reboot the XP; log on as administrator again and wait for userinit.exe to finish
7. check firewall log in router

Results:
* Zone Alarm did not alert on anything.
* log:

Fri, 2007-03-09 05:25:16 - UDP packet - Source:204.16.211.8,57052,WAN - Destination:[wan ip],1026,LAN [Drop] - [Inbound Default rule match]
Fri, 2007-03-09 05:25:16 - UDP packet - Source:204.16.211.8,57052,WAN - Destination:[wan ip],1027,LAN [Drop] - [Inbound Default rule match]
Fri, 2007-03-09 05:26:37 - UDP packet - Source:60.11.125.52,45190,WAN - Destination:[wan ip],1027,LAN [Drop] - [Inbound Default rule match]

Just the usual messenger spam.

Of course this does not rule out anything that may happen with other patches or on other configurations, etc.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17970806 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 05:43:16 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17970683
On the followup story, that MS grabs similar datasets on every transaction in MS Update, upon reflection I think this should not surprise anyone, and does not violate reasonable expectations. If you use that service you're giving Microsoft's Active X controls plenary power over your computer. I choose not to do that, but millions don't mind and that's fine.

On the question that mele and i wondered about, whether the standalone patch installers do anything sneaky, there were some clues in the slashdot thread - reports of firewalls flagging phone-home attemts (as well as other interesting information).

To pursue it further one would have to set up a second pc with packet capture and analysis. I plan to do that sometime when I have time, because I've become increasingly curious about this sort of thing, and whenever there's a discussion like this no one has a first-hand report. Unfortunately it won't happen in time for this thread.

Finally, i will try the low-budget version relying on router logs tonight. My router has a checkbox in the log config to log "All incoming and outgoing traffic", so i'll shut down all known network-using programs, turn on this router feature, install a few MS patches and see what happens. I have a backlog of not-yet-installed patches in the security series (msyy-nnn, year and serial number), so I'll select some that look harmless and try it and post here again.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17970683 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 03:34:15 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17970669
THEFT and PIRACY.........]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17970669 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 03:17:33 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17970635 said by MarkAW:

"So your okay with that and complain about computer hardware information being shared with microsoft?"

To answer your question no i do not think that is okay. I was trying to say that Microsoft is not a law enforcement agency to be collecting info on people who use legit licenced software. If i was using an illegal OS then i could understand the reason they want me download and install WGA every month, but as i have said before they know and i know i am using a legit OS.


More of a right than a Law Enforcement Agency should have in the case of your personally owned auto. Yet we seem to get more offended with Microsoft and the position they hold with a License agreement and their actions in the protection of their own rights, rights you agreed to when you purchased a license. I do agree though that they are a little short sighted in not pursuing a PR campaign in an attempt to gain acceptance of tactics. The revenue they are attempting to recover would make a great difference in the cost we all share.
--
Nemo me impune lacessit. [No one provokes me with impunity] -- Motto of the Crown of Scotland]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17970635 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 02:50:33 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17970610
To answer your question no i do not think that is okay. I was trying to say that Microsoft is not a law enforcement agency to be collecting info on people who use legit licenced software. If i was using an illegal OS then i could understand the reason they want me download and install WGA every month, but as i have said before they know and i know i am using a legit OS.
--
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell 'em, "Certainly I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. - Theodore Roosevelt (1859-1919)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17970610 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 02:27:04 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17970555
I get my updates manually and log my traffic. I have never seen a MS security patch call the mothership yet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17970555 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 01:54:44 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17970501 "Yeah but Microsoft is not a law enforcement agency."
You should also notice the question mark and notice that my statement was a question. It appears you would rather act offended in an effort to shut me up rather than clarify your statement.
The implication being that as applies to law enforcement it would be acceptable.
Could you have meant something else?

If you're that thin skinned, I am sorry you got offended.

But I do not accept that if that is the case I should not take note of what you are saying.
--
Nemo me impune lacessit.
[No one provokes me with impunity]
-- Motto of the Crown of Scotland]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17970501 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 01:33:59 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17970447 said by La Luna:

Problem being, MS could never prove otherwise to your satisfaction. You've already got it in your head that MS MUST be secretly using "something that bypasses firewalls and software....", no doubt about it, and nothing will change your mind. If you can't understand the simple concept of why they want basic, non personally identifying information about WU install successes and failures, it's a lost cause for anything beyond that.
You are talking about WU. I am talking about something entirely different. I can understand that they say they need information on those who use WU/MU. But I don't use those. I download individual patches from MS download site. I install them sometimes. Sometimes I never install them. I don't download all monthly patches on the same day either. In fact, I have just about stopped doing any patching except some critical ones. I'm tired of having to call MS about a patch problem. Or having to uninstall the one I just installed.

