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Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
reply to DaveDude

Re: Sounds Good to Me

said by DaveDude:

said by GetItRightDude :

Fascism isn't a liberal idea... Its a convervative, right wing ideology. Nice try though.
Then why do some many liberals do it ? ie
Speech codes at colleges, Political correctness ? loss of private property laws ? Sorry wrong Facism is a liberal socialist ideology.
Laugh, actually Fascism and Socialism are Antonym's.. WTG,F. I bet you feel real smart..

»thesaurus.reference.com/search?r···=Fascism

Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
reply to openbox9

said by openbox9:

I'll grant you that 'forced' might not have been the best word choice. I'm all for following local codes and requirements. Every person and business should do so. I don't think that businesses should be required to serve every residence just for the opportunity to "open up shop" in a community. Should a cellular phone company be required to stand up a new transceiver closer to my house if my half of the city isn't covered just so the cellular provider has the opportunity to maintain their other transceivers?

I like the concept of a neutral infrastructure with a reselling capability. I don't think it will ever happen on a large scale though
If they want to build the towers on Public property, they should have the expectation that one of their covenants for use of the space is to serve the entire community that owns said space. If you're not providing service to me, then you're misappropriating my share of the public space granted to me as a residence of the township.

Another reason for the need of public access is the physical impracticality of every citizen attending ANY local government function. There are 30,000 people in my town, should we drive down to Gilette stadium for every selectman's meeting/town meeting/school committee meeting/finance board meeting/zoning board meeting/conservation board meeting/DPW meeting etc.?


jslik
That just happened
Premium
join:2006-03-17
reply to openbox9

said by openbox9:

My point is that is where the business' obligation to the community should end. Businesses lease access to the ROW and then provide services as they deem appropriate.
I understand, and that's certainly a point worth arguing. My position is that providing those community communication enhancements above ROW lease/fees benefits everybody, including the provider.


DaveDude
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
·ViaTalk
reply to Ahrenl

said by Ahrenl:

said by DaveDude:

said by GetItRightDude :

Fascism isn't a liberal idea... Its a convervative, right wing ideology. Nice try though.
Then why do some many liberals do it ? ie
Speech codes at colleges, Political correctness ? loss of private property laws ? Sorry wrong Facism is a liberal socialist ideology.
Laugh, actually Fascism and Socialism are Antonym's.. WTG,F. I bet you feel real smart..

»thesaurus.reference.com/search?r···=Fascism
Because you are incapable of reading 3 or 4 sentences, if you re-read what i wrote. Why do liberals do it so much, if its not in there ideology ? Liberals today seem to be using it over and over. So without a academic answer. Why are liberals being facist ? Its supposed to not be liberal ?
--
Go courageously to do whatever you are called to do. fear nothing. - St. Francis de Sales



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to Ahrenl

said by Ahrenl:

Laugh, actually Fascism and Socialism are Antonym's.. WTG,F. I bet you feel real smart..

»thesaurus.reference.com/search?r···=Fascism
Actually they are not. The most well known fascist society was NAZI Germany.

National Socialist German Workers' Party
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party

More:
»www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-4950532.html
»rexcurry.net/fascism=socialism.html
»ask.yahoo.com/20050920.html
fascism contains elements of both "left and right ideology"
»www.promethea.org/Misc_Compositi···ism.html
The difference between fascism and socialism is a fine point in practice. In intent they may differ, but in practice both tend toward consolidation of political power. Socialism typically favors central ownership to a greater degree (in the extreme of communism, all appreciable property is centralized) while fascism emphasizes state control over exchanges more than state control over property itself. With different emphasis, both are based on forced intervention with the individual human acts of creation and voluntary exchange, making creation and exchange involuntary.

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ross7

join:2000-08-16
reply to openbox9

said by openbox9:

Not that it's relative, but you're right, I'm not a hardcore conservative...I never claimed to be And no, there are plenty of good laws that benefit more than just the "megacorps". I do believe government should act in the best interest of all of its citizens...both corporate and otherwise. There is a comfortable middle ground, it just needs to be found.
There is no middle ground with the corporate state.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

It's not a corporate state. Where did you pull that from?


openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

1 edit
reply to Ahrenl

said by Ahrenl:

There are 30,000 people in my town, should we drive down to Gilette stadium for every selectman's meeting/town meeting/school committee meeting/finance board meeting/zoning board meeting/conservation board meeting/DPW meeting etc.?
Until you show me that all 30K people are actually interested in attending such meetings, your point is null, IMO.


Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
reply to openbox9

In this case (IL) no one is preventing AT&T from deploying any services. They simply do not want to play on a level playing field with competitors. They want preferential treatment and the ability to redline customers they don't deem worthy of their "competitive" service.


openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to marigolds

said by marigolds:

the city does pay indirectly for limited basic cable service for those who cannot afford it.
Do they buy the TV that goes along with it? If someone is really that poor, I would think that CATV access is the least of their worries. Where does the socialistic mindset end?
said by marigolds:

All new building construction in a franchised city is required to give access to dwellings for cable television service.
I assume your talking about apartment/office complexes and not necessarily private residences?


marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:2

said by openbox9:

I assume your talking about apartment/office complexes and not necessarily private residences?
Applies to private residences too, but the private residences do not have to allow anything beyond the walls of the building and the cable company has to make reasonable modifications to their building plans.
Basically, the property has to be wired and the cable company can place a pedastal on the property for service.
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openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to Octopussy2

said by Octopussy2:

ability to redline customers they don't deem worthy of their "competitive" service.
/Flame retardant suit engaged....
That's the part I don't have a problem with per se. If the ROI isn't there, don't force the providers' hands into a money losing situation that costs other customers extra money to make up for.
Expand your moderator at work


Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
reply to openbox9

Re: Sounds Good to Me

There are many communities in IL that are not served by AT&T right now - because it is not profitable for them to do so. They have a right to choose who they enter into an agreement with. If they don't like the rules of the game, and the Level Playing Statute (designed to protect consumers), no one is saying they have to play. Verizon is choosing to play. AT&T wants to make their own rules in the name of "competition" - and wants to sue towns that don't agree with their way of looking at things. They don't want any competition from munis that could offer competitive services though. Heck no! They feel THAT is unfair. They want to be in the business of telling Gov. what they can and cannot do and have the governmental power of eminent domain, yet don't want any Gov. involved in competing with the private sector. Hmmmmmm. Why do they get to have it both ways? What's good for the goose should be good for the gander....



batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
reply to DaveDude

said by DaveDude:

Because you are incapable of reading 3 or 4 sentences, if you re-read what i wrote. Why do liberals do it so much, if its not in there ideology ? Liberals today seem to be using it over and over. So without a academic answer. Why are liberals being facist ? Its supposed to not be liberal ?
I'll be honest I did not read most of this thread but a definition is in order.

Fascism is when government and business work hand in glove. An example is the New Jersey automobile insurance laws. We are forced to buy high price insurance with all of the bells and whistles buy the government. This money goes to a business that makes huge profits on the money the government foresees to pay. That is fascism.

Just for the record that was put in place by a Homosexual, Democratic Governing.


batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
reply to Octopussy2

said by Octopussy2:

The system isn't broken here, and Verizon is deploying fiber and providing video after entering into local franchise agreements.
Verizon is deploying but also lobbying for state franchise law. New Jersey now has a state franchise law and FIOS is now being run in Netcong.

All it would take to throw a monkey wrench in a FIOS deployment would to have one town to make unreasonable demands. FIOS is deployed by Central Office not towns.

FIOS is expensive to deploy, and feeding pork to every two bit hustling hog makes it much more so.


batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

1 recommendation

reply to karlmarx

said by karlmarx:

Forced is exactly the word you should use. Remember, the cable/telco's are using PUBLIC LAND, to run their wires. It's in the publics BEST INTEREST to force them to provide universal service.


The phone company doesn’t' need a towns permission to maintain the cables. The town comes into play only with granting permission to deliver TV over the wires.

This place has been lied to by the likes of Teletruth for so long and hard the facts are buried beneath massive mountains of B.S.

houselog442

join:2005-10-05
reply to karlmarx

said by karlmarx:

Socialism? Um, no, federalism. The point is, you aren't a real conservative, you are a capitalist pig. To you, the only good law, is a law that benefits the corporation. To the rest of us, we prefer the government to act in the best interest of the people. You know, living, breathing things that make us human.
Sounds like more whining from the communist pinkos on the left that want America to live in a Big Brother state! When I saw that Hilary 1984 the zombies sitting in the crowd remind me exactly of communist liberals; mindless and stupid.

