batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs: | Get the *F* out of the way. This is why US has fallen from 1st to 16th in communication, political hogs slopping at the trough. NJ has a state wise franchise law and FIOS is being run to all civilized parts of the state. | |
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 nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
 ·Comcast
| Re: Get the *F* out of the way. don't blame local municipalities for the U.S. broadband market sucking so much - blame the telcos that sat on their @sses for so long with regard to rolling out advanced services.
they wasted their time with forcing the CLECs out of business and lobbying congress and the FCC for looser regulation. These franchises that the telcos want don't include any buildout requirements and even if they do, don't have time frames. Would you be happy if the area up the road had telco video, but you didn't because they didn't think your area was worth it? | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Get the *F* out of the way. said by nasadude  :don't blame local municipalities for the U.S. broadband market sucking so much - blame the telcos that sat on their @sses for so long with regard to rolling out advanced services. This is not Ma Bell, this is the new at&t. The new at&t has to make money, as much money as possible. If that means sitting on their ass until they get what makes good business sense that is what they will do. 1st to 16th is the price, Ma Bell is dead and yet the people bitch. | |
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| | Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO | Re: Get the *F* out of the way. Come out from under that rock and get reintroduced to the world. It appears to be evolving without you. | |
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annnonyg
| Don't forget about the Company that brings you FiOS TV While all of you praise FiOS, don't forget who is bringing it to you. The same company that has:
•Short ringtones at $1.99 / year when the full song is .99 on iTunes
•2 Year contract lock up on cell phone renewals
•Cell phone usage reporting that is impossible to decipher
•Locked phones that will not allow 3rd party services or customer downloadable apps
Allowing them to take TV franchises without any checks and balances will bring the same business practices. Forget the schools, rural areas, municipal channels, etc. | |
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cbrigante2
Cubs 20??
Premium
join:2002-11-22
North Aurora, IL | I kind of wish they would "sit on their ass" but they seem too busy taking their ass to the courts to sue communities that want to impose any type of regulation on a roll out. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| said by batterup :This is not Ma Bell, this is the new at&t...Ma Bell is dead Huh? Ma Bell is very much alive. This video will help explain it (presuming Google doesn't take it down quickly).
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Go Colts | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by nasadude :don't blame local municipalities for the U.S. broadband market sucking so much - blame the telcos that sat on their @sses for so long with regard to rolling out advanced services. When any broadband provider wants to offer service but some municipal government puts up unneeded roadblocks to said deployment, then how is it wrong to blame the government? The telcos are hardly sitting on their butts here as they want to deploy this service.
said by nasadude :Would you be happy if the area up the road had telco video, but you didn't because they didn't think your area was worth it? Why is it OK to compel any business to serve an unprofitable market?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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dg2
Premium
join:2004-01-22
Lowell, AR
·Cox HSI
| Re: Get the *F* out of the way. said by pnh102 :Why is it OK to compel any business to serve an unprofitable market? Isn't that what the USF is for? UNIVERSAL service fund means we all pay extra (and we've certainly been doing that) so the telco can afford to serve "unprofitable" markets.
Here, we got the double-whammy - paying into USF for 17 years, no DSL available (2000 feet too far from CO - no explanation as to why the Stinger box at the end of the street can't be turned on.) | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Get the *F* out of the way. said by dg2 :said by pnh102 :Why is it OK to compel any business to serve an unprofitable market? Isn't that what the USF is for? UNIVERSAL service fund means we all pay extra (and we've certainly been doing that) so the telco can afford to serve "unprofitable" markets. From the looks of this map
»www.universalservice.org/hc/tool···ell.html
most people in Arkansas are served by independent phone companies. In all Verizon areas of NJ we get ZERO USF and pay into it big time. My county pays more then your whole state and you want more? | |
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dg2
Premium
join:2004-01-22
Lowell, AR
·Cox HSI
| What's the USF for? No. I'd like to see the USF disbanded entirely. That way no one would have to pay for someone else's phone service. Pnh102's question was "Why is it OK to compel any business to serve an unprofitable market?" My response would be "Because Congress created the USF whereby all telephone subscribers pay the ILECs to serve the unprofitable markets." I was trying to be polite.
For the record, there are large areas of Arkansas served by SBC (ATT now). While it may be true that most of the state's land area is served by independent phone companies, most of the people live in a handful of cities which are inside the green and yellow areas on your map.
