Karl Bode
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4 edits | Re: Rosy muni-WiFi stories getting fewer and fewer quote:
He provided 3 additional failed projects.
No, actually, he listed three largely different unfinished projects and then jumped to the conclusion he wants to see as a resident political troll (and investor) who opposes municipal competition with incumbent interests.
Philly is not only a smashing success, it was recently rated one of the best performing networks in the country. St. Cloud Florida is also doing well. The Earthlink deployments (public/private) thus far have been successful. We're talking about half-built networks, so "success" or "failure" aren't really applicable yet though...
A good plan is a good plan, and a bad plan is a bad plan. You can find examples of all of them across all funding and deployment models. | |
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TKJunkMail
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2 edits | Re: Rosy muni-WiFi stories getting fewer and fewer said by Karl Bode  :Philly is not only a smashing success, it was recently rated one of the best performing networks in the country. LOL. Philly has several pilot areas still starting up. Access is practically nil. Philly's rating is based on Verizon's cellphone data access capabilities and has little to do with their muni project. »www.wirelessphiladelphia.org/wir···reas.cfm
EarthLink and Wireless Philadelphia are currently wrapping-up functionality tests in this area They aren't even done testing their hardware yet.
I have relatives in 3 areas of Philadelphia. And muni WiFi is available in none of them even though the Earthlink map shows coverage. Coverage is more like very limited hotspots in specific areas of the so-called covered areas.
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Karl Bode
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| Re: Rosy muni-WiFi stories getting fewer and fewer quote:
Philly's rating is based on Verizon's cellphone data access capabilities and has little to do with their muni project.
You don't actually know what you're talking about:
»www.novarum.com/MetroWi-FiRankings2.htm
I'm sorry your aunt or whomever can't get service. The fact is you see failure where you'd like there to be failure. | |
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DaSneaky1D
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| OK, granted, I called out "failed" when that statement wasn't warranted.
I do agree that there was an unfounded hope that these networks would be viable alternatives to "common" HSI services.
If Earthlink can come in and take a poor network and apply business skills needed to make them successful, then that's one thing. Most of the stories, though, are of communities and small businesses trying to do it themselves...and we're just now starting to see the results of their efforts.
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Karl Bode
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| Re: Rosy muni-WiFi stories getting fewer and fewer quote:
I do agree that there was an unfounded hope that these networks would be viable alternatives to "common" HSI services.
Eh, they weren't born out of a desire to create alternatives. They were born out of a desire to simply have cheap access. quote:
If Earthlink can come in and take a poor network and apply business skills needed to make them successful, then that's one thing. Most of the stories, though, are of communities and small businesses trying to do it themselves...and we're just now starting to see the results of their efforts.
Again, some plans are good, some aren't. Some projects succeed, some fail. The majority of these just launched or are still being built.
Google offers free corporate profit subsidized Wi-Fi in Mountain View, California. There have been ample complaints of coverage. Do I declare the network is a failure? | |
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truocchio
join:2004-07-05
Miami Beach, FL
2 edits | Karl,
Please...you are citing a "study" or rating from the same company that is trying to selling consulting services for muni wireless. That is just plain biased and unrealistic.
Here is a link to the St Cloud network issues that are occurring from a more reputable source.
»www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news···04/70720
Philly is a smashing success???
They are 1 or 2 years behind schedule and I havent heard any positive feedback from users to date.
»www.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/d···ud_x.htm
There is no way that muni wi-fi will be the great broadband hope that many were expecting. I have been installing wi-fi systems for 5 years and I am certain it does not scale well in a muni situation. Parks, public spaces, bus and train stops maybe. But blanket coverage indoors is not realistic using the techniques that EL, Metro, and others deploying the networks are using. To do it right each and every MDU would have to be surveyed & deployed and single family homes...well they are pretty much SOL in most cases, unless they want to by high gain dual channel bridges/repeaters which only end up adding more noise to the spectrum.
I got into the business because the choices (cable and telco) were unappealing to many and I saw a market opportunity. But based on years of experience I know the limitations of the technology, and they are Significant. With the muni budget and EL, Metrofi ROI schedules there is no way they can spend the money needed to do it "right". If they had that money they might as well roll out fiber to the home and sell wholesale access. | |
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Karl Bode
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3 edits | Re: Rosy muni-WiFi stories getting fewer and fewer quote:
Please...you are citing a "study" or rating from the same company that is trying to selling consulting services for muni wireless.
Novarum sells those same services to everyone.
I don't know, a year old Wired News story and the fact Philly is behind schedule means these networks aren't successful? Philly's project sparked an entire flood of cities that use it as an example. I imagine Earthlink, Google, AT&T, Metro-Fi and many others have engineers who say it is in fact very possible.
Don't get me wrong. I'm no cheerleader for Wi-Fi necessarily. Coverage gaps are pretty common. That's not being debated. What's being debated is TCH's initial troll that suggests these systems are failures. I find the broad wishful assertions of failure made by the politically motivated and financially conflicted (Think Tanks, partisans, etc.) to be annoying.... | |
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TKJunkMail
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| Re: Rosy muni-WiFi stories getting fewer and fewer said by Karl Bode : Coverage gaps are pretty common. I'm not sure that's being debated. What's being debated is TCH's initial troll that suggests these systems are failures. Oh, I see, any thing you don't agree with is a troll. But your personal attacks don't qualify as trolling. Just getting the facts straight.
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Karl Bode
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| Re: Rosy muni-WiFi stories getting fewer and fewer Haven't made any personal attacks. Simply stating your initial post was a factually challenged political troll aimed at supporters of municipal broadband projects. quote:
Just getting the facts straight.
If only that were true.... | |
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| | truocchio
join:2004-07-05
Miami Beach, FL
| Either way they have a major stake in "showing" muni wireless is working well.
Yes it does mean they are not successful, not failed but certainly not my definition of success.
I tried to tell them on a few occasions as I meet with vendors and service people through the industry, maybe they are smarter than me or know something I don't. Or maybe they are all realizing it slowly. EL is losing customers and its leased line markets slowly and they need to do something...anything. AT&T is reluctantly getting into the game because everyone else is. Metro-Fi is starting to change their business model for new cities they are deploying due to slower than expected ROI. Google has no plans for significant rollouts of muni wi-fi. They did their campus/extended city and spent much more per square mile than EL, Metro, ATT, IBM etc and there are still significant coverage gaps and many are complaining or pointing out poor service levels.
Municipal Wi-fi can be done but, like I said, the budgets don't match the service level they are selling. If it was as easy as many though, many more would be doing it or have it done, including Google.
I am not saying they have failed...yet. I am saying they will fail over time or by the time they get completed they will be obsolete. | |
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John Galt
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| Re: Rosy muni-WiFi stories getting fewer and fewer said by truocchio :I am not saying they have failed...yet. I am saying they will fail over time or by the time they get completed they will be obsolete. These roll-outs will never recover the CAPEX or OPEX monies spent...and will thus be considered commercial failures.
Now as to whether these services can be operated as a muni service for the benefit of the citizenry remains to be seen, but I would guess that there will always be nickles going out and pennies coming in. If your measure of success is profitability then you may be disappointed. If the measure is something else...then you might not be.
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Karl Bode
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join:2000-03-02
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| I think your position is fair. Time will tell. Google has talked about using PLC for in-home networking, last I heard. Not sure if complaints have improved.
My general complaint isn't over genuine healthy skepticism of the models or architecture where it's deserved. I'm largely annoyed by the broad declaration of failