major marco
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2 edits | reply to pnh102
Re: Gasping For Money
said by pnh102  :The sad part of this is that they are not committing an end run around due process of law. So you believe that it is entirely legal for entity C to harass and/or threaten to serve a lawsuit upon A in order to get information from A regarding B?
Irrespective of either criminal or civil law, it doesn't work that way. Entity C has to first serve a subpoena on A for those records on entity B. That's called due process of law, and, in this particular matter, since money is involved that entity C is calling a "settlement," entity A is entirely within its right to deny entity C any records it may possess on B. Entity A can confidently tell entity C to go piss up a rope and/or get a warrant and/or issue a subpoena.
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Blackened
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join:2003-09-29
| In this case, sadly, that depends upon the University exercising it's due process rights, since the apparent (innocent until proven guilty, of course) infringement happens on their servers. Because some Universities don't, it's up to the student to choose another school who will stick up for due process and their individual rights.
Make no mistake, the RIAA is doing all it can to subvert the law to get what they want, which is why they earned the image of thugs, and why due process should apply for all colleges automatically, especially those who receive any public funding. The fact that some colleges are allowing the RIAA in with the red carpet treatment should be an alarm to students. Every single one of these suits should be fought with as much impunity, and care for individual rights as possible. And students who want their rights cared for need to use more research and be more selective about where they attend, to get public funding cut off for those who cater to corporate interests before individual rights. |
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pnh102
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| reply to major marco
said by major marco :So you believe that it is entirely legal for entity C to harass and/or threaten to serve a lawsuit upon A in order to get information from A regarding B? It is 100% legal.
Any person or entity in the USA can legally sue anyone else for any reason, regardless of merit. Of course, such lawsuits can be declared frivolous or can be dismissed outright, but the burden of proof is on the defendant to prove that he/she is not liable. Of course, that means "lawyering up" and spending tons of money to defend oneself in court.
Someone else said this once, and it applies here perfectly... There's a reason it is called the "legal system" and not the "justice system."
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
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| said by pnh102 :... Someone else said this once, and it applies here perfectly... There's a reason it is called the "legal system" and not the "justice system." yes indeed. I have learned the hard way that in the American legal system, justice is for those that can afford it. You pay nothing and you are not likely to get any justice; if you only pay a little, you only get a little justice; complete justice is very expensive. |
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TKJunkMail
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1 edit | said by nasadude :yes indeed. I have learned the hard way that in the American legal system, justice is for those that can afford it. You pay nothing and you are not likely to get any justice; if you only pay a little, you only get a little justice; complete justice is very expensive. The Golden Rule(not the bible version): Those who have the gold, rule!! And this version of the rule has applied throughout recorded history.
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Pirate515
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|  reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :It is 100% legal. Any person or entity in the USA can legally sue anyone else for any reason, regardless of merit. Of course, such lawsuits can be declared frivolous or can be dismissed outright, but the burden of proof is on the defendant to prove that he/she is not liable. Of course, that means "lawyering up" and spending tons of money to defend oneself in court. Someone else said this once, and it applies here perfectly... There's a reason it is called the "legal system" and not the "justice system." Well, in that case, it would be perfectly legal for me to sue the ISP or a university that decides to give my info up to the RIAA without a subpoena or a court order. If they are so smart to just pony up my info to a private party without my consent, then let THEM pay whatever that party thinks I owe them.
If there is a subpoena and they must cooperate with authorities, then I understand that they have no choice but to give the info up. But if they give it up just because someone says so, they better be prepared to be taken to the cleaners by me.
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TKJunkMail
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| said by Pirate515 :Well, in that case, it would be perfectly legal for me to sue the ISP or a university that decides to give my info up to the RIAA without a subpoena or a court order. You are right. But can you afford to pay for an attorney willing to take on an ISP or University. Unless you can interest the ACLU or some other organization that will do it for free, you better be pretty rich to afford the lawyer fees.
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vpoko
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join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :Any person or entity in the USA can legally sue anyone else for any reason, regardless of merit. Of course, such lawsuits can be declared frivolous or can be dismissed outright, but the burden of proof is on the defendant to prove that he/she is not liable. Of course, that means "lawyering up" and spending tons of money to defend oneself in court. Someone else said this once, and it applies here perfectly... There's a reason it is called the "legal system" and not the "justice system." Filing a frivilous suit in itself is actionable (meaning someone can be sued for filing a frivilous suit), and filing a blatantly frivilous suit could be contempt of court. Threatening to file a frivilous suit can (and has been prosecuted as) blackmail.
Why did you decide that the burden of proof shifts to the respondent? The burden of proof in a civil case is on the claimant. |
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soccerguy
join:2004-06-28
Seattle, WA
| reply to pnh102
Legal to a point.
In most cases (cases involving strict liability are but one group of exceptions), the plaintiff is still required to prove a prima facie case. Otherwise the defendant can get the claims dismissed "for failure to state a claim" without the burden of proof shifting to the defendant.
Plaintiffs who sue without stating a cognizable claim will often end up paying the defendant's attorneys fees or be sanctioned. Depends on the nature of the claim. |
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supergirl
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| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :said by nasadude :yes indeed. I have learned the hard way that in the American legal system, justice is for those that can afford it. You pay nothing and you are not likely to get any justice; if you only pay a little, you only get a little justice; complete justice is very expensive. The Golden Rule(not the bible version): Those who have the gold, rule!! And this version of the rule has applied throughout recorded history. Funny, I don't think that is what Our Founding Fathers intended. You finally posted something that makes sense. |
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DSL Oberst
join:2001-11-29
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :But can you afford to pay for an attorney willing to take on an ISP or University. Or you can represent yourself pro se.
In any case, you are NOT required to have an attorney in order to pursue or defend against a lawsuit. The Clerk of the Court is required (at least according to the current statutes of the 50 states) to advise you of the procedures and forms required in a court of law. You may peruse the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and the state equivalents at your leisure. The law libraries in the courthouses of the land are open to the public.
Will people actually take the time and effort to learn this stuff? No, not unless they're going to make a buck off of it. This leads to much amusement when you realize that the very system that runs the life of the nation is ignored, seen as boring, and considered to be something only attornies and legislators have access to. |
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manfmmd
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clubs: | "A lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client." |
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vpoko
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Jamaica Plain, MA
| said by manfmmd :"A lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client." Then I guess laywers should find other lawyers to represent them, but for everyone else who finds lawyers too expensive, and are willing to do the legwork, it might be the only choice. |
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Thaler
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join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| said by vpoko :Then I guess laywers should find other lawyers to represent them, but for everyone else who finds lawyers too expensive, and are willing to do the legwork, it might be the only choice. If you've never seen court, yes, lawyers do hire lawyers for serious cases filed against them. Then again, if it's a clear fly-by-night baseless suit, then a lawyer might just be their own represenation to dismiss a clearly frivolous suit. |
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