 dolphinsClean Up Our OceansPremium
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Westville, NJ
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1 edit | reply to DataDoc
Re: [video] Expanding Earth Theory Had to open with IE. Firefox won't open it for me.
Back to the theory; when you apply Occam's Razor, it has to be true.
Edit: Occam's Razor simplified: "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one."
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 haamsterPremium
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Monroe Township, NJ
4 edits | said by dolphins:Had to open with IE. Firefox won't open it for me. Back to the theory; when you apply Occam's Razor, it has to be true. Edit: Occam's Razor simplified: "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one." How is this the simplest solution? Where is all this volume that the earth is gaining come from? And the oceans? And if all land is expanding, why are there mountains?
Plus, in order to support this claim, the proponents say the earth is not only gaining volume, but mass. And not only is it gaining mass, but it is creating it out of nothing. From the inside (since it's causing the plates to spread out). At the rate of 3,108 cubic miles a year.
This seems like it should be way down on the simplest solution scale. |
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dolphinsClean Up Our OceansPremium
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1 edit | said by haamster:said by dolphins:Had to open with IE. Firefox won't open it for me. Back to the theory; when you apply Occam's Razor, it has to be true. Edit: Occam's Razor simplified: "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one." How is this the simplest solution? Where is all this volume that the earth is gaining come from? And the oceans? And if all land is expanding, why are there mountains? Plus, in order to support this claim, the proponents say the earth is not only gaining volume, but mass. And not only is it gaining mass, but it is creating it out of nothing. From the inside (since it's causing the plates to spread out). At the rate of 3,108 cubic miles a year. This seems like it should be way down on the simplest solution scale.
A snapshot if you will, before you edit your original post again. I will try to answer your questions with the best of my knowledge after I have slept a few hours.
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| to say that the water was 'inside' the earth and expelled by volcanoes means that you must put physics aside and believe that water is compressible.
the theory is bullshit
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haamsterPremium
join:2002-12-02
Monroe Township, NJ | reply to dolphins
Snapshot away.
It was edited for math since it seems quite difficult to find a concensus on the surface area and average diameter of the earth.
Looking at my post again, I could edit it for a particularly blatant grammatical error, but I'll leave it since it would distress you so. |
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 marcoPremium
join:2001-09-14 | reply to cbabbman
said by cbabbman:to say that the water was 'inside' the earth and expelled by volcanoes means that you must put physics aside and believe that water is compressible. the theory is bullshit no, theyre saying earth only had shallow sees, and as the continents drifted apart, it left more room for the water to accumulate, and hence turn into oceans.
Cool video, thanks for the link.
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dolphinsClean Up Our OceansPremium
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| reply to haamster
said by haamster:Snapshot away. It was edited for math since it seems quite difficult to find a concensus on the surface area and average diameter of the earth. Looking at my post again, I could edit it for a particularly blatant grammatical error, but I'll leave it since it would distress you so. Please ignore that post. I have some time off and had a few drinks last night. I get a little smug sometimes when drinking.
Sorry.
Now back to the topic. Uhh...Too much to think about right now so I'll be back.
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 SlyPremium
join:2004-02-20
Johnson City, TN
 ·Callcentric
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said by cbabbman:to say that the water was 'inside' the earth and expelled by volcanoes means that you must put physics aside and believe that water is compressible. the theory is bullshit Volcanoes expel water all the time. Perhaps you should do some further reading. It has nothing to do with water being compressed in liquid form under the Earth... Water comes in more forms than just liquid you know. One of which is in its elemental form of pre-combined hydrogen and oxygen.
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SlyPremium
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said by haamster:Plus, in order to support this claim, the proponents say the earth is not only gaining volume, but mass. Do they? Where did you read that people believe the Earth is gaining mass? Volume? Possibly. Mass? No.
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 DataDocMy avatar looks like me, if I was 2D.Premium
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Greenville, NC
·Suddenlink
| said by Sly:said by haamster:Plus, in order to support this claim, the proponents say the earth is not only gaining volume, but mass. Do they? Where did you read that people believe the Earth is gaining mass? Volume? Possibly. Mass? No. Yes, they do:
»www.expanding-earth.org/page_10.htm
This site has a pretty complete description of the theory.
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dolphinsClean Up Our OceansPremium
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| reply to haamster
said by haamster:How is this the simplest solution? Where is all this volume that the earth is gaining come from? And the oceans? And if all land is expanding, why are there mountains? Plus, in order to support this claim, the proponents say the earth is not only gaining volume, but mass. And not only is it gaining mass, but it is creating it out of nothing. From the inside (since it's causing the plates to spread out). At the rate of 3,108 cubic miles a year. Ok, we already discussed where the water came from so lets move on to where the mass is coming from. The earth does create mass from nothing through photosynthesis. Plants, animals, people accumulate mass, yet come from nothing. Magma secretions, meteors, space dust all create mass. As for the rate and volume at which these things happen, I have no idea.
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SlyPremium
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| I'm not too sure about that. Volcanic eruptions are not "mass being created". Instead they are mass being re-distributed. The mass was already there but instead of being within the Earth, it is on the outside of it. The system does not gain any more matter... it only redistributes what it already has. People gain mass but they consume food which reduces mass. Again, it's just a redistribution. Plants grow due to photosynthesis but the energy they get from the sun is just that... energy. It is the mineral content and water they absorb which make up the structure of the plant. The energy from the sun does not make any more matter... it just redistributes it from the ground to the plant. Once the plant dies, the matter goes back to the ground and so the net mass of the system does not change.