I live in one of the green boxes. And there's still been a Stinger box operating at the end of the street for 2 years now. No investment would appear to be required - simply a willingness to offer service. | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: What's the USF for? said by dg2 :I live in one of the green boxes. And there's still been a Stinger box operating at the end of the street for 2 years now. No investment would appear to be required - simply a willingness to offer service. What is the franchise law for CATV? NJ just passed a state wide law and FIOS deploment is improving. | |
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dg2
Premium
join:2004-01-22
Lowell, AR
·Cox HSI
| Re: What's the USF for? According to our municipal folks, CATV is regulated by the Feds only. They already charge a franchise fee for utilities operating within the city limits (CATV and telco both).
I really don't know what the state's franchise laws for CATV are. I probably should, but the laws don't really seem to matter in this discussion - all the companies are pretty much doing whatever they want, and no one seems inclined to regulate them to any great extent.
And, to answer your next post, I oppose the USF on principal. I'd like to think I'd feel the same if I got some benefit from it. Smells like communism at first whiff - then when you find out it's largely unregulated (there do not seem to be any real expectations for the telcos to actually spend this money on services), it sounds like Congress handed the telcos a windfall from the consumers' pockets. | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: What's the USF for? said by dg2 :According to our municipal folks, CATV is regulated by the Feds only. They already charge a franchise fee for utilities operating within the city limits (CATV and telco both). Whoever you talked to gave you incorrect information. CATV is controlled no higher then State level at this time and mostly at the municipal level. Telephone is not subject to franchise fees.
Telephone is over 100 years old and they were the only show in town so a franchise was not necessary. They are covered by a tariff and it is at the state and federal level. TPC is the provider of last resort mandated by federal law. They have to bring POTS to anybody anywhere in there tariff area.
quote:
The Arkansas Public Service Commission regulates telecommunications service providers that include incumbent local telephone carriers, competitive local telephone carriers, long distance companies, and private pay telephone companies. The Commission has authority to regulate the quality of service of all telecommunications providers but has limited authority to regulate rates, terms, and conditions of services. The limitations are in accordance with Arkansas Code Annotated Section 23-17-400 et seq. that recognizes the desire to have competitive forces control rates, terms, and conditions of services.
»www.arkansas.gov/psc/telecom.htm | |
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| | bigjimc
join:2003-04-21
Middleboro, MA
| Why is it OK to compel any business to serve an unprofitable market?
Well I will say it. It is my town. It is my roads. I pay taxes and if you want to put anything in my right of way then you have to live by my rules. If you don't like. Leave.
If any company would like a statewide franchise, go for it. But you have to provide service to 95% of the residents in every city/town in the state within three years. Don't like those rules. Leave. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Get the *F* out of the way. said by bigjimc :It is my town. It is my roads. I pay taxes and if you want to put anything in my right of way then you have to live by my rules. If you don't like. Leave. And if a business sets up shop in your town they pay taxes and such as well. They have just as much a say in how the town is run as you do.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| | | | bigjimc
join:2003-04-21
Middleboro, MA | Re: Get the *F* out of the way. No they don't.
Unless the owners are residents of the community, they have absolutely no say. If they don't like it, leave.
I will rephrase and say I am a voting, residential taxpayer in my town. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Get the *F* out of the way. said by bigjimc :No they don't. Unless the owners are residents of the community, they have absolutely no say. If they don't like it, leave. I will rephrase and say I am a voting, residential taxpayer in my town. And you go right ahead and tell these companies that when you don't get the latest and greatest broadband/video/phone offerings.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| | | | | | bigjimc
join:2003-04-21
Middleboro, MA
| Re: Get the *F* out of the way. I'm not complaining.
I am just saying. We own the land. There are a few state owned roads but not the last measured mile. I live in a rural part of a rural town and Verizon wired us for FIOS already. I want their TV service and all, I just want to make sure they pay the same as Comcast to do business in our town.
As far as their $39+ phone service...Pulease. This should be a $20 service no more plus its not always on...as their new commercials say. When the power goes out, so does your phone (after 4 or 5 hours).
I got into a beef with Verizon about my POTs line. I was loosing 48 volts across my line. They had to find me a new line all the way back to the switch (23,000 feet). It took three techs four days. No wonder they have been begging me to take fios on. | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by bigjimc :No they don't. Unless the owners are residents of the community, they have absolutely no say. If they don't like it, leave. Do you think so? Be careful of what you wish for, you might get it.
quote:
Utility lawyers began the battle yesterday over the $2.7 billion Verizon sale with a laundry list of questions about whether the small North Carolina company vying to buy Verizon's telephone service in Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont can handle running it.
