Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to in Security

Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to in Security http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r17968016 en Fri, 27 Nov 2009 23:59:45 EDT Fri, 27 Nov 2009 23:59:45 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17979111 dave :

said by Kill DRM :

said by dave

:

The truth is surely that Microsoft has an interest in deriving a unique id for your system.

If you are insinuating that Microsoft's assigning you unique system ID (in addition to the unique product ID) is something bad, please elaborate.

Touchy? If I'd meant that, I would have written it.
--
Microsoft Security MVP, 2005-2007.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17979111 Sat, 10 Mar 2007 17:10:27 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17977013 novaflare :

said by dave

Lets say your maxtor hd has a recall notice and they share this information with ms and this recall notice effects a given set of serial numbers between x and y. Now ms could update wga so that when you use it wga pops up a alert box.

Actually i miss read what was said any how. Its not hard drive serial number but volume serial number. Big diffrence hard drive serial number is built in to the drives controller board and does not change. Volume serial number is created at time of format and changes with each format. So it is a moot point any ways. Simply put its a hash and its a bit of info that changes easly so it still cant be use to tie a individual computer to a persons name.

Heres my serial number off my mouse lzk529095386 now who am i? The only name you know me by novaflare only personal information you have on me is in my profile and posting tags.

In the end its the same with wga and ms. They know its the same computer that matches what ever information was sent during registration of the os on install but thats it. It is really simple to keep your name addy and other truely identifing info out of the hand of microsoft you simply do not put it in when registering. Or you use fake for all or part. BTW i changed a few numbers on my mouses serial number for the frum post as im waiting on a rma replacement and they never asked for the mouse bback just said it would be week to 10 days for replacement.
--
Evil does exist and it has a face to often that face is one that should look on their child with love in their eyes.

Instead only hate exists in those eyes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17977013 Sat, 10 Mar 2007 09:16:44 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17974356 Name Game :

said by chrome dome :

I've heard that Vista was designed (at least in part) by a joint venture between MS and big brother in order to make spying on its users easier. I heard about it on a radio show, so I don't have a link to post. They claim there is a backdoor deliberately put in to Vista so big brother can spy on anyone whenever they want to. Any one hear more about it possibly being true or not?

Yes this is true. The United Building Code now requires two doors for saftey reason unless you own a Mobile. Then replacing windows is optional. In all versions users should still put the lid down after they flush, independent of any joint venture.

I would quote you the regulation but I ran out of paper.
--
Gladiator Security Forum »www.gladiator-antivirus.com/
Missing Kids
»www.missingkids.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17974356 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 18:17:38 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17974228 AB :

said by Kill DRM :

said by AB

:

BTW, has it ever occurred to anyone that the letters of "Service Pack 2" can be easily rearranged to spell "Vice Pact Workes"? As well as "Swear to Veicck"?
"Dark Lord", "Beelzebub", "Satan", "Veicck"-- He goes by many names . . . .

You need to actually spell the word "TWO" to include "Dubya" in your list.

Changed it.

Who in the hell registered my "DRM Fault" anon name ??!!

LMAO!! :D
Apparently, it was available. Someone must have liked it! :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17974228 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 17:54:21 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17974055 anon : I've heard that Vista was designed (at least in part) by a joint venture between MS and big brother in order to make spying on its users easier. I heard about it on a radio show, so I don't have a link to post. They claim there is a backdoor deliberately put in to Vista so big brother can spy on anyone whenever they want to. Any one hear more about it possibly being true or not?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17974055 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 17:27:00 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17973885 anon :

said by dave

:

The truth is surely that Microsoft has an interest in deriving a unique id for your system.

If you are insinuating that Microsoft's assigning you unique system ID (in addition to the unique product ID) is something bad, please elaborate.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17973885 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:57:48 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17973863 anon :

said by AB

You need to actually spell the word "TWO" to include "Dubya" in your list. Who in the hell registered my "DRM Fault" anon name ??!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17973863 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:54:49 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17973813 dave :

Yes, they could. But Microsoft has never given any indication whatsoever that it wants to be in the business of disseminating 'recall' information for the world's hardware vendors. Thus, this is pure fantasy.

The truth is surely that Microsoft has an interest in deriving a unique id for your system. Let's not pretend that it's for the good of your disk drive.
--
Microsoft Security MVP, 2005-2007.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17973813 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:49:56 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17973650 Mele20 :

said by Razzy

:

Yeah ok whatever,

Problem is there isn't any.

Why do people like to post nonsense?

You shouldn't post nonsense either. QUOTE the person you are replying to please. Your comment makes no sense until I scroll way, way back up (not one or two posts but way up) and finally find SUMware' comment. Even after I did that, your reply doesn't make much sense.
--
"If you want to do DRM on a PC then you need to treat the user as the enemy." Ross Anderson in "`Trusted Computing' Frequently Asked Questions"

»www.msfirefox.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17973650 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:27:54 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17973373 OZO :

said by swhx7

:

Running tasks: see image (if anyone can tell me how to get text above an image, please pm)

Run: tasklist
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17973373 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 15:43:22 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17972186 AB :

said by swhx7

:

Tried the above-described experiment.

System: P4 tower, Windows XP Pro SP1, no unusual hardware or software . . . .

Ah! But the experiment has been invalidated through the use of the "Waldo's Flypaper" theorem (the opposite of "Occam's Razor"), which states that you don't have SP2 installed, which, as recently as 2004, many people were calling the Devil Himself:

»Re: Vista Bitches and complaints.

BTW, has it ever occurred to anyone that the letters of "Service Pack Two" can be easily rearranged to spell "Vice Pact Workes"? As well as "Swear to Veicck"?
"Dark Lord", "Beelzebub", "Satan", "Veicck"-- He goes by many names . . . .

*Edit- Clarification]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17972186 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 12:18:51 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17971886 Name Game : Windows Genuine Advantage Problems and Solutions

»www.pchell.com/support/windowsge···ge.shtml

Since the above site will tell you how to fix it..if the process for you is broken..it also contains info on what any one can to to not even make it happen :D And it still surprise me that all the privacy hawks do not have in place those "tricks" to not even let "Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to" because without them set up..they are vulnerable at every site they visit for more then just an in your face WGA.

I do accept the WGA..but I do it on my own terms. ;)

Next time you put your bank or credit card in an atm and decide to cancel the process..ask yourself if they already read your card. :uhh:
--
Gladiator Security Forum »www.gladiator-antivirus.com/ Missing Kids »www.missingkids.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17971886 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 11:24:13 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17971652 FiL : "As for MS doing something with out your consent, Remember you don't own the software your only licensing it. I would more compare it to a rental car, and I believe they can get in to your car if they have cause with out your consent."

Thus proving your not a lawyer and you can't read.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17971652 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 10:36:55 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17971538 novaflare :

said by Doctor Four

:

According to one of the replies on the latest Microsoft
phones home topic on Slashdot, it would be nearly impossible
to use Windows Update without some information being sent
back to Microsoft.

And another reply states that only in the case of pirated
software is the information retained. It is otherwise
deleted.

This is beginning to sound more and more like a case of
FUD from Heise Online.