I can not see how the Earth would be gaining mass. Volume, yes. Mass? I don't see it. It is easy to see that the volume of an object can change. All you have to do is decrease the density. Same mass, bigger volume= lower density. Erupted magma has a lower density than does it's liquid counterpart. Therefore I would expect the size to increase due to an eruption. Pumice rock is a good example of a low density, yet large object. However if you compress that matter down to granite, you still end up with the same mass; just in a smaller size.
I am open to ideas about how the Earth could be gaining mass, but I personally don't think that is happening on any significant scale (accounting for small amounts of space dust that get caught in the atmosphere).
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| said by Sly:I personally don't think that is happening on any significant scale (accounting for small amounts of space dust that get caught in the atmosphere). Page 10 link from above. |
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dolphinsClean Up Our OceansPremium
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said by Sly:I'm not too sure about that. Volcanic eruptions are not "mass being created". Instead they are mass being re-distributed. The mass was already there but instead of being within the Earth, it is on the outside of it. The system does not gain any more matter... it only redistributes what it already has. If that's true, then what fills the void where the magma has been displaced?
said by user=Sly :
People gain mass but they consume food which reduces mass. Again, it's just a redistribution. Plants grow due to photosynthesis but the energy they get from the sun is just that... energy. It is the mineral content and water they absorb which make up the structure of the plant. The energy from the sun does not make any more matter... it just redistributes it from the ground to the plant. Once the plant dies, the matter goes back to the ground and so the net mass of the system does not change. Yes, when all these things go back into the ground, they are creating layers of matter which has mass.
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haamsterPremium
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Monroe Township, NJ | reply to dolphins
said by dolphins:Ok, we already discussed where the water came from so lets move on to where the mass is coming from. The earth does create mass from nothing through photosynthesis. Plants, animals, people accumulate mass, yet come from nothing. Magma secretions, meteors, space dust all create mass. As for the rate and volume at which these things happen, I have no idea. Magma secretions do not create mass. The mass was already in the earth and is now leaking to the surface.
Meteors and dust fall on the surface and would not cause the earth to balloon from the inside out causing the plates to shift. If there was enough stuff coming from space to double the diameter of the earth in 200 million years, it would just have buried everything almost 2,000 miles deep of meteors and dust. And geology shows that that didn't happen.
Photosynthesis does not create mass from nothing. It doesn't create mass at all:
6 CO2(gas) + 12 H2O(liquid) + photons → C6H12O6(aqueous) + 6 O2(gas) + 6 H2O(liquid)
All the light does is provide energy to do the work of turning CO2 and water into glucose and oxygen. You are left with the same mass that you started with.
I'm not sure what you're talking about when you say animals and plants and people create mass from nothing. That's absurd.
And I don't think it's a matter of where the water for the oceans came from, but when.
The question that I have specifically pertaining to this half-assed theory is if 200 million years ago all we had were shallow seas, and this earth expansion explains how the shallow seas became the vast oceans, then the water must have arrived between then and now, or else the Earth would have been covered with 8 mile deep oceans. Where is the geological evidence of the water's sudden arrival? 200 million years is a blink of an eye in geological terms. The Earth already had complex life roaming on the surface. Certainly it could not have been easy to hide 326 million cubic miles of water, especially in an earth that A) already had massive dinosaurs (and thus could not have had stronger gravity than today), b) was supposedly half the diameter of the current planet, and c) shows no cataclysmic event such as "the great water pitcher in the sky" in the geological record to support the ocean's sudden arrival. In fact the evidence points to the oceans being formed over 3 and a half billion years ago from the escaping gasses of the earth as it cooled from its original molten state over the course of a billion years.
Thus if the earth was this small 200 million years ago, those dinosaurs must have been good swimmers. The Earth truly would have been a water world with the floor of this one big earth covering ocean 8 miles down (or only 3 miles down if you happen to be floating over Mount Everest, which couldn't exist since it resulted from the Indian Subcontinent slamming into Asia proper, which wouldn't happen if all of the continents were being pulled apart by the expanding Earth. If you don't believe me, paste a bunch of construction paper pieces to cover a partially inflated balloon. Blow more air into the balloon. None of the papers will get closer to each other). |
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dolphinsClean Up Our OceansPremium
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| What I mean is, photosynthesis was necessary for the plants to grow and accumulate mass. Which then enabled animals and then people to grow and accumulate mass who then procreate creating more mass.
Are you telling me all this mass just disappears?
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haamsterPremium
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Monroe Township, NJ | No. But neither does it just appear. Plants and animals get their mass from the earth, then their mass goes back to the earth when they die. Nothing changes. |
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1 edit | said by haamster:No. But neither does it just appear. Plants and animals get their mass from the earth, then their mass goes back to the earth when they die. Nothing changes. You sir are correct. |
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 NightwingThis is it boys,this is warPremium
join:2002-04-08
CT | reply to haamster
said by haamster:No. But neither does it just appear. Plants and animals get their mass from the earth, then their mass goes back to the earth when they die. Nothing changes. Isn't that called something like the conservation of matter law? |
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 shanerPremium
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB
1 edit | reply to dolphins
said by dolphins:said by Sly:I'm not too sure about that. Volcanic eruptions are not "mass being created". Instead they are mass being re-distributed. The mass was already there but instead of being within the Earth, it is on the outside of it. The system does not gain any more matter... it only redistributes what it already has. If that's true, then what fills the void where the magma has been displaced? More magma?
I don't know why, but when I read your question I immediately thought "Why does my nose fill up with snot right after I blow it?"
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