nutcr0cker
join:2003-04-02
Chandler, AZ
| reply to TKJunkMail
outsource outsource and away
1. Rampant outsourcing, thanks to bush and his cronies
2. Too much $$ for Iraq/war.
Initially they were justifying outsourcing, now they are crying foul about U.S falling behind. Can it be more funny. When you have the best CONgress that money can buy you should not whine about anything. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| <sarcasm>
said by nutcr0cker  :1. Rampant outsourcing, thanks to bush and his cronies I know! Because no USA-based company dared to outsource ANY job whatsoever until 01/20/2001.
said by nutcr0cker :2. Too much $$ for Iraq/war. Amen to that. You would think that Congress would try to remedy that by putting all sorts of farm subsidies and other pork barrel projects in a war funding bill. That would be totally absurd!
</sarcasm>
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
| said by pnh102 :<sarcasm> said by nutcr0cker :1. Rampant outsourcing, thanks to bush and his cronies I know! Because no USA-based company dared to outsource ANY job whatsoever until 01/20/2001. said by nutcr0cker :2. Too much $$ for Iraq/war. Amen to that. You would think that Congress would try to remedy that by putting all sorts of farm subsidies and other pork barrel projects in a war funding bill. That would be totally absurd! </sarcasm> LOL.
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www.seabee.org |
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krayzie bone
join:2006-09-03
Marietta, GA
| reply to pnh102
The republicans aren't that much better really; Heck the party is home to the biggest pork barrel legislator of 'em all: Ted Tubes Stevens. So really, it's both sides that are screwed up. Why are people still complaining about outsourcing? How many times do we have to go through the economic reasons of why outsourcing in the end is a win win situation? It was more of a campaign issue anyway... |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by krayzie bone :Why are people still complaining about outsourcing? How many times do we have to go through the economic reasons of why outsourcing in the end is a win win situation? I see. So to prove how great of a thing outsourcing is, would you be the first to voluntarily give up your job to someone in a foreign country who would do it for less, possibly under working conditions that you yourself would find deplorable?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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Nuts
join:2006-04-27
Forest, OH | 3400 Circuit City employees are going to have to give up their jobs to other people here in the US who are willing to do their jobs for less or take pay cuts |
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krayzie bone
join:2006-09-03
Marietta, GA
| reply to pnh102
Ok you are just looking at the social side of the issue. Yes, people do lose jobs, but that is just the short term outlook. If corporations/businesses are expected to grow, don't you think it would be a wise investment for these business to look elsewhere for cheaper labor? When businesses can cut costs and focus on their core, that allows them to invest more money back home. They can hire new engineers to develop more technology, they can cut costs for services that we use etc. Why do you think Dell computers are so cheap? they can cut costs on tech support, sales, etc. by outsourcing elsewhere. That savings in cost eventually comes back to us.
As far as work ethics go, even in this country, you have to work hard to get what you want. Nothing is given to you on a silver platter. People who jumped on the IT bandwagon a decade ago thought they would still have their jobs today. They are finding out the hard way that if they can't provide value to a company, why should a company pay them more for the same skill set and same qualifications as someone else who can do the same for cheaper?
I'm not in the IT field, but even if I was, what would voluntarily giving up my job prove? And why are you comparing the economy of a fully developed nation to that of one that is still growing? That's not a fair comparison. IT jobs in India compared to OTHER jobs in India are actually pretty good. In terms of Rupees, they are making a good living than most professions (except for your doctors, lawyers, etc.) and it is raising their standard of living. LOL deplorable working conditions? what are you talking about? care to provide a link rather than opening your mouth?
I suggest you take a look at the economic report of Gregory Mankiw in 2004. He is a Harvard economist, and very well respected in his field. He knows what he is talking about, and when he, and hundreds of other economists, conclude that Outsourcing is a win-win situation in the long term, I tend to believe his use of logic and reason, rather than the political, social, and emotional side of the issue that is blown up in the media. |
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krayzie bone
join:2006-09-03
Marietta, GA | reply to Nuts
OK what's your point? |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to krayzie bone
said by krayzie bone :Ok you are just looking at the social side of the issue. Yes, people do lose jobs, but that is just the short term outlook. If corporations/businesses are expected to grow, don't you think it would be a wise investment for these business to look elsewhere for cheaper labor? When businesses can cut costs and focus on their core, that allows them to invest more money back home. This reads like prose from my old economics textbook. When any company outsources jobs from one country to another, they are specifically not investing in the country losing the jobs.
said by krayzie bone :They can hire new engineers to develop more technology, they can cut costs for services that we use etc. Why do you think Dell computers are so cheap? they can cut costs on tech support, sales, etc. by outsourcing elsewhere. That savings in cost eventually comes back to us. Many IT companies which do this hire tons of engineers in foreign countries for cheap. They simply are not interested in hiring domestic talent. Bill Gates said so when he asked Congress to grant unlimited H1B visas.