Na we could go back to early win 95 meathods. Downloading each individually grab them all and hope to god that one does not break functinality under a given set of conditions.

When windows update sends information to the server and gathers a list of updates any that are known to break somethign on your computer some application for example then it is left out. With out this information you get them all and to hell with it if it busts your favorite cant live with out application.

As drm fault said "Any customer service my supplier of a $140 piece of software wants to provide to me would be most welcome. So, they collect the serial number of the hard drive and your license key ? Oh my god, damn !"

On the surface it would seem that there no need for the hd serial number aka volume serial number. But think about this little what if.

Lets say your maxtor hd has a recall notice and they share this information with ms and this recall notice effects a given set of serial numbers between x and y. Now ms could update wga so that when you use it wga pops up a alert box.

"Alert maxtor has isued a recall notice for your hard drive do to spontaneous failures resulting in loss of data. Click this link to find out more."

Sure they could limit wga to only model number but failures in hardware can happen only in a small number of a given model ibm deskstore any one? or how about the dell laptop batteries that were exploading that only effect about 10k of the batteries out at the time out of a total 100k. In dells cases they followed a better safe than sorry approach and isued a recall for all laptops useing the battery model.

Point is wga doesnt do this yet but it could be made to do so or hell may already have those abilities and just never been used yet do to no recalls on hard drives.
Of all the parts that can blow up on a computer hds are number 1 on the list secound only to maybe powersupplies.

Can and does ms use the serial number to make sure your not installing xp on a dozen comps sure they can and probabbly do. I bet theres a specific tolerance that is built in to wga to prevent false possitives when it comes to faziling a install. Maybe 3 maybe 10 who knows. Sure would be a handy way to spot pirated installs from computer retailers cloneing images including keys to dozens of hds.

When it comes to pirated software we all know full well that pirates have in the past coded in trojans keyloggers proxies full blown ftp servers irc bots for botnets etc all right in to their cracks they pre apply to the pirated software. Totaly undetectable in most cases unless you tend to watch data packets.

Its hard to tell how many pirated copies of xp and other ms oses are acting like a terorist sleeper cell just waiting to be woke up to launch a attack agaisnt a web site or server. We have seen this with many a email worm and other worm types so why now build that in to a pirated os?
--
Evil does exist and it has a face to often that face is one that should look on their child with love in their eyes.

Instead only hate exists in those eyes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17971538 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 10:17:30 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17971090 novaflare :

said by Doctor Four

:

According to someone who posted this at Slashdot,

»yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/03/07/162203.shtml

I knew there was a good reason for my refusing the
download of this. It appears to send some kind of
unique ID to Microsoft.

Of corse it sends a unique id thats pretty obviously how it works. The id is your cd key or a hash of hardware and cd key similar to activation. Not like they can tell that the id belongs to doctor four and not novaflare.
--
Evil does exist and it has a face to often that face is one that should look on their child with love in their eyes.

Instead only hate exists in those eyes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17971090 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 08:23:46 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17971068 fatness : »blogs.msdn.com/wga/archive/2007/···try.aspx

[att=1]
--
Sure, that'll work..

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17971068 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 08:19:23 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17971049 Razzy : Yeah ok whatever,

Problem is there isn't any.

Why do people like to post nonsense?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17971049 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 08:14:58 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17970806 swhx7 : Tried the above-described experiment.

System: P4 tower, Windows XP Pro SP1, no unusual hardware or software

Services:
Automatic and started: Event Log; Plug and Play; Print Spooler; Remote Procedure Call (RPC); Server; TrueVector Internet Monitor [= Zone Alarm]; Windows Audio; Windows Management Instrumentation; Workstation; ;
Manual and started: Network Connections; Network Location Awareness (NLA)
All others manual or disabled, and not running.

Running tasks: see image (if anyone can tell me how to get text above an image, please pm)

Zone Alarm settings: Nothing is allowed internet access without asking permission.

Patches selected for this experiment (all are version for XP SP1):
ms06-024, for Windows Media Player 10
ms06-042, cumulative update for IE6 SP1
ms06-055, VML fix, rev. 2006.10
ms06-061, XML fix
ms06-063, server service fix, revised

Procedure:
1. gather info and installers; logged on as admin
2. clear router log
3. shut down all network-accessing programs on all computers on lan, except browser to access router config
3. set router to log all traffic in & outbound; then close browser
5. install all 5 selected patches (opting for "do not restart now" when prompted for reboot)
6. reboot the XP; log on as administrator again and wait for userinit.exe to finish
7. check firewall log in router

Results:
* Zone Alarm did not alert on anything.
* log:

Fri, 2007-03-09 05:25:16 - UDP packet - Source:204.16.211.8,57052,WAN - Destination:[wan ip],1026,LAN [Drop] - [Inbound Default rule match]
Fri, 2007-03-09 05:25:16 - UDP packet - Source:204.16.211.8,57052,WAN - Destination:[wan ip],1027,LAN [Drop] - [Inbound Default rule match]
Fri, 2007-03-09 05:26:37 - UDP packet - Source:60.11.125.52,45190,WAN - Destination:[wan ip],1027,LAN [Drop] - [Inbound Default rule match]

Just the usual messenger spam.

Of course this does not rule out anything that may happen with other patches or on other configurations, etc.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17970806 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 05:43:16 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17970683 swhx7 : The behavior that this thread started out being about, namely WGA installations "phoning home" even if aborted, rightly offends people because it betrays reasonable expectations. And before the Microsoft fans start braying about licence terms and such, yes I'm sure Microsoft has granted itself permission to do that and much more, somewhere in its morass of one-sided, non-negotiable fine print. That does not reduce the sleaze factor.

On the followup story, that MS grabs similar datasets on every transaction in MS Update, upon reflection I think this should not surprise anyone, and does not violate reasonable expectations. If you use that service you're giving Microsoft's Active X controls plenary power over your computer. I choose not to do that, but millions don't mind and that's fine.

On the question that mele and i wondered about, whether the standalone patch installers do anything sneaky, there were some clues in the slashdot thread - reports of firewalls flagging phone-home attemts (as well as other interesting information).

To pursue it further one would have to set up a second pc with packet capture and analysis. I plan to do that sometime when I have time, because I've become increasingly curious about this sort of thing, and whenever there's a discussion like this no one has a first-hand report. Unfortunately it won't happen in time for this thread.

Finally, i will try the low-budget version relying on router logs tonight. My router has a checkbox in the log config to log "All incoming and outgoing traffic", so i'll shut down all known network-using programs, turn on this router feature, install a few MS patches and see what happens. I have a backlog of not-yet-installed patches in the security series (msyy-nnn, year and serial number), so I'll select some that look harmless and try it and post here again.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17970683 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 03:34:15 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17970669 anon : So MS use my connection without my express permission, the connection I pay for, taking and using something without permission....

THEFT and PIRACY.........]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17970669 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 03:17:33 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17970635 PeeWee :

said by MarkAW

:

"So your okay with that and complain about computer hardware information being shared with microsoft?"

To answer your question no i do not think that is okay. I was trying to say that Microsoft is not a law enforcement agency to be collecting info on people who use legit licenced software. If i was using an illegal OS then i could understand the reason they want me download and install WGA every month, but as i have said before they know and i know i am using a legit OS.