I wasn't asking about Microsoft saying they need information on those downloading from WU so they can improve WU site. I also was not asking about some NON PERSONALLY IDENTIFYING information being transmitted to Microsoft from the installer. I was asking about Microsoft placing something in the installer to let it know who is avoiding WU, etc. I don't care if MS collects non personal indentifying information but I think the day that would happen would be the day MS goes out of business. Of course, any information identifies you. MS admits that! They just say that they delete it and you believe them...just like Google mail and Google itself will never turn on the users..yeah..uhhuh. What I am interested in knowing though is whether or not MS is bypassing firewalls and software like ProcessGuard and transmitting information from the installer without the knowledge or consent of the user. Microsoft certainly would never fess up to that if true. So, what does it matter whether I would or wouldn't believe Microsoft?
--
"If you want to do DRM on a PC then you need to treat the user as the enemy." Ross Anderson in "`Trusted Computing' Frequently Asked Questions"

»www.msfirefox.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17970447 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 01:17:23 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17970382 said by Mele20:

Everyone knows that if you use WU/MU that information is phoned home regardless of whether you install WGA notification or not. You have to allow WGA validation to use WU/MU and you cannot remove it later from your computer. That is what I object to...not being to remove it or disable it without using a crack.

But what I want to know is if Microsoft has something hidden in the downloaded installer for a patch that you get from MS download site that calls home when the patch is installed...something that bypasses firewalls and software like ProcessGuard. No comments? Until proven that MS is not doing this, I certainly don't think the concerns in this thread are unwarranted. Further, DRM Fault, I have OEM XP so I don't get help from MS and they don't need to underhandly send anything back to HQ especially if they are doing it from the installer in order to get information on who avoids WU/MU.
Problem being, MS could never prove otherwise to your satisfaction. You've already got it in your head that MS MUST be secretly using "something that bypasses firewalls and software....", no doubt about it, and nothing will change your mind. If you can't understand the simple concept of why they want basic, non personally identifying information about WU install successes and failures, it's a lost cause for anything beyond that.
--
~~Well, I think you're crazy, I think you're crazy, I think you're crazy, just like me...~~

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17970382 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 00:57:43 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17970343 said by Doctor Four:

According to one of the replies on the latest Microsoft
phones home topic on Slashdot, it would be nearly impossible
to use Windows Update without some information being sent
back to Microsoft.

And another reply states that only in the case of pirated
software is the information retained. It is otherwise
deleted.

This is beginning to sound more and more like a case of
FUD from Heise Online.
I agree. The links don't "confirm" that anything nefarious is going on at all....quite the contrary actually.
--
~~Well, I think you're crazy, I think you're crazy, I think you're crazy, just like me...~~

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17970343 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 00:44:50 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17969955 said by Mele20:

But what I want to know is if Microsoft has something hidden in the downloaded installer for a patch that you get from MS download site that calls home when the patch is installed..What would be the point? "They" know you downloaded it, since you sent a request to their web site to download it. They can reasonably infer you're likely to install it, unless you're fond of sticking it to the man by downloading patches and then not installing them. If Microsoft wants to collect data on you, Occam's Razor says they'll do it in the obvious way when you ask for the download, not by some tricky means later.
--
Microsoft Security MVP, 2005-2007.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17969955 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 23:14:07 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17969733 said by PeeWee:

said by MarkAW:

said by PeeWee:

Does not only apply to rentals. The car you own stores the same information and can be retrieved by law enforcement agencies without a warrant in most cases.
Yeah but Microsoft is not a law enforcement agency.
So your okay with that and complain about computer hardware information being shared with microsoft?
Where in my statement do you see me agreeing with you or what you are saying. I clearly stated that Microsoft is not a law enforcement agency that was all i said so i would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth or posts thank you.
--
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell 'em, "Certainly I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. - Theodore Roosevelt (1859-1919)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17969733 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 22:32:21 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17969269
But what I want to know is if Microsoft has something hidden in the downloaded installer for a patch that you get from MS download site that calls home when the patch is installed...something that bypasses firewalls and software like ProcessGuard. No comments? Until proven that MS is not doing this, I certainly don't think the concerns in this thread are unwarranted. Further, DRM Fault, I have OEM XP so I don't get help from MS and they don't need to underhandly send anything back to HQ especially if they are doing it from the installer in order to get information on who avoids WU/MU.
--
"If you want to do DRM on a PC then you need to treat the user as the enemy." Ross Anderson in "`Trusted Computing' Frequently Asked Questions"

