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pctekk

@centurytel.net

DSL Remote terminal and naked DSL

Any techs out there know what it costs to upgrade an RT to be DSL capable. I know all situations are different but just avg costs. The CO is DSL capable and about 5 miles away.

Also the tel company is telling me they cant do dry DSL because of regulations. Telling me the DSL distance limitation is because of dial tone degradation at longer distances. Are they telling me that if they had dry DSL there is not a distance limitation since you dont have a dial tone anyway ?



rolande
Certifiable
Premium,Mod
join:2002-05-24
Dallas, TX
kudos:5
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·ViaTalk

The costs to deploy a new RT range around $750,000 when all is said and done.

The line they gave you about dial-tone degradation is off base. There is a DSL signal degradation that occurs the longer the wiring distance but it is completely unrelated to dial tone or POTS service. It is also affected by the wire gauge, the quality of the patches, and possible bridge taps etc. The distance limitation is a factor regardless of any other services being provided on the same copper pair.

Now at 5 miles out from the CO, they probably have load coils on the line to boost your POTS signal. Load coils destroy DSL signal. You can not run DSL through a load coil. Each DSL provider is different in their standards they set, but SBC/at&t has an 18,000 wire feet limit for DSL provisioning. Beyond that they cannot guarantee signal quality.
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pctekk

@centurytel.net

Ok thx but keep in mind its not a new RT theres already one there it just dont have the DSLAM's. So in other words dont they just have to add the cards to the RT ?



RadioDoc
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2
reply to pctekk

"Dry DSL" is more expensive and has lower speeds available than "wet DSL", and is mostly a pundit and regulatory buzzword. There is no real benefit to it.

Are you with AT&T? CenturyTel does things a lot differently.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.



rolande
Certifiable
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join:2002-05-24
Dallas, TX
kudos:5
Reviews:
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·ViaTalk
reply to pctekk

The DSLAM equipment runs around $250,000 to deploy. But there are other considerations that have to be taken into account. Just because the RT is there does not mean that they have facilities in the CO to connect the RT into the ATM backhaul network for DSL access.



RadioDoc
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2
reply to pctekk

said by pctekk :

Ok thx but keep in mind its not a new RT theres already one there it just dont have the DSLAM's. So in other words dont they just have to add the cards to the RT ?
They probably have to replace the RT as well as get higher capacity data circuits to it. If the CO is not set up for DSL on RTs then there is a substantial cost on the other end as well for termination & aggregation equipment.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.


pctekk

@centurytel.net

Yeh im with C Tel. I figured this forum would get some responses so I went here. We have 30 residents trying to get it and trying to get them to upgrade the RT. There doing a business case right now im just hoping the numbers that come up are in our favor. Been trying for 2 yrs. to get something. Wanted 1 k month for a T1



pctekk

@centurytel.net

Heres there reply. FYI The RT is only 1/4 mile away.

Currently you are over 18,000 feet from the remote, which
is the DSL hub, and that's not including the distance from the remote to
the central office. Currently we can only stretch DSL up to 18,000 feet.
After you surpass that distance, your DSL still works, but your dial
tone starts to degrade. We cannot offer service of this type and there
are regulations against it. Until we can implement a technology to
"boost" DSL distribution to further lengths, we have no choice but to
deny the service to you. We want to provide you with a quality service,
not a service that wouldn't work to one's expectations, or even exceed
them. The surrounding residents in your area are all also too far to get
it at this time



Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
kudos:5
reply to pctekk

They could offer ERDSL using T1 lines instead...but the odds of that are low.

And they're probably referencing the inablilty to add load coils and the reason why voice would degrade over 18k.



dslwanter
It's coming
Premium
join:2002-12-16
Mineral Ridge, OH
reply to pctekk

said by pctekk :

Heres there reply. FYI The RT is only 1/4 mile away.

Currently you are over 18,000 feet from the remote, which
is the DSL hub, and that's not including the distance from the remote to
the central office. Currently we can only stretch DSL up to 18,000 feet.
The Remote Terminal may only be 1/4 miles driving distance for you but something else isn't right here. They're telling you you're 18,000 feet from the "remote" which is the where the "DSL" is but "that's not including the distance from the remote to the central office"? Are they trying to the there's a CO lit and a Remote Terminal, but you're even too far from the remote terminal and definitely too far from the CO?

Something about that reply confused the hell out of me.
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carpdiem7

join:2001-02-11
Cedarburg, WI
reply to Dennis

ERDSL is garbage. Lot's of problems with it from a bandwidth stand point. Then there's the heat it kicks off on the copper...

As for cost of deploying an RT there are a lot of variables and Rolande and Radio Doc hit pretty much all of them. Even with those variables mentioned there are other smaller variables that might make the cost to deploy less. In Century tels case though it sounds like they looked at the numbers and gave you a generic response as it didn't prove in to deploy it. Really not surprising.


kherr
Premium
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to pctekk

There's always Google's TiSP (»www.google.com/tisp/). It's worth a shot anyway .