More of a right than a Law Enforcement Agency should have in the case of your personally owned auto. Yet we seem to get more offended with Microsoft and the position they hold with a License agreement and their actions in the protection of their own rights, rights you agreed to when you purchased a license. I do agree though that they are a little short sighted in not pursuing a PR campaign in an attempt to gain acceptance of tactics. The revenue they are attempting to recover would make a great difference in the cost we all share.
--
Nemo me impune lacessit. [No one provokes me with impunity] -- Motto of the Crown of Scotland]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17970635 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 02:50:33 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17970610 MarkAW : "So your okay with that and complain about computer hardware information being shared with microsoft?"

To answer your question no i do not think that is okay. I was trying to say that Microsoft is not a law enforcement agency to be collecting info on people who use legit licenced software. If i was using an illegal OS then i could understand the reason they want me download and install WGA every month, but as i have said before they know and i know i am using a legit OS.
--
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell 'em, "Certainly I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. - Theodore Roosevelt (1859-1919)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17970610 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 02:27:04 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17970555 alfee : If you have a router it probably has logging capabilities. Just use that to see if any MS security patches "phone home". You can also use utilities like WallWatcher or LinkLogger to keep an eye on your router logs.

I get my updates manually and log my traffic. I have never seen a MS security patch call the mothership yet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17970555 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 01:54:44 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17970501 PeeWee : I did not put words in your mouth. (Note the quote)
"Yeah but Microsoft is not a law enforcement agency."
You should also notice the question mark and notice that my statement was a question. It appears you would rather act offended in an effort to shut me up rather than clarify your statement.
The implication being that as applies to law enforcement it would be acceptable.
Could you have meant something else?

If you're that thin skinned, I am sorry you got offended.

But I do not accept that if that is the case I should not take note of what you are saying.
--
Nemo me impune lacessit.
[No one provokes me with impunity]
-- Motto of the Crown of Scotland]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17970501 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 01:33:59 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17970447 Mele20 :

said by La Luna

:

Problem being, MS could never prove otherwise to your satisfaction. You've already got it in your head that MS MUST be secretly using "something that bypasses firewalls and software....", no doubt about it, and nothing will change your mind. If you can't understand the simple concept of why they want basic, non personally identifying information about WU install successes and failures, it's a lost cause for anything beyond that.

You are talking about WU. I am talking about something entirely different. I can understand that they say they need information on those who use WU/MU. But I don't use those. I download individual patches from MS download site. I install them sometimes. Sometimes I never install them. I don't download all monthly patches on the same day either. In fact, I have just about stopped doing any patching except some critical ones. I'm tired of having to call MS about a patch problem. Or having to uninstall the one I just installed.

I wasn't asking about Microsoft saying they need information on those downloading from WU so they can improve WU site. I also was not asking about some NON PERSONALLY IDENTIFYING information being transmitted to Microsoft from the installer. I was asking about Microsoft placing something in the installer to let it know who is avoiding WU, etc. I don't care if MS collects non personal indentifying information but I think the day that would happen would be the day MS goes out of business. Of course, any information identifies you. MS admits that! They just say that they delete it and you believe them...just like Google mail and Google itself will never turn on the users..yeah..uhhuh. What I am interested in knowing though is whether or not MS is bypassing firewalls and software like ProcessGuard and transmitting information from the installer without the knowledge or consent of the user. Microsoft certainly would never fess up to that if true. So, what does it matter whether I would or wouldn't believe Microsoft?
--
"If you want to do DRM on a PC then you need to treat the user as the enemy." Ross Anderson in "`Trusted Computing' Frequently Asked Questions"

»www.msfirefox.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17970447 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 01:17:23 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17970382 La Luna :

said by Mele20

:

Everyone knows that if you use WU/MU that information is phoned home regardless of whether you install WGA notification or not. You have to allow WGA validation to use WU/MU and you cannot remove it later from your computer. That is what I object to...not being to remove it or disable it without using a crack.

But what I want to know is if Microsoft has something hidden in the downloaded installer for a patch that you get from MS download site that calls home when the patch is installed...something that bypasses firewalls and software like ProcessGuard. No comments? Until proven that MS is not doing this, I certainly don't think the concerns in this thread are unwarranted. Further, DRM Fault, I have OEM XP so I don't get help from MS and they don't need to underhandly send anything back to HQ especially if they are doing it from the installer in order to get information on who avoids WU/MU.

Problem being, MS could never prove otherwise to your satisfaction. You've already got it in your head that MS MUST be secretly using "something that bypasses firewalls and software....", no doubt about it, and nothing will change your mind. If you can't understand the simple concept of why they want basic, non personally identifying information about WU install successes and failures, it's a lost cause for anything beyond that.
--
~~Well, I think you're crazy, I think you're crazy, I think you're crazy, just like me...~~

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17970382 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 00:57:43 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17970343 La Luna :

said by Doctor Four

I agree. The links don't "confirm" that anything nefarious is going on at all....quite the contrary actually.
--
~~Well, I think you're crazy, I think you're crazy, I think you're crazy, just like me...~~

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17970343 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 00:44:50 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17969955 dave :

said by Mele20

:

But what I want to know is if Microsoft has something hidden in the downloaded installer for a patch that you get from MS download site that calls home when the patch is installed..

What would be the point? "They" know you downloaded it, since you sent a request to their web site to download it. They can reasonably infer you're likely to install it, unless you're fond of sticking it to the man by downloading patches and then not installing them. If Microsoft wants to collect data on you, Occam's Razor says they'll do it in the obvious way when you ask for the download, not by some tricky means later.
--
Microsoft Security MVP, 2005-2007.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17969955 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 23:14:07 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17969733 MarkAW :

said by PeeWee

said by MarkAW

said by PeeWee

:

Does not only apply to rentals. The car you own stores the same information and can be retrieved by law enforcement agencies without a warrant in most cases.

Yeah but Microsoft is not a law enforcement agency.

So your okay with that and complain about computer hardware information being shared with microsoft?

Where in my statement do you see me agreeing with you or what you are saying. I clearly stated that Microsoft is not a law enforcement agency that was all i said so i would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth or posts thank you.
--
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell 'em, "Certainly I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. - Theodore Roosevelt (1859-1919)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17969733 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 22:32:21 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17969269 Mele20 : Everyone knows that if you use WU/MU that information is phoned home regardless of whether you install WGA notification or not. You have to allow WGA validation to use WU/MU and you cannot remove it later from your computer. That is what I object to...not being to remove it or disable it without using a crack.

But what I want to know is if Microsoft has something hidden in the downloaded installer for a patch that you get from MS download site that calls home when the patch is installed...something that bypasses firewalls and software like ProcessGuard. No comments? Until proven that MS is not doing this, I certainly don't think the concerns in this thread are unwarranted. Further, DRM Fault, I have OEM XP so I don't get help from MS and they don't need to underhandly send anything back to HQ especially if they are doing it from the installer in order to get information on who avoids WU/MU.
--
"If you want to do DRM on a PC then you need to treat the user as the enemy." Ross Anderson in "`Trusted Computing' Frequently Asked Questions"

»www.msfirefox.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17969269 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 21:13:48 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17969106 PeeWee :

said by MarkAW

said by PeeWee

:

Does not only apply to rentals. The car you own stores the same information and can be retrieved by law enforcement agencies without a warrant in most cases.

