openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
 ·AT&T Southeast
1 edit | Sounds Good to Me Sounds good to me. A commercial company shouldn't be forced to provide a luxury optional service to everyone, nor should they be required to fulfill such extortion tactics as building new community centers, planting trees, or any other non-pertinent local interest items. This is not a socialist state...yet. Allow the market to drive service deployments and costs. | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Sounds Good to Me said by openbox9  :Sounds good to me. A commercial company shouldn't be forced to provide a luxury optional service to everyone, nor should they be required to fulfill such extortion tactics as building new community centers, planting trees, or any other non-pertinent local interest items. This is not a socialist state...yet. Allow the market to drive service deployments and costs. But the majority of supporters claiming wired TV (controlled by local pols) is a utility, and that everyone MUST have, and that must be price controlled are also supporters of a socialist state. They are against a government that provides a national defense, but they are for a government that decides what we can smoke and what we can eat and how we must educate our children and how we must provide sex education, etc. Socialism, nanny government, fascism - all part of the liberals great design for gracious living.
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jslik
That just happened
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join:2006-03-17
clubs:
| Re: Sounds Good to Me No, some of us believe in long-time conservative ideas like federalism - leaving national defense to the national government and leaving local right-of-way decisions to the local government.
"...Government closest to the people is more responsive and accountable."
-George W. Bush | |
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| | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Sounds Good to Me I won't dispute the need for local government to take care of the people,but I will argue the ability of local government to extort corporate entities beyond standard corporate taxation. Why aren't McDonalds' franchisees required to pay local governments in a fashion similar to CATV and phone providers? | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Sounds Good to Me said by openbox9 :Why aren't McDonalds' franchisees required to pay local governments in a fashion similar to CATV and phone providers? Because the McDonald's franchises are built on private property, unlike the CATV and phone providers.
That would also be why satellite television is not required to pay local governments. | |
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jslik
That just happened
Premium
join:2006-03-17
clubs:
| said by openbox9 :I won't dispute the need for local government to take care of the people,but I will argue the ability of local government to extort corporate entities beyond standard corporate taxation. Why aren't McDonalds' franchisees required to pay local governments in a fashion similar to CATV and phone providers? Requiring build-out, access channels, or I-Nets isn't extortion. All those requirements are specifically allowed under federal law, which the telcos/cable folks have signed off on several times in the past. The telcos lack of foresight regarding the marketplace shouldn't be blamed on local government.
McDonald's isn't locating their facilities on public land, so they don't have to pay rent to the city, which the franchise fee truly is. | |
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| | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Sounds Good to Me I guess I've miscommunicated my point. I don't have a problem with businesses franchising (leasing) the ability to provide service to a community. My intention was not to argue paying for ROW use. My point is that is where the business' obligation to the community should end. Businesses lease access to the ROW and then provide services as they deem appropriate. | |
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jslik
That just happened
Premium
join:2006-03-17
clubs:
| Re: Sounds Good to Me said by openbox9 :My point is that is where the business' obligation to the community should end. Businesses lease access to the ROW and then provide services as they deem appropriate. I understand, and that's certainly a point worth arguing. My position is that providing those community communication enhancements above ROW lease/fees benefits everybody, including the provider. | |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| Socialism? Um, no, federalism. The point is, you aren't a real conservative, you are a capitalist pig. To you, the only good law, is a law that benefits the corporation. To the rest of us, we prefer the government to act in the best interest of the people. You know, living, breathing things that make us human.
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| | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Sounds Good to Me Not that it's relative, but you're right, I'm not a hardcore conservative...I never claimed to be  And no, there are plenty of good laws that benefit more than just the "megacorps". I do believe government should act in the best interest of all of its citizens...both corporate and otherwise. There is a comfortable middle ground, it just needs to be found. | |
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| | | ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
| Re: Sounds Good to Me said by openbox9 :Not that it's relative, but you're right, I'm not a hardcore conservative...I never claimed to be And no, there are plenty of good laws that benefit more than just the "megacorps". I do believe government should act in the best interest of all of its citizens...both corporate and otherwise. There is a comfortable middle ground, it just needs to be found. There is no middle ground with the corporate state. | |
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| | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | Re: Sounds Good to Me It's not a corporate state. Where did you pull that from? | |
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| | houselog442
join:2005-10-05
| said by karlmarx :Socialism? Um, no, federalism. The point is, you aren't a real conservative, you are a capitalist pig. To you, the only good law, is a law that benefits the corporation. To the rest of us, we prefer the government to act in the best interest of the people. You know, living, breathing things that make us human. Sounds like more whining from the communist pinkos on the left that want America to live in a Big Brother state! When I saw that Hilary 1984 the zombies sitting in the crowd remind me exactly of communist liberals; mindless and stupid.