»www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs···02280317 | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by bigjimc :Why is it OK to compel any business to serve an unprofitable market? Well I will say it. It is my town. It is my roads. I pay taxes and if you want to put anything in my right of way then you have to live by my rules. If you don't like. Leave. Leave; Like Verizon did in Hawaii and will do in Vermont, Maine and New Hampshire? Do you think the right of way is free? They are not, tax is paid on every pole and attachment. I would check with your neighbors before you disconnect their telephone. You have been reading TeleTruth again haven't you?
Did you see my pictures of the fiber cable Verizon is placing in Netcong? It is sweet. | |
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| | | | bigjimc
join:2003-04-21
Middleboro, MA
| Re: Get the *F* out of the way. I am not bashing Verizon. I welcome them to the town. I just want them to pay their fair share. Put up what Comcast does. Nothing more and nothing less.
I am not touching the copper lines for phone either. So I am not "disconnecting" anyone. | |
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VegasMan
Are We There Yet?
join:2002-11-17
Schaumburg, IL
·AT&T Midwest
1 edit | Re: Get the *F* out of the way. I am not bashing Verizon. I welcome them to the town. I just want them to pay their fair share. Put up what Comcast does. Nothing more and nothing less. Comcast doesn't put up anything. The customer does. All the fees that are imposed by the franchise fees are passed along in your bill.
If there is even a slim possibility of my rates being lower because my provider doesn't have to pay a franchise fee then I'm all for it.
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In need of a Vegas vacation. | |
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| | | | | | bigjimc
join:2003-04-21
Middleboro, MA | Re: Get the *F* out of the way. You are right. And Verizon should do the same. Equal ground. They are going to charge the same rates over time so they should kick back to the community as Comcast does. | |
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| | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| said by pnh102 :service. Why is it OK to compel any business to serve an unprofitable market? so in your view, there should only be competition for a few? The telcos loudly tout they need these franchises (or relief from franchises) for "competition" and to "have a level playing field". However, the cablecos are required to serve the whole franchise area, not just those areas they consider most profitable; the telcos shouldn't be held to the same requirement?
or are you saying there should be no requirements on anyone, that anyone can use public rights of way without any bounds or regulation?
sounds like you believe if we completely unfetter the telcos, the U.S. will rocket right back up to #1 status in the world for broadband. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Get the *F* out of the way. said by nasadude :said by pnh102 :service. Why is it OK to compel any business to serve an unprofitable market? so in your view, there should only be competition for a few? What does that have to do with my question?
said by nasadude : The telcos loudly tout they need these franchises (or relief from franchises) for "competition" and to "have a level playing field". However, the cablecos are required to serve the whole franchise area, not just those areas they consider most profitable; the telcos shouldn't be held to the same requirement? No. Just because the cable companies (which, by the way, do not serve many rural areas at all) bent over towards the government doesn't mean the phone companies should be compelled to do the same. But as it stands now, the residents of areas whose local governments putting up these silly obstacles now have zero access to any of these advanced services. If anything, these governments should do everything feasible to encourage these companies to deploy so that there is even more of an incentive to move into or do business in the town.
said by nasadude :or are you saying there should be no requirements on anyone, that anyone can use public rights of way without any bounds or regulation? sounds like you believe if we completely unfetter the telcos, the U.S. will rocket right back up to #1 status in the world for broadband. I only say what I have said.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| said by pnh102 :said by nasadude :don't blame local municipalities for the U.S. broadband market sucking so much - blame the telcos that sat on their @sses for so long with regard to rolling out advanced services. When any broadband provider wants to offer service but some municipal government puts up unneeded roadblocks to said deployment, then how is it wrong to blame the government? The telcos are hardly sitting on their butts here as they want to deploy this service. There are zero roadblocks to providing broadband service.
The roadblocks are to providing television service.
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ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Get the *F* out of the way. said by marigolds :There are zero roadblocks to providing broadband service. The roadblocks are to providing television service. Who is to say that the same governments making a hissy-fit about television service wouldn't be making the same hissy-fits about broadband, if they could get away with it?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Get the *F* out of the way. said by pnh102 :said by marigolds :There are zero roadblocks to providing broadband service. The roadblocks are to providing television service. Who is to say that the same governments making a hissy-fit about television service wouldn't be making the same hissy-fits about broadband, if they could get away with it? They cannot get away with it though.
Local regulation of broadband services is already a resolved issue.
So that argument is purely hypothetical about a situation that cannot happen unless the law swings back the other way. The current legal situation does give local governments the authority to require a franchise to offer video service, but not broadband service.
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ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Get the *F* out of the way. said by marigolds :Local regulation of broadband services is already a resolved issue. Any local government which impedes the delivery of any advanced information service, be it cable, broadband or phone, should be stripped of its authority to regulate said service, as they are standing between their citizens and access to these services.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Get the *F* out of the way. said by pnh102 :Any local government which impedes the delivery of any advanced information service, be it cable, broadband or phone, should be stripped of its authority to regulate said service, as they are standing between their citizens and access to these services. That's nonsense.
So you are saying if Comcast comes in and say, "We need to construct a 40 story office building on an environmentally sensitive area in order to provide advanced information services and we need budgetary authority over 10% of city revenues" and the city says, "No, that violates multiple zoning laws and we decide the budget for our citizens" then the city should be stripped of their power to zone and levy taxes just because it Comcast says it impedes the deployment of advanced information services?
Completely ridiculous.
AT&T does not need IPTV in order to deploy advanced information services. They just want IPTV to make money and it is irrelevant to AT&T's technical ability to deploy advanced information services beyond its relevance to the profit AT&T makes from building out.
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ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Get the *F* out of the way. Please. You are comparing apples to oranges. There is a huge difference between the government dealing with zoning changes and the government putting up inane roadblocks to advanced information services development.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Get the *F* out of the way. So you think the roadblock of a franchise is a more significant roadblock than zoning laws?
Have you ever been through a rezoning process? Takes a lot longer than a franchise negotiation.
And you have yet to demonstrate at all how requiring a franchise for IPTV has any affect whatsoever on advanced information services. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Get the *F* out of the way. said by marigolds :So you think the roadblock of a franchise is a more significant roadblock than zoning laws? Again, the comparison of local governments impeding information service deployment to local governments regulating zoning is irrelevant.
said by marigolds :And you have yet to demonstrate at all how requiring a franchise for IPTV has any affect whatsoever on advanced information services. The residents in these towns have been denied access to these services because the local government is standing in the way of them being deployed. I would call that a pretty significant effect.
I know that if my town's government was wasting even one minute of the peoples' time or once cent of the peoples' money on these sorts of shenanigans, while at the same time standing in the way of the people being able to get these services, I would be pretty angry.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Get the *F* out of the way. said by pnh102 :said by marigolds :And you have yet to demonstrate at all how requiring a franchise for IPTV has any affect whatsoever on advanced information services. The residents in these towns have been denied access to these services because the local government is standing in the way of them being deployed. I would call that a pretty significant effect. No, they have been denied access because the company is refusing to provide broadband service unless they are also granted the kickback of free reign to provide video service without a franchise.
At no point has the city said that the deploying company cannot deploy broadband services. The block has been against unrelated video services.
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ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
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Geographic Information Science researcher | |
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| | | | | | krayzie bone
join:2006-09-03
Marietta, GA
| Why? because maybe the local government is actually representing its local citizens and their wishes first over the greedy telco? What you are saying is such a blanket/generalizing statement it's ridiculous that anyone would think that. Let's give the telcos carte blanche wherever they want to deploy service because they have all of our best interests in mind... | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Get the *F* out of the way. said by krayzie bone :Why? because maybe the local government is actually representing its local citizens and their wishes first over the greedy telco? What kind of local government thinks that not having more than one broadband/TV provider is a good thing?
What is wrong with a telco being greedy? It is a private business. Its job is to make money.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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verolom
join:2002-03-23
Eagleville, PA
·Comcast
| Not all, my dear, not all at all. It is not being run yet to multi-dwelling communities such as town homes and condos or high-rise buildings on the shore. Some of those are quite "civilized" if you consider their value/property taxes.
Point is well taken though. Enough milking is enough. I want my true broadband (10+ Mbps symmetric) and anything that hinders it is evil. | |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| said by batterup :This is why US has fallen from 1st to 16th in communication, political hogs slopping at the trough. No... America fell to 16th because of poor management and a focus on short term profitability instead of long term investment. Only now have the telcos started to commit capital to long term investment and capital improvement.
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