Yeah but Microsoft is not a law enforcement agency.

So your okay with that and complain about computer hardware information being shared with microsoft?
--
Nemo me impune lacessit. [No one provokes me with impunity] -- Motto of the Crown of Scotland]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17969106 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 20:43:44 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17969096 Doctor Four : According to one of the replies on the latest Microsoft
phones home topic on Slashdot, it would be nearly impossible
to use Windows Update without some information being sent
back to Microsoft.

And another reply states that only in the case of pirated
software is the information retained. It is otherwise
deleted.

This is beginning to sound more and more like a case of
FUD from Heise Online.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17969096 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 20:41:50 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17968864 fatness : Thank you. I had missed that post. The second link in this provides the information.
»Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to

second link repeated here ~~to prevent dummies like me from missing it~~ for convenience: »blogs.msdn.com/wga/archive/2007/···try.aspx
--
Sure, that'll work..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17968864 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 20:03:03 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17968850 anon : You are correct Melee, those links do confirm the worst. They also explain pretty well what is being returned and why. Looks like natural normal info that is just part of the customer care system. Lots of folks getting pretty frothed up for some pretty skinny looking reasons. Any customer service my supplier of a $140 piece of software wants to provide to me would be most welcome. So, they collect the serial number of the hard drive and your license key ? Oh my god, damn !]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17968850 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 20:00:52 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17968710 Mele20 :

said by fatness

said by Karl Bode

:

The anon's comment seemed to inflame some, but he raises a valid question: has anyone confirmed this?

Good question. Confirmation or disproof would be nice.

I had to go hunt for the anon's comment (it should have been quoted since it was on the first page) and I still don't know exactly what you are asking. Confirmation or disproof of what? Microsoft has confirmed that information is sent back if you decline the install of WGA. The links are in swhx7's post.

Or are you wanting confirmation of swhx7's concern? That is what I want to know...do downloaded installers also bypass a firewall or, in my case, ProcessGuard and call home?

Or are you asking about the OT part of this thread regarding computers in certain automobiles calling home?
--
"If you want to do DRM on a PC then you need to treat the user as the enemy." Ross Anderson in "`Trusted Computing' Frequently Asked Questions"

»www.msfirefox.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17968710 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 19:38:48 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17968609 mers2 :

said by PeeWee

:

Does not only apply to rentals. The car you own stores the same information and can be retrieved by law enforcement agencies without a warrant in most cases.

The car I own doesn't...
--
Team Discovery
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17968609 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 19:21:19 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17968538 fatness :

said by Karl Bode

:

The anon's comment seemed to inflame some, but he raises a valid question: has anyone confirmed this?

Good question. Confirmation or disproof would be nice.
--
Sure, that'll work..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17968538 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 19:09:58 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17968436 MarkAW :

said by PeeWee

:

Does not only apply to rentals. The car you own stores the same information and can be retrieved by law enforcement agencies without a warrant in most cases.

Yeah but Microsoft is not a law enforcement agency.
--
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell 'em, "Certainly I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. - Theodore Roosevelt (1859-1919)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17968436 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 18:51:26 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17968335 PeeWee : Does not only apply to rentals. The car you own stores the same information and can be retrieved by law enforcement agencies without a warrant in most cases.
--
Nemo me impune lacessit.
[No one provokes me with impunity]
-- Motto of the Crown of Scotland]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17968335 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 18:33:56 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17968305 mers2 :

said by PeeWee

:

[

Still more information than your computer os can report, all without a EULA. Operating the vehicle implies consent for this information to be used for or against you. All by downloading from vehicle on-board computer that you have no right to prevent.

Car rental agencies are liable in the event of an accident for a tremendous amount of money and are therefore entitled to a certain degree of information: has the driver been speeding, any "black box" type information in the event of an accident. They are even entitled to find out if the car has been taken to a geographic location- outside of the contract. They are allowed to collect license and credit card information to secure the rental. What they are not allowed to do is collect information on any other modes of transportation we use, if we walked or how far and what specific places we actually visited. A GPS doesn't specify what store/restaurant/business you went in to or what you purchased/ate there or who you talked to.

MS is not liable for anything I do with their OS. As long as I have purchased the license and verified it is legitimate I have fulfilled my obligation to them. If I choose not to participate in WGA they have NO right to monitor my registry or my online activities or any other software I have on my computer. Unless I ask them to because I'm having a specific problem. And I never ask. I couldn't care less about their "free" software offerings.

I'm also one of those people who doesn't use store cards and pay for most things in cash and try to ensure there is as little trackable data as possible - which is an ever losing battle these days.
--
Team Discovery
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17968305 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 18:28:57 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17968016 swhx7 : All Windows Update installations send back similar data sets to Microsoft, according to the followup story.

Heise »www.heise-security.co.uk/news/86429
MS blog »blogs.msdn.com/wga/archive/2007/···try.aspx
Slashdot »yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/03/08/1817210.shtml

Can anyone clarify whether this is true only when updates are installed by the automatic methods (Windows Update/Microsoft Update) or whether it is also true of downloaded installers for updates? I use the latter and have not seen any alerts on the software firewall, and would like to know whether MS is bypassing it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17968016 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:36:58 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17966760 Karl Bode : The anon's comment seemed to inflame some, but he raises a valid question: has anyone confirmed this?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17966760 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 13:57:50 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17966488 exocet_cm :

said by MikeStammer

:

if you are a legit user, why does it matter?!

Because, frankly, I don't like my information being sent to ANYBODY without my 1)consent and 2)knowing what information is being sent.
--
"I have measured out my life with coffee spoons..." - T.S Eliot
Ma Blog »www.johndball.com
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17966488 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 13:11:37 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17966460 Martinus :

said by DRM Fault :

said by Martinus

:

Creo que cogiste a Google translation en un mal día.

If I had used Giggle to create that, it would have at least spelled Cumbiaberon properly. The joys of being anon. No corrections.

Sorry to hear that, compadre.

Gotta blame your Spanish teacher then. I mean, the synthax is, well...to put it mildly, un desastre, as García Márquez would say.

EDIT: not nearly as bad as my English synthax though

--
Si naciste pa' martillo del cielo te caen los clavos]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17966460 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 13:07:01 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17966453 SUMware :

said by Razzy

:

I was being sarcastic. =)

Not criticizing the comment, merely confirming your hyperbole. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17966453 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 13:05:54 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17966132 anon :

said by Martinus

:

Creo que cogiste a Google translation en un mal día.

If I had used Giggle to create that, it would have at least spelled Cumbiaberon properly. The joys of being anon. No corrections.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17966132 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 12:11:45 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17965965 Razzy : While I am not sure of the point of your post, I was being sarcastic. =)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17965965 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:37:30 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17965949 Name Game :

said by Martinus

said by Name Game

said by ABL

:

My point is this: WGA does not affect pirates of software, only legitimate users. Pirates are going to be smart enough to use other means to update their OS I would think. I was ok with it for downloads and updates, but something that constantly has to phone home to check if my version of Windows is legit. is over the top. I am not anti-MS, I've used Windows for years, but at what point does WGA become intrusive? It's there already.