Like I have said before, anybody who thinks like a communist liberal is a complete mentally retarded moron that is incapable of rational thought. When I see a liberal, I see someone in the special ed class that does nothing but drool, cry, shit and piss themselves. Communist Liberalism is basically an admission of inferiority, a class of sub-human retards that is as annoying as that crap that grows in your eye lashes when you wake up in the morning. That is also why the communist left supports Islamic terrorism. When communists see Muslims they see the same characteristics as themselves; Evil, oppressive, mindless little monsters! The only good communist is a dead one!

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
reply to karlmarx

said by karlmarx:

Socialism? Um, no, federalism. The point is, you aren't a real conservative, you are a capitalist pig. To you, the only good law, is a law that benefits the corporation. To the rest of us, we prefer the government to act in the best interest of the people. You know, living, breathing things that make us human.
I hate to tell you part of your flaw.. but, um, you know those living, breathing things you talk about? They too own businesses and are part of those corrupt corporations. What YOU are being is an extremest.. you're so far one sided that you forget that we the people own those businesses.

All I'm telling you is not to forget that.. I know that corporations are corrupting government, more so - the parties, but we're all in the same society. Don't empower business and corporations with the notion they are in some different league.

It's the person that is greedy, not the corporation or business... after all, we are all in this world for ourselves.. not the greater good.
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy ... those who also never take the time to point out a good fortune when the opportunity presents itself. It says a lot about one's moral character." - Unknown

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
reply to batterup

said by batterup:

said by DaveDude:

Just for the record that was put in place by a Homosexual, Democratic Governing.
.. those damn homosexuals.. they're ruining the world!!! It's all the fault of the homosexual!

Don't be a dick!
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy ... those who also never take the time to point out a good fortune when the opportunity presents itself. It says a lot about one's moral character." - Unknown


Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
reply to batterup

Do you know of such a town that has made such unreasonable demands?



batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
reply to fiberguy

said by fiberguy:

those damn homosexuals.. they're ruining the world!!! It's all the fault of the homosexual!

Don't be a dick!
So if you read homosexual you think of dick. Don't get me wrong, its OK to be gay.


batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
reply to Octopussy2

said by Octopussy2:

Do you know of such a town that has made such unreasonable demands?
In NJ there are 328 towns, it is an unreasonable demand to burden a network provider with having to feed pork to 328 hogs. The pork has been set by the state and applies to all.

Really, I don't care. FIOS is being run in Netcong, batterup will soon ride the light. batterup's 85 year old father is at this point in time riding the light. You people can kiss a leach and stay on dial-up.

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
reply to batterup

no... but your post was really way off course.. and stupid.



Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
reply to batterup

So, that would be a "no" about a specific town?


marcos04

join:2006-09-27
New York, NY
reply to marigolds

"Care to provide proof for that? AT&T was unable to provide proof when Congress asked them to and retracted their statements."

The FCC quoted telco testimony about a Florida municipality making similar demands in their December 20th Ruling on video franchising. Representatives of the Florida municipality claimed in the press that the story was entirely a fabrication.

But . . . AT&T did donate 1 million to a community center in Illinois. But this was a personal project of Congressman Bobby Rush. In exchange Rush signed on as a co-sponsor of the Barton-COPE Bill in the House. Not exactly a city extorting a corporation - more like a corporation buying political patronage.

Cable TV is a hugely profitable industry. In NYC alone, Time Warner posts over 1.3 billion in gross revenue. It's completely acceptable for local municipalities to request non-commercial channels and access facilities, iNets for municipal and emergency services, and fee set-asides to manage and maintain public right of ways.



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

said by marcos04:

It's completely acceptable for local municipalities to request non-commercial channels and access facilities, iNets for municipal and emergency services, and fee set-asides to manage and maintain public right of ways.
In your opinion. In my opinion, it is a tax on the people because they will pay for these amenities in higher prices. It is just a sneaky way for local pols to tax their constituents while blaming someone else for the higher cable costs.
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Expand your moderator at work


batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
reply to fiberguy

Re: Sounds Good to Me

said by fiberguy:

no... but your post was really way off course.. and stupid.
Thank you. You are the undisputed master of stupid. How long ago did The Telephone Company show you the door?


batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
reply to Octopussy2

said by Octopussy2:

So, that would be a "no" about a specific town?
Is having to building a swimming pool unreasonable? Is setting up a permanent $50,000.000.00 a year scholarship to be doled out by the local hogs unreasonable?