59126125
Premium
join:2006-01-21
reply to carpdiem7

said by carpdiem7:

Then there's the heat it kicks off on the copper...
Kicks off heat on the copper? Could you elaborate further on this statement?
--
There is a reason the wires are twisted together, it's called a pair. It defeats the whole purpose of twisted pair cabling by using the solid orange and solid green to wire the jack.


dslwanter
It's coming
Premium
join:2002-12-16
Mineral Ridge, OH
reply to kherr

said by kherr:

There's always Google's TiSP (»www.google.com/tisp/). It's worth a shot anyway .
LOL let's not go there again! »AT&T dumps Yahoo!, contracts with Google for email (4-1)
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RadioDoc
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2
reply to 59126125

I believe he means it causes crosstalk interference within the cable.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.



59126125
Premium
join:2006-01-21

Hmmm, never heard of it described that way before.



pctekk

@centurytel.net

DSLWanter; Yeh confused me too. I know for a fact the CO is 5 miles away and was upgraded to DSL capable last yr. The RT is right around the corner and from what I was told thats where my ph line goes. And from what I have been told in the past thats the piece they need to upgrade to DSL capable for us to get DSL. The RT. Its a small town and some old equipment. I should take a pic of the RT and post it. We have 25-30 residents wanting DSL, did a petition and all have called recently to get on waiting list. I wish they would pass legislation like PA. If you get 50 names or 25% of population they have to put DSL in. What really gets me is in todays world they still cat get past the distance limitation as well other means of broadband like fixed wireless. Were so far behind. This town is 10 yrs behind I know that. Its kinda sad.



dslwanter
It's coming
Premium
join:2002-12-16
Mineral Ridge, OH

1 edit

said by pctekk :

DSLWanter; Yeh confused me too. I know for a fact the CO is 5 miles away and was upgraded to DSL capable last yr. The RT is right around the corner and from what I was told thats where my ph line goes. And from what I have been told in the past thats the piece they need to upgrade to DSL capable for us to get DSL. The RT. Its a small town and some old equipment. I should take a pic of the RT and post it. We have 25-30 residents wanting DSL, did a petition and all have called recently to get on waiting list. I wish they would pass legislation like PA. If you get 50 names or 25% of population they have to put DSL in. What really gets me is in todays world they still cat get past the distance limitation as well other means of broadband like fixed wireless. Were so far behind. This town is 10 yrs behind I know that. Its kinda sad.
It really is rather sickening. I've said it over and over again, they've got billions to purchase new territory but they can't upgrade their current territory, it really doesn't make sense. But that's how it is, petitioning, offering sexual pleasures, giving them your wallet isn't going to get them to upgrade any remote terminals in the area, period.
--
"You're as worthless as a screen door on a submarine!" Check out my Internet Radio Station & DJ Service, »www.thebomb102.com.

carpdiem7

join:2001-02-11
Cedarburg, WI
reply to 59126125

I've never seen it but I've heard erdsl causes the copper wires to get really hot. To a point that 26g actually has melted. Throw that in the underground with pulp insulation and...gulp. Also, the number of customers on it tends to eat up the overall bandwidth to everyone. As for the RT pictures. Unless you have a picture of the inside equipment the picture of a hut/cev isn't going to help. It could be old pair gain systems in the RT, it could be non-dsl ready lite spans, or it could be there's not a concentrator in the CO. Lot's of variables to consider.



Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
kudos:5
reply to dslwanter

said by dslwanter:

I've said it over and over again, they've got billions to purchase new territory but they can't upgrade their current territory, it really doesn't make sense. But that's how it is, petitioning, offering sexual pleasures, giving them your wallet isn't going to get them to upgrade any remote terminals in the area, period.
You do realize he's talking about centurytel, right? Not AT&T.
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dslwanter
It's coming
Premium
join:2002-12-16
Mineral Ridge, OH

said by Dennis:

said by dslwanter:

I've said it over and over again, they've got billions to purchase new territory but they can't upgrade their current territory, it really doesn't make sense. But that's how it is, petitioning, offering sexual pleasures, giving them your wallet isn't going to get them to upgrade any remote terminals in the area, period.
You do realize he's talking about centurytel, right? Not AT&T.
Yes, we're discussing both...
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"You're as worthless as a screen door on a submarine!" Check out my Internet Radio Station & DJ Service, »www.thebomb102.com.

xfarmer

join:2005-09-17
Lowell, MI
reply to RadioDoc

yeah, this is just crazy. I have been trying to get DSL on our road for at least six years now. I have always been told that I am too far from the CO and that there needs to be a RT installed. Just a couple weeks ago when I called I was told the RT has been installed but hasn't been turned on yet. I am really sick of satellite internet, especially now that WB's ping times are + 1200. What ever happened to BPL? Did the Hams squash that?



RadioDoc
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2

You might want to ask about this in ATT Direct. They may be able to give you some more info about the status of that RT.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.