Well, that's ABL

's point. Apparently he, who supposedly was legit, was the one that got slapped - and sent to the Gulag.

:D thats cause he knew it was pirated junk..most likely even got a kick back on the deal if you read the small print..but I am sure Microsoft help him out of the Big Time House..letting all involved in the case that Know it was not just an isolated incident..and they could show the guy who sold the stuff to them..was doing it all over russia.
--
Gladiator Security Forum »www.gladiator-antivirus.com/ Missing Kids »www.missingkids.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17965949 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:34:46 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17965894 Martinus :

said by Name Game

said by ABL

Well, that's ABL

's point. Apparently he, who supposedly was legit, was the one that got slapped - and sent to the Gulag.
--
Si naciste pa' martillo del cielo te caen los clavos]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17965894 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:24:53 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17965887 RayW :

said by MarkAW

:

This is why i am so glad this is happening »Vista, IE7, Office 2007 Banned by US DOT & FAA.
The money that Microsoft will be losing because of this may wake them up and they will start to listen to the consumers.

We have couple of "Microsoft Can Do No Wrong" people here, and they are pissed that at least our part of the Fed has banned Vista on our computers. They had to have their computers wiped and reloaded because they did an unauthorized upgrade :D.
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17965887 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:24:25 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17965820 Name Game :

said by ABL

Think again..

»Purchase PC with unauthorized Windows - get sent to Siberia?

Not only was the school teacher innocent..but the people who sold the PC's with the phoney software cheated the school..and made money on it..and I am sure the school could not even UPDATE their PCs.

here is the bottom line "other story" from the last post in the thread
»www.betanews.com/article/Russian···71558743

--
Gladiator Security Forum »www.gladiator-antivirus.com/
Missing Kids
»www.missingkids.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17965820 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:14:37 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17965797 SUMware :

said by Razzy

:

Oh no! My Monte Carlo SS has that damn OnStar!!! CHEVY ARE SPYING ON ME!!

From C|Net News:

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17965797 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:09:56 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17965463 ChicagoSid : But we need to give up alittle bit of our freedom or the TERRIORISTS WILL WIN!!

Wait.. opps wrong forum..

Sorry..

for the record I agree keep the company out of my personal computer.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17965463 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 10:06:38 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17965342 Razzy : Oh no! My Monte Carlo SS has that damn OnStar!!! CHEVY ARE SPYING ON ME!! OMGZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17965342 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 09:39:15 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17965226 PeeWee :

said by mers2

:

GPS and logging may tell them where I've been, but it won't tell them everything I've been doing and even if the car is stopped at a location there is no way of logging if I went anywhere else without the car be it via walking or another vehicle.

Still more information than your computer os can report, all without a EULA. Operating the vehicle implies consent for this information to be used for or against you. All by downloading from vehicle on-board computer that you have no right to prevent.
--
Nemo me impune lacessit. [No one provokes me with impunity] -- Motto of the Crown of Scotland]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17965226 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 09:13:50 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17965182 AB :

said by Martinus

said by DRM Fault :

No te precupes. Soy un Cumiaberon. . . . .

. . . . Que feo ! ;)

Creo que cogiste a Google translation en un mal día. La traducción es una auténtica cagada.

Yep. Gotta at least give him an 'A' for effort on that one, though. :D

Just remember not to leave the pr0n rags under the driver's seat when you deliver the car back.

Never happen. They're on the coffee table, underneath "BH & G", at all times. ;)

said by Link Logger

:

Come on people how hard do you think it is to slap a network sniffer on something and see what is being sent? Is it encrypted, what do you think and why do you think that and would you want it to be anyways? . . . .

I tend to doubt most users would be able to "slap a network sniffer" on their connection, even if they wanted to.
Yet their outgoing info is no less personal, and possibly undesired, because of that lack of ability.

And Microsoft admittedly says one of the things WGA does is assign each computer a "unique I.D." Quite obviously something above and beyond the "unique I.D." it already possesses from it's Product Key.
That, simply in and of itself, would seem to make any info collected 'personal', would it not?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17965182 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 09:00:10 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964995 33591094 :

said by Link Logger

[/BQUOTE :

Come on people how hard do you think it is to slap a network sniffer on something and see what is being sent? Is it encrypted, what do you think and why do you think that and would you want it to be anyways?

Well, according to the news post on Neowin regarding this reporting from CT, some of the data sent does appear to be encrypted. I quote...

"They used Wireshark to analyze the traffic and found out that update.exe sends data to genuine.microsoft.com. Some of the data seems to be encrypted while some could be identified. It sends registry information, namely the SusClientID as well as information about the version of the WGA tool, the windows version and the language of the operating system. It also sets a cookie which contains a GUID which could possibly be used to identify the computer." »www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=38614

Just passing on what I'm reading. Maybe someone that can actually read German can take a look at CT's work and tell us what it says. Google translations suck...

»www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/85884]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964995 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 08:08:38 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964942 Martinus :

said by Link Logger

said by Martinus

:

A NAT router won't alert you of outgoing connections

Mine do (cheap Linksys, Netgear and Zyxel routers/firewalls)...

Because they are routers/firewalls? Most simple NAT routers will log outbound traffic but won't alert you of unsolicited outbound connections. At least mine - an aging BEFSR41 V3 - doesn't.
--
Si naciste pa' martillo del cielo te caen los clavos]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964942 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 07:50:46 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964921 Link Logger :

said by Martinus

:

A NAT router won't alert you of outgoing connections

Mine do (cheap Linksys, Netgear and Zyxel routers/firewalls), they log all connections attempted or made for both inbound and outbound, but for picking up traffic like this I'd recommend a sniffer like WireShark or Packetyzer, then you can see the actual network traffic packet contents.

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964921 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 07:42:07 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964875 ABL : My point is this: WGA does not affect pirates of software, only legitimate users. Pirates are going to be smart enough to use other means to update their OS I would think. I was ok with it for downloads and updates, but something that constantly has to phone home to check if my version of Windows is legit. is over the top. I am not anti-MS, I've used Windows for years, but at what point does WGA become intrusive? It's there already.
--
My Boring Blog]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964875 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 07:27:59 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964866 Martinus :

said by DRM Fault :

A NAT router and Kaspersky is all anybody needs. :p

A NAT router won't alert you of outgoing connections, and KIS and KAV WKS Antihacker have wauclt.exe - Microsoft Windows Autoupdate -, along with a plethora of Microsoft services as Allow Outbound Stream by default, so unless you've been tinkering with Rules for Applications, you won't see a thing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964866 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 07:22:49 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964831 Martinus :

said by DRM Fault :

No te precupes. Soy un Cumiaberon. Todo de baile en los dos idiomas. Mas de la mitad era de baile, tus favoritas, Michael y tambien musica de los prietos. :( Solo que faultan en mi collecion era de los red nex, country music ! Que feo ! ;)

Creo que cogiste a Google translation en un mal día. La traducción es una auténtica cagada.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964831 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 07:04:46 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964824 Martinus :

said by AB

:

And what if the car I have chosen to rent is not equipped with GPS?
Does the rental company have the right to know what store I drove to to do my shopping, or where my friend lives that I visited in that car?