Dell is a perfect example of outsourcing gone bad. They had to "re-insource" their business technical support because of issues with foreign CSRs. Their recent numbers have not looked good either.
said by krayzie bone :As far as work ethics go, even in this country, you have to work hard to get what you want. No one is disputing this.
said by krayzie bone :I'm not in the IT field, but even if I was, what would voluntarily giving up my job prove? Well, I am in the IT field, but you don't have to be in this field to learn about how badly outsourcing has destroyed people working in this sector. And as for you volunteering to give up your job to someone in a foreign country who'd do it for less, it would prove that you believe what you're saying about how great of a thing offshore outsourcing is.
said by krayzie bone :And why are you comparing the economy of a fully developed nation to that of one that is still growing? Yes. I have nothing against fair trade with other countries. The USA gains a lot by trading with Japan, South Korea, most of Europe and Canada. Each of these regions also gains from business done in the USA.
said by krayzie bone :That's not a fair comparison. IT jobs in India compared to OTHER jobs in India are actually pretty good. I have no objections to any country expanding its economy. However, why should it be the American worker that has to be sacrificed for this purpose? Many other countries were able to develop into rich and powerful nations without exploiting cheap labor. What nations have used only cheap labor and become rich in the process?
said by krayzie bone : In terms of Rupees, they are making a good living than most professions (except for your doctors, lawyers, etc.) and it is raising their standard of living. LOL deplorable working conditions? what are you talking about? care to provide a link rather than opening your mouth? Some foreign employers there do provide good pay and benefits, but this is not the case universally. Any employer in the USA which pulls some of this stuff (unless they're hiring illegals, which makes it ok), would be prosecuted.
»news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6162973.stm
»www.ecommercetimes.com/rsstory/55934.html
said by krayzie bone :I suggest you take a look at the economic report of Gregory Mankiw in 2004. He is a Harvard economist, and very well respected in his field. He knows what he is talking about ... I'm supposed to take the word of some ivory-tower elite who is probably tenured, and thus in no danger of losing his job? Please, be serious. If these people actually had to work in the real world, and were faced with the prospect of their livelihood disappearing forever, they would be singing a different tune.
We might as well go all the way in terms of offshore outsourcing, because US workers are so expensive. Of course, after the last job is outsourced out of the USA, who is going to have any money to buy all this "cheap great stuff" that these companies are making?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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krayzie bone
join:2006-09-03
Marietta, GA
1 edit | It would take me a long time to explain everything, maybe it will help if I just pointed you in the right direction.
»www.phptr.com/articles/article.a···m=1&rl=1
Like I said earlier, if you work hard and play smart, you should have no reason to believe that you will be outsourced. If you provide value to a company whether it be by having a masters or an MBA and are able to apply those skills or any other factor, you have no worry. Most jobs that are being cut here in the US are relatively low paying jobs. True there are some very high paying white collar jobs that are being cut, but those are quite few relative to the low paying ones.
What we should do is help those who have lost jobs by giving them incentives to go back to school and learn newer skills. Not too sound so cliche, but technology is changing so fast. Computers will eventually take the job of skilled workers. But before that can happen, we will need skilled people who need to know how to operate said computers/technology. |
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asdfdfdfdf
@Level3.net
| "Like I said earlier, if you work hard and play smart, you should have no reason to believe that you will be outsourced. If you provide value to a company whether it be by having a masters or an MBA and are able to apply those skills or any other factor, you have no worry. "
This doesn't make much sense within the context of your previous comments:
"They are finding out the hard way that if they can't provide value to a company, why should a company pay them more for the same skill set and same qualifications as someone else who can do the same for cheaper?"
Your latter comment suggests that skills and hard work don't really matter unless you are also willing to work for wages that, in this country, would be near the poverty line. An indian worker can live a middle class life on an income that, in america, wouldn't even cover many people's medical insurance costs. Telling people that it makes sense to move jobs to where people will work for a small fraction of what an american worker would have to earn to have a middle class life and then telling them that the problem is that they aren't hard working enough or need to get a better education and skill set strikes me as extremely cynical.
It's also very callous to make facile claims that everyone wins with outsourcing.
And by the way, I have to wonder how in touch you are with the real world when you suggest that having an mba is of much value in today's American job market. |
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