Like I have said before, anybody who thinks like a communist liberal is a complete mentally retarded moron that is incapable of rational thought. When I see a liberal, I see someone in the special ed class that does nothing but drool, cry, shit and piss themselves. Communist Liberalism is basically an admission of inferiority, a class of sub-human retards that is as annoying as that crap that grows in your eye lashes when you wake up in the morning. That is also why the communist left supports Islamic terrorism. When communists see Muslims they see the same characteristics as themselves; Evil, oppressive, mindless little monsters! The only good communist is a dead one! | |
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| | | krayzie bone
join:2006-09-03
Marietta, GA
| Re: Sounds Good to Me Can you please go away? you have absolutely nothing to add of value or anything factual for that matter.
haha i laugh at your big brother comment. If anyone wants to have a big brother state, it's your lovely, patriotic hero George W. Bush. It's the media (TV, radio, ink) that wants to control us and the way we think. Looks like they already have a foothold on your soul... | |
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| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| said by karlmarx :Socialism? Um, no, federalism. The point is, you aren't a real conservative, you are a capitalist pig. To you, the only good law, is a law that benefits the corporation. To the rest of us, we prefer the government to act in the best interest of the people. You know, living, breathing things that make us human. I hate to tell you part of your flaw.. but, um, you know those living, breathing things you talk about? They too own businesses and are part of those corrupt corporations. What YOU are being is an extremest.. you're so far one sided that you forget that we the people own those businesses.
All I'm telling you is not to forget that.. I know that corporations are corrupting government, more so - the parties, but we're all in the same society. Don't empower business and corporations with the notion they are in some different league.
It's the person that is greedy, not the corporation or business... after all, we are all in this world for ourselves.. not the greater good.
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy ... those who also never take the time to point out a good fortune when the opportunity presents itself. It says a lot about one's moral character." - Unknown | |
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GetItRightDude
@bellsouth.net | Fascism isn't a liberal idea... Its a convervative, right wing ideology. Nice try though. | |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| Re: Sounds Good to Me said by GetItRightDude :
Fascism isn't a liberal idea... Its a convervative, right wing ideology. Nice try though.
Then why do some many liberals do it ? ie
Speech codes at colleges, Political correctness ? loss of private property laws ? Sorry wrong Facism is a liberal socialist ideology. | |
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| | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Sounds Good to Me said by DaveNJ :said by GetItRightDude :
Fascism isn't a liberal idea... Its a convervative, right wing ideology. Nice try though.
Then why do some many liberals do it ? ie Speech codes at colleges, Political correctness ? loss of private property laws ? Sorry wrong Facism is a liberal socialist ideology. Laugh, actually Fascism and Socialism are Antonym's.. WTG,F. I bet you feel real smart.. 
»thesaurus.reference.com/search?r···=Fascism | |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| Re: Sounds Good to Me said by Ahrenl :said by DaveNJ :said by GetItRightDude :
Fascism isn't a liberal idea... Its a convervative, right wing ideology. Nice try though.
Then why do some many liberals do it ? ie Speech codes at colleges, Political correctness ? loss of private property laws ? Sorry wrong Facism is a liberal socialist ideology. Laugh, actually Fascism and Socialism are Antonym's.. WTG,F. I bet you feel real smart.. » thesaurus.reference.com/search?r···=Fascism Because you are incapable of reading 3 or 4 sentences, if you re-read what i wrote. Why do liberals do it so much, if its not in there ideology ? Liberals today seem to be using it over and over. So without a academic answer. Why are liberals being facist ? Its supposed to not be liberal ?
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Sounds Good to Me said by DaveNJ :Because you are incapable of reading 3 or 4 sentences, if you re-read what i wrote. Why do liberals do it so much, if its not in there ideology ? Liberals today seem to be using it over and over. So without a academic answer. Why are liberals being facist ? Its supposed to not be liberal ? I'll be honest I did not read most of this thread but a definition is in order.
Fascism is when government and business work hand in glove. An example is the New Jersey automobile insurance laws. We are forced to buy high price insurance with all of the bells and whistles buy the government. This money goes to a business that makes huge profits on the money the government foresees to pay. That is fascism.