Just remember not to leave the pr0n rags under the driver's seat when you deliver the car back.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964824 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 07:01:38 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964800 Name Game : Next time you buy a car tell the
1. Manufacture
2. Dealer
3. Finance Company(if you go that route) ;)
4. Dealer Service Dept under Warranty
5. Your Local Auto Repair Guy
5. The place that changes your oil
6. Your Auto Insurance Carrier
7. Your State Auto Registration
8. Your Motor Vehicle Drivers License Office
9. Your Local Vehicle Property Tax Office
10 Your State Sales Tax Office

That it is none of their business what you drive or who you are because you want your privacy. That is something you do really own when you get the pink slip. Then when you sell it try convincing them all and the next guy who owns it
he does not need any info from you to buy it or the fact it was sold.

Below are the only reason you will ever need "parts" from Microsoft after you "BUY" ~cough~ the OS. If WGA puts you off so much..drive without them or go find them on the open market or some junkyard.
*********************************
What are the advantages of Windows validation?
In addition to having the confidence that you are using a copy of Windows that is licensed and fully supported by Microsoft or a trusted partner, genuine Windows customers can take advantage of:

Free downloads from the Microsoft Download Center.
Free updates for Windows from Windows Update.
Special offers, including free downloads, special promotions, and discounts. For more information, see Windows Genuine Advantage Special Offers.
Will I be asked to provide personal information during validation?
Microsoft values your privacy, and we do not collect any information, such as your name or email address, that can be used to identify you or contact you.

For more information about the genuine Windows privacy policy, see the Privacy Statement.
--
Gladiator Security Forum »www.gladiator-antivirus.com/
Missing Kids
»www.missingkids.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964800 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 06:45:43 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964734 Link Logger :

said by AB

:

But here's what Microsoft owns up to WGA Notification collecting:
»www.microsoft.com/genuine/Facts.···ylang=en

As well as their assurances that any ongoing lawsuits will be found 'without merit'.
Gee, I'm getting all warm & fuzzy inside.

That list sounds to me a little like some stuff it's none of their business knowing.

There's plenty of other links. That's just one of the official ones.

While I have no problem with any of information that is sent from my computer during the WGA process, I'll salute you for at least looking for what information is being sent, as most of the people bitching about this have no idea and it could be nothing or everything but they would still bitch about it.

Come on people how hard do you think it is to slap a network sniffer on something and see what is being sent? Is it encrypted, what do you think and why do you think that and would you want it to be anyways? Microsoft isn't going to hide some secret information in here and if you think they are then your tin foil is way to tight and you need to learn how to use a sniffer (to check for all the secret information you computer is sending to everyone and the aliens from outer space).

Gosh if something bothers you that bad then perhaps people should spend a little time and effort finding out about it (yes I know its easier to be a mindless clone who bitches about what ever other uninformed person is bitching about, but try to break out of that mode and learn something and then you can bitch with some authority or you just might see it another way).

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964734 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 06:03:09 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964721 trickyrick :

said by John Galt

:

Rick, buddy. I suggest that you MOVE from the UK. I hate to be the one to break this to you, but YOUR GOVERNMENT is crawling up your ass. You live in THE surveillance society...even the Chinese wish they have surveillance like the British.

Microsoft is the LEAST of YOUR problems.

Microsoft are less of a problem for me as I use Linux more and more. And I'm fully aware of the 1984-type society that the UK is becoming, believe me. Which is why I'm fighting on several fronts, against ID Cards, Road Pricing and so on. Microsoft are just ONE problem, not the only one and definitely not the biggest threat, but nonetheless a serious threat and one that too few people are aware of.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964721 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 05:47:40 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964715 trickyrick :

said by lawrence171

:

I have yet to see a viable alternative to Microsoft Windows on the PC platform.

I use PCLinuxOS which works fine for me. Several other distributions of Linux also work well, so there's a real choice as far as I'm concerned. Admittedly it's not for everyone, but it's continually improving.

But why stick to the PC platform? Apple make a perfectly usable range of machines which, though admittedly more expensive, are user-friendly and pretty solid performers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964715 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 05:43:30 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964600 mers2 : GPS and logging may tell them where I've been, but it won't tell them everything I've been doing and even if the car is stopped at a location there is no way of logging if I went anywhere else without the car be it via walking or another vehicle.
--
Team Discovery
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964600 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 03:58:19 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964597 PeeWee :

said by mers2

:

But they can't tell each and every location you've been to and what activities you've been doing.

Yes they can. They can also tell how fast you were going, what time of day it was, duration of braking etc. prior to that accident you got into. That technology is built into all new cars.
--
Nemo me impune lacessit. [No one provokes me with impunity] -- Motto of the Crown of Scotland]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964597 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 03:51:18 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964520 Trel :

said by huntermcdole

:

Thus proving Godwin's Law.

As for MS doing something with out your consent, Remember you don't own the software your only licensing it. I would more compare it to a rental car, and I believe they can get in to your car if they have cause with out your consent.

Ah, but I never gave them permission to use my internet connection. Their software can do what it wants as long as it doesn't interfere with my hardware or my internet connection. I did not liscense either of those from MS.
--
/chown -R us:us /yourbase]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964520 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 02:46:36 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964190 AB :

said by DRM Fault :

said by AB

:

I like the Stones, a lot of New Wave-type stuff, Classical, all kinds of things-- no Michael Jackson or Hip-Hop though, please. Just my personal taste.

Odd that you'd be lacking country, as you keep claiming what a redneck you are.
I love reggae, soul, etc.-- just not hip-hop. That isn't "music", to my ears, so to speak.
Y cuando te digas "Michael "Y" la musica prieto"-- esto es correcto, hay que Michael Jackson no es un prieto-- la musica de el, o en el color de piel. ;)
I'm a dancin' fool, too. But that's the only kind.
Guess I'll have to make do with finding my own music.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964190 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 00:55:24 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964064 anon :

said by AB

:

I like the Stones, a lot of New Wave-type stuff, Classical, all kinds of things-- no Michael Jackson or Hip-Hop though, please. Just my personal taste.

No te precupes. Soy un Cumiaberon. Todo de baile en los dos idiomas. Mas de la mitad era de baile, tus favoritas, Michael y tambien musica de los prietos. :( Solo que faultan en mi collecion era de los red nex, country music ! Que feo ! ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17964064 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 00:22:24 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17963957 m0d : "The Windows Genuine Advantage
How can I tell if my copy of Windows is genuine?"

.. apart from the FAT HOLE in my wallet you mean???

It would have been rich indeed if they tried this on Win 3.1.. Maybe for MS-DOS 5?? You know the "stable" version?
»www.weirdstuff.com/cgi-bin/item/32030

I will sooner find an alternative than opt in to "invasion" thx.

Either more and more people accept the "Windows invasion not installed advantage" (WINIA) or .. well .. they change their "practices" .. its really is that simple.

You might say that you cant game/do hardcore office stuff .. but you know what? Most can do what they need to do and in time things improve.