»www.msfirefox.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17969269 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 21:13:48 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17969106 said by MarkAW:

said by PeeWee:

Does not only apply to rentals. The car you own stores the same information and can be retrieved by law enforcement agencies without a warrant in most cases.
Yeah but Microsoft is not a law enforcement agency.
So your okay with that and complain about computer hardware information being shared with microsoft?
--
Nemo me impune lacessit. [No one provokes me with impunity] -- Motto of the Crown of Scotland]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17969106 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 20:43:44 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17969096 phones home topic on Slashdot, it would be nearly impossible
to use Windows Update without some information being sent
back to Microsoft.

And another reply states that only in the case of pirated
software is the information retained. It is otherwise
deleted.

This is beginning to sound more and more like a case of
FUD from Heise Online.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17969096 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 20:41:50 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17968864 »Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to

second link repeated here to prevent dummies like me from missing it for convenience: »blogs.msdn.com/wga/archive/2007/···try.aspx
--
Sure, that'll work..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17968864 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 20:03:03 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17968850 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17968850 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 20:00:52 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17968710 said by fatness:

said by Karl Bode:

The anon's comment seemed to inflame some, but he raises a valid question: has anyone confirmed this?
Good question. Confirmation or disproof would be nice.
I had to go hunt for the anon's comment (it should have been quoted since it was on the first page) and I still don't know exactly what you are asking. Confirmation or disproof of what? Microsoft has confirmed that information is sent back if you decline the install of WGA. The links are in swhx7's post.

Or are you wanting confirmation of swhx7's concern? That is what I want to know...do downloaded installers also bypass a firewall or, in my case, ProcessGuard and call home?

Or are you asking about the OT part of this thread regarding computers in certain automobiles calling home?
--
"If you want to do DRM on a PC then you need to treat the user as the enemy." Ross Anderson in "`Trusted Computing' Frequently Asked Questions"

»www.msfirefox.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17968710 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 19:38:48 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17968609 said by PeeWee:

Does not only apply to rentals. The car you own stores the same information and can be retrieved by law enforcement agencies without a warrant in most cases.
The car I own doesn't...
--
Team Discovery
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17968609 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 19:21:19 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17968538 said by Karl Bode:

The anon's comment seemed to inflame some, but he raises a valid question: has anyone confirmed this?
Good question. Confirmation or disproof would be nice.
--
Sure, that'll work..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17968538 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 19:09:58 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17968436 said by PeeWee:

Does not only apply to rentals. The car you own stores the same information and can be retrieved by law enforcement agencies without a warrant in most cases.
Yeah but Microsoft is not a law enforcement agency.
--
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell 'em, "Certainly I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. - Theodore Roosevelt (1859-1919)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17968436 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 18:51:26 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17968335 --
Nemo me impune lacessit.
[No one provokes me with impunity]
-- Motto of the Crown of Scotland]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17968335 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 18:33:56 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17968305 said by PeeWee:

[

Still more information than your computer os can report, all without a EULA. Operating the vehicle implies consent for this information to be used for or against you. All by downloading from vehicle on-board computer that you have no right to prevent.
Car rental agencies are liable in the event of an accident for a tremendous amount of money and are therefore entitled to a certain degree of information: has the driver been speeding, any "black box" type information in the event of an accident. They are even entitled to find out if the car has been taken to a geographic location- outside of the contract. They are allowed to collect license and credit card information to secure the rental. What they are not allowed to do is collect information on any other modes of transportation we use, if we walked or how far and what specific places we actually visited. A GPS doesn't specify what store/restaurant/business you went in to or what you purchased/ate there or who you talked to.

MS is not liable for anything I do with their OS. As long as I have purchased the license and verified it is legitimate I have fulfilled my obligation to them. If I choose not to participate in WGA they have NO right to monitor my registry or my online activities or any other software I have on my computer. Unless I ask them to because I'm having a specific problem. And I never ask. I couldn't care less about their "free" software offerings.