Just for the record that was put in place by a Homosexual, Democratic Governing. | |
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| | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Sounds Good to Me said by batterup :said by DaveNJ :Just for the record that was put in place by a Homosexual, Democratic Governing. .. those damn homosexuals.. they're ruining the world!!! It's all the fault of the homosexual!  Don't be a dick! --
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy ... those who also never take the time to point out a good fortune when the opportunity presents itself. It says a lot about one's moral character." - Unknown | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Sounds Good to Me said by fiberguy : those damn homosexuals.. they're ruining the world!!! It's all the fault of the homosexual! Don't be a dick! So if you read homosexual you think of dick. Don't get me wrong, its OK to be gay. | |
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| | | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20 | Re: Sounds Good to Me no... but your post was really way off course.. and stupid. | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Sounds Good to Me said by fiberguy :no... but your post was really way off course.. and stupid. Thank you. You are the undisputed master of stupid. How long ago did The Telephone Company show you the door? | |
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Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
| Companies wanting to compete SHOULD play on a level playing field. We have the Level Playing Field Statute in IL. I am all for competition, but not when one certain Telco wants preferential treatment to deploy - and only will serve the customers they deem worthy of their video service. Competition for some, but not all?
I also don't believe the munis need to be stripped of any local control. The system isn't broken here, and Verizon is deploying fiber and providing video after entering into local franchise agreements. Does anyone really want AT&T to have the power of eminent domain in their community? They can place a huge Lightspeed box in your yard if they deem it necessary, and there won't be a thing anyone can do about it at the local level if this horrendous legislation is passed in IL. | |
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| openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Sounds Good to Me I agree, there should be no preferential treatment in any direction. Government should allow (not mandate) commercial entities to serve customers and the commercial entities should not expect special treatment or protection from government. I don't necessarily have issue with franchise agreements in general, however I do see a problem when the franchise agreement goes above and beyond allowing a commercial businesses the ability to operate and provide service. I do not believe businesses should be required to fund local interest items. I do not believe businesses should be mandated to provide service to every citizen for luxury items. As for placing equipment in the ROW, that's progress. How should businesses provide services to citizens if they aren't allowed to place equipment? | |
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Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
| Re: Sounds Good to Me In this case (IL) no one is preventing AT&T from deploying any services. They simply do not want to play on a level playing field with competitors. They want preferential treatment and the ability to redline customers they don't deem worthy of their "competitive" service. | |
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| | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Sounds Good to Me said by Octopussy2 :ability to redline customers they don't deem worthy of their "competitive" service. /Flame retardant suit engaged....
That's the part I don't have a problem with per se. If the ROI isn't there, don't force the providers' hands into a money losing situation that costs other customers extra money to make up for. | |
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Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
| Re: Sounds Good to Me There are many communities in IL that are not served by AT&T right now - because it is not profitable for them to do so. They have a right to choose who they enter into an agreement with. If they don't like the rules of the game, and the Level Playing Statute (designed to protect consumers), no one is saying they have to play. Verizon is choosing to play. AT&T wants to make their own rules in the name of "competition" - and wants to sue towns that don't agree with their way of looking at things. They don't want any competition from munis that could offer competitive services though. Heck no! They feel THAT is unfair. They want to be in the business of telling Gov. what they can and cannot do and have the governmental power of eminent domain, yet don't want any Gov. involved in competing with the private sector. Hmmmmmm. Why do they get to have it both ways? What's good for the goose should be good for the gander.... | |
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Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| I have issue with your use of the word "forced".
These companies aren't being forced to do anything. They're being offered the chance to provide service and build highly profitable assets on public ROW's in exchange for building out their network to communities that may not have a desirable adoption rate.
Much like if you want to build a house in said community you must abide by the permitting structure, electrical, waste disposal, and fire codes.
Frankly they'd still be better off if they built their own networks and allowed the private entities to compete to provide service on it, instead of inviting a previously abusive monopoly into their back yards.
Get some nice MBIA wrapped revenue bonds, and sell them into the hugely liquid Muni market with a 3.00% yield. | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| said by openbox9 :Extortion tactics as building new community centers, planting trees, or any other non-pertinent local interest items. Care to provide proof for that? AT&T was unable to provide proof when Congress asked them to and retracted their statements.
The state level franchises are about more than "optional services". Basic cable is one of the two primary routes for the emergency alert services. Both the Iowa and Missouri bills expressly forbid requirements to carry emergency alerts. Why? Because phone companies do not have emergency alert interconnects in place already and they are expensive to build.
Besides that, basic cable and institutional cable is used for distance education by many colleges and community colleges. The state level bills are scrapping institutional cable completely and severely restricting educational basic cable (especially facilities support, which is completely eliminated in almost every case).
The last factor of basic cable beyond a "luxury" is remote viewing of government meetings. Try telling the senior and disabled community that they should just show up to meetings if they are that interested. These state franchises are also restriction funding and channel access for government channels. The Missouri bill authorizes cable companies to remove these channels from basic cable completely.
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