So yes .. this is a "wake up call" and in the strongest terms possible.. aka FIRE whoever is responsible.

If you are not rich enough already/feel you are ripped off from your last OS.. WHY make a new one? Yes that is because .. well I will leave you all to think that over :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17963957 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 23:55:55 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17963822 BloodRoses : You do know there are microphones and cameras EVERYWHERE in most major U.S. cities right? There's probably at least 5 cameras that can see me just walking to my car outside.
--
Cheers,
Stephanie - www.GlitterFaerie.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17963822 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 23:28:15 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17963605 Name Game : If you pick your nose while driving down the road and decide not to roll down the window and flick it out..does you steering wheel get sticky ?

Anyone who even runs into the WGA is trying to get a proggie like windows defender..an update...or some other goodie from Microsoft. If you don't want to deal with the WGA don't even click on the button to have it start running..and even if you do that..don't then say no to the WGA..just close out your browser and click on your NEXT favorite link.

Also if you do a boo boo..I think CCleaner will still do the deed and you will not be punished.

»www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta···id=10134

The Windows Genuine Advantage
How can I tell if my copy of Windows is genuine?
To help you verify that you are using genuine Windows, Microsoft offers a quick and easy online process called validation.

Validation takes only a few moments, and enables Microsoft to create a match between your PC's hardware profile and your 25-character Product Key (located on the Certificate of Authenticity), which Microsoft stores and checks against future activation and validation attempts. We do this to ensure that your Product Key is not used by another person in a malicious manner, such as activating a counterfeit or non-genuine copy of Windows.

»www.microsoft.com/genuine/downlo···ylang=en

--
Gladiator Security Forum »www.gladiator-antivirus.com/
Missing Kids
»www.missingkids.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17963605 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 22:49:27 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17963304 AB :

said by DRM Fault :

. . I am equally amuzed that some folks take "Microsoft Spyware" seriously enough to try to create a linux partition on a blank hard drive, let alone trying to get it installed and working. . . .

Eh, I dunno. I've never tried. Didn't know it was that tough.
Got Ubuntu installed on my other machine, though. I'm slowly learning it.

My OSes have had nary a "security" patch, and nary a viral infection since around 1999.

I've got most of my patches, and haven't been infected in a long time either.
What that has to do with WGA, however (other than WGA being a more or less "voluntary" infection), I haven't a clue.

I have almost 2 TB of DRM Free MP3s and various videos. I stopped collecting things a year ago when I realized that I would never have time to listen to and watch it all.

Maybe you could upload some of it here?
I like the Stones, a lot of New Wave-type stuff, Classical, all kinds of things-- no Michael Jackson or Hip-Hop though, please. Just my personal taste.

A NAT router and Kaspersky is all anybody needs. :p

Eh, debatable. Though again, not much to do with the subject at hand.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17963304 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 22:03:35 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17963074 anon :

said by AB

:

How comical that a thief is constantly referring to the "FUD" of others, though.

I'm happy to have amuzed you. Conversely, I am equally amuzed that some folks take "Microsoft Spyware" seriously enough to try to create a linux partition on a blank hard drive, let alone trying to get it installed and working. You GO cowboys. You OWN yer computer stuff. My OSes have had nary a "security" patch, and nary a viral infection since around 1999. I have almost 2 TB of DRM Free MP3s and various videos. I stopped collecting things a year ago when I realized that I would never have time to listen to and watch it all. A NAT router and Kaspersky is all anybody needs. :p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17963074 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 21:28:32 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962864 John Galt :

said by Kiwi

:

Realizing that some of these anons are members, stirring a pot.

At BBR??!! Say it AIN'T so...!!

Sh-sh-shocking!

;)
--
A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962864 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 21:02:12 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962783 Kiwi :

said by Doctor Four

:

According to someone who posted this at Slashdot,

»yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/03/07/162203.shtml

I knew there was a good reason for my refusing the
download of this. It appears to send some kind of
unique ID to Microsoft.

Don't ya Love an Onion, peel one or two back! OOps, anon.

I would like to see these these folks, 'Annie-up'. Realizing that some of these anons are members, stirring a pot.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962783 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:50:53 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962625 AB :

said by DRM Fault :

With a forum full of security nerds, can anybody verify this claim to be true ? Any decent firewall or router will detect an out-going connection. My VLK special edition of XP Pro does not seem to be able to even download any patches, so I can't test it myself. With all the MS bashing and FUD going around these days, I'm a bit skeptical of the validity of claims using a single screen shot in a foreign language as evidence of a crime.

What do you care? You run a stolen OS, don't you? Or is that why you DO care?
I don't know. Beats me.
How comical that a thief is constantly referring to the "FUD" of others, though.

But here's what Microsoft owns up to WGA Notification collecting:
»www.microsoft.com/genuine/Facts.···ylang=en

As well as their assurances that any ongoing lawsuits will be found 'without merit'.
Gee, I'm getting all warm & fuzzy inside.

That list sounds to me a little like some stuff it's none of their business knowing.

There's plenty of other links. That's just one of the official ones.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962625 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:29:12 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962574 mers2 : Some will try to make those of us who disagree with MS's latest tactics as "MS bashers". While there are those who have bashed MS from almost day one, I've been with MS since Windows 3.0. So have many others who now object to the ever increasingly invasive, annoying, controlling and highly ineffective at anti-piracy tactics MS is using. We do have viable choices these days, unlike in the past. Some of us are choosing to cut ties with MS and giving the reason(s) why.
--
Team Discovery
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962574 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:20:13 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962492 OZO :

said by MarkAW

:

Ok where does it say in the EULA that Microsoft has the right to use said software or for that matter another software to spy on my use of said software.

I may not own the software as you say but i do own the system it is on and i can use it as i see fit as long as i don't violate my licences agreement with them which i haven't and i do own the right to refuse what they try to force me to download from them onto my system that will send my info back to them which is none of their business.

That's right. I owe the system. After I installed the OS (that m$ wants to say I do not owe it) it becomes MY system. Right after I modified it by typing my user name into it - it becomes MY personal system. That personalized system is NOT property of m$, even it its dreams. Any documents that I've created on that system is my property, as well as all installed programs on it... And nobody has right to check what I have in it or do with it without a properly written warrant. Why it's so difficult to comprehend for some folks supporting the new business model pushed by m$? I do not know.

Again, it's MY computer and I will run whatever I want to on it, even the bundle with the name "Window XP". If I want - I modify it as I need (and I do every day, since its installation). In short - I've bought it, I owe it, I may sell it, I may trash it...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962492 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:07:28 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962488 La Luna :

Been watching this thread, wondering how long it would take for someone would bring up this very thing. I'd like to see some credible proof of this myself, and what I've seen on that website (and the one in very badly translated German) aren't it.
--
~~Well, I think you're crazy, I think you're crazy, I think you're crazy, just like me...~~

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962488 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:06:14 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962448 Kiwi :

said by John Galt

said by trickyrick

:

They may not learn from their mistakes, but I sure do.

Rick, buddy. I suggest that you MOVE from the UK. I hate to be the one to break this to you, but YOUR GOVERNMENT is crawling up your ass. You live in THE surveillance society...even the Chinese wish they have surveillance like the British.