I'm also one of those people who doesn't use store cards and pay for most things in cash and try to ensure there is as little trackable data as possible - which is an ever losing battle these days.
--
Team Discovery
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17968305 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 18:28:57 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17968016
Heise »www.heise-security.co.uk/news/86429
MS blog »blogs.msdn.com/wga/archive/2007/···try.aspx
Slashdot »yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/03/08/1817210.shtml

Can anyone clarify whether this is true only when updates are installed by the automatic methods (Windows Update/Microsoft Update) or whether it is also true of downloaded installers for updates? I use the latter and have not seen any alerts on the software firewall, and would like to know whether MS is bypassing it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17968016 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:36:58 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17966760 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17966760 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 13:57:50 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17966488 said by MikeStammer:

if you are a legit user, why does it matter?!
Because, frankly, I don't like my information being sent to ANYBODY without my 1)consent and 2)knowing what information is being sent.
--
"I have measured out my life with coffee spoons..." - T.S Eliot
Ma Blog »www.johndball.com
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17966488 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 13:11:37 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17966460 said by DRM Fault :

said by Martinus:

Creo que cogiste a Google translation en un mal día.
If I had used Giggle to create that, it would have at least spelled Cumbiaberon properly. The joys of being anon. No corrections.
Sorry to hear that, compadre.

Gotta blame your Spanish teacher then. I mean, the synthax is, well...to put it mildly, un desastre, as García Márquez would say.

EDIT: not nearly as bad as my English synthax though

--
Si naciste pa' martillo del cielo te caen los clavos]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17966460 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 13:07:01 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17966453 said by Razzy:

I was being sarcastic. =)Not criticizing the comment, merely confirming your hyperbole. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17966453 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 13:05:54 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17966132 said by Martinus:

Creo que cogiste a Google translation en un mal día. If I had used Giggle to create that, it would have at least spelled Cumbiaberon properly. The joys of being anon. No corrections.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17966132 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 12:11:45 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17965965 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17965965 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:37:30 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17965949 said by Martinus:

said by Name Game:

said by ABL1:

My point is this: WGA does not affect pirates of software, only legitimate users. Pirates are going to be smart enough to use other means to update their OS I would think. I was ok with it for downloads and updates, but something that constantly has to phone home to check if my version of Windows is legit. is over the top. I am not anti-MS, I've used Windows for years, but at what point does WGA become intrusive? It's there already.
Think again..

»Purchase PC with unauthorized Windows - get sent to Siberia?

Not only was the school teacher innocent..but the people who sold the PC's with the phoney software cheated the school..and made money on it..and I am sure the school could not even UPDATE their PCs.

Well, that's ABL1 See Profile's point. Apparently he, who supposedly was legit, was the one that got slapped - and sent to the Gulag.
:D thats cause he knew it was pirated junk..most likely even got a kick back on the deal if you read the small print..but I am sure Microsoft help him out of the Big Time House..letting all involved in the case that Know it was not just an isolated incident..and they could show the guy who sold the stuff to them..was doing it all over russia.
--
Gladiator Security Forum »www.gladiator-antivirus.com/ Missing Kids »www.missingkids.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17965949 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:34:46 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17965894 said by Name Game:

said by ABL1:

My point is this: WGA does not affect pirates of software, only legitimate users. Pirates are going to be smart enough to use other means to update their OS I would think. I was ok with it for downloads and updates, but something that constantly has to phone home to check if my version of Windows is legit. is over the top. I am not anti-MS, I've used Windows for years, but at what point does WGA become intrusive? It's there already.
Think again..

»Purchase PC with unauthorized Windows - get sent to Siberia?

Not only was the school teacher innocent..but the people who sold the PC's with the phoney software cheated the school..and made money on it..and I am sure the school could not even UPDATE their PCs.



Well, that's ABL1 See Profile's point. Apparently he, who supposedly was legit, was the one that got slapped - and sent to the Gulag.
--
Si naciste pa' martillo del cielo te caen los clavos]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17965894 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:24:53 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17965887 said by MarkAW:

This is why i am so glad this is happening »Vista, IE7, Office 2007 Banned by US DOT & FAA.
The money that Microsoft will be losing because of this may wake them up and they will start to listen to the consumers.
We have couple of "Microsoft Can Do No Wrong" people here, and they are pissed that at least our part of the Fed has banned Vista on our computers. They had to have their computers wiped and reloaded because they did an unauthorized upgrade :D.
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-WGA-phones-home-even-when-told-not-to-17965887 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:24:25 EDT