Microsoft is the LEAST of YOUR problems.

Yes, those cameras (and everything else) is watching YOU.

»www.conservativeliberty.org.uk/i···temid=33

»www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/···ame=true

»www.unc.edu/~jmspille/187/assign2_book.html

Lol, coming to a city near you, very soon! In the USA.

Now one wonders..WHO prospers!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962448 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:59:00 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962442 fatness : Following that slashdot link to the original source, it's a German article. Here is the Google translation: »www.google.com/translate?u=http%···&ie=UTF8

Source article: »www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/85884
--
Sure, that'll work..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962442 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:58:37 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962429 anon : With a forum full of security nerds, can anybody verify this claim to be true ? Any decent firewall or router will detect an out-going connection. My VLK special edition of XP Pro does not seem to be able to even download any patches, so I can't test it myself. With all the MS bashing and FUD going around these days, I'm a bit skeptical of the validity of claims using a single screen shot in a foreign language as evidence of a crime.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962429 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:56:15 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962408 John Galt :

said by trickyrick

:

They may not learn from their mistakes, but I sure do.

said by huntermcdole

Ok where does it say in the EULA that Microsoft has the right to use said software or for that matter another software to spy on my use of said software.

I may not own the software as you say but i do own the system it is on and i can use it as i see fit as long as i don't violate my licences agreement with them which i haven't and i do own the right to refuse what they try to force me to download from them onto my system that will send my info back to them which is none of their business.
--
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell 'em, "Certainly I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. - Theodore Roosevelt (1859-1919)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962312 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:41:09 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962265 ABL : I didn't need the EULA dragged out sir, I know it well . :hmm:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962265 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:33:52 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962174 AB :

said by Youngjm

:

Rental car companies can tell if you are speeding by using the GPS and/or navigation systems.

And what if the car I have chosen to rent is not equipped with GPS?
Does the rental company have the right to know what store I drove to to do my shopping, or where my friend lives that I visited in that car?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962174 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:17:59 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962143 mers2 :

said by Youngjm

said by AB

said by huntermcdole

:

. . you don't own the software your only licensing it. I would more compare it to a rental car, and I believe they can get in to your car if they have cause with out your consent.

That's right, I don't own the XP software.
When I rent a television, does the company I rent it from have the right to come into my home to see what program I'm watching on it?

Rental car companies can tell if you are speeding by using the GPS and/or navigation systems.

But they can't tell each and every location you've been to and what activities you've been doing.
--
Team Discovery
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962143 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:09:32 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962139 mers2 :

said by huntermcdole

They own the OS, but they don't own the hardware or any other software on my box. If they care to buy me a computer complete with all of the necessary software they can than have access to everything I have on it. Until than they can stuff it. I'm already dual booting into Linux and it appears it will be 100% Linux in the near future. If I choose not to install a MS product thus declining the terms of that product it darn well better not phone home with my information anyway. I haven't installed the current WGA crap. I have other means of getting updates and I couldn't care less about their extra goodies.
--
Team Discovery
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962139 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:08:26 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962136 Youngjm :

said by AB

said by huntermcdole

:

. . you don't own the software your only licensing it. I would more compare it to a rental car, and I believe they can get in to your car if they have cause with out your consent.

That's right, I don't own the XP software.
When I rent a television, does the company I rent it from have the right to come into my home to see what program I'm watching on it?

Rental car companies can tell if you are speeding by using the GPS and/or navigation systems.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962136 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:08:03 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962122 AB :

said by huntermcdole

:

. . you don't own the software your only licensing it. I would more compare it to a rental car, and I believe they can get in to your car if they have cause with out your consent.

That's right, I don't own the XP software.
When I rent a television, does the company I rent it from have the right to come into my home to see what program I'm watching on it?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962122 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:05:26 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962086 salterbomb : this scares me so much i'm stopping my computer usage immediately!

phone's and regular mail is the way to go. the government or any organization will never spy on me ever again.

ever.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962086 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 18:58:42 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962077 lawrence171 :

said by trickyrick

:

So it's still spyware. What a surprise, that they didn't learn from their first mistake with WGAN six months ago.

For how long can any company treat their customers like crap and stay in business? I hope they get what they deserve.

And up 'til a couple of years ago I was pro-Microsoft too. Not any more. They may not learn from their mistakes, but I sure do.

I have yet to see a viable alternative to Microsoft Windows on the PC platform.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17962077 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 18:56:52 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17961835 huntermcdole : Thus proving Godwin's Law.

As for MS doing something with out your consent, Remember you don't own the software your only licensing it. I would more compare it to a rental car, and I believe they can get in to your car if they have cause with out your consent.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17961835 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 18:14:00 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17961531 ABL :

said by OZO

:

Why would one care, unless he hides something illegal on his computer? Right? ;)

If a band of Nazis harass you, its ok if you don't have anything to hide?
--
My Boring Blog]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17961531 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 17:24:19 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17961509 OZO : Why would one care, unless he hides something illegal on his computer? Right? ;)
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17961509 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 17:19:31 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17961474 Sr Tech : Ordered the Mini Imac for wife, went linux here...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17961474 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 17:12:55 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17961270 MarkAW : This is why i am so glad this is happening »Vista, IE7, Office 2007 Banned by US DOT & FAA.
The money that Microsoft will be losing because of this may wake them up and they will start to listen to the consumers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17961270 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 16:39:51 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17961190 Sentinel :

said by MikeStammer

:

zzz, all this getting quite old.

i am sure its for nefarious purposes. They are probably trying to steal ur credit kard info

if you are a legit user, why does it matter?!

I will try to make this simple. What if you woke up and found someone sleeping in your car? He is not there for nefarious purposes, he was just tired. Is that wrong? Of course it is. You paid for your car and you have the right to allow or deny whomever you choose entry in to it.

Similarly I paid for my OS and my PC. Therefore I alone have the right to allow or deny what can be done with it. That is my view. Of course as long as I am not violating MS's copyright or ability to make a profit.

trickyrick,
How long can a company do this? Look at the post above yours. A company can do this as long as they have customers like these that allow them to. As long as people line up begging to be bent over by MS then MS will continue to treat people that way. Only when the money dries up would they even begin to consider changing their business model.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17961190 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 16:26:43 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17961044 trickyrick : So it's still spyware. What a surprise, that they didn't learn from their first mistake with WGAN six months ago.

For how long can any company treat their customers like crap and stay in business? I hope they get what they deserve.

And up 'til a couple of years ago I was pro-Microsoft too. Not any more. They may not learn from their mistakes, but I sure do.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17961044 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 15:59:07 EDT Re: Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17961024 MikeStammer : zzz, all this getting quite old.

i am sure its for nefarious purposes. They are probably trying to steal ur credit kard info

if you are a legit user, why does it matter?!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17961024 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 15:56:13 EDT Microsoft WGA phones home even when told not to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17960994 Doctor Four : According to someone who posted this at Slashdot,

»yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/03/07/162203.shtml

I knew there was a good reason for my refusing the
download of this. It appears to send some kind of
unique ID to Microsoft.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17960994 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 15:51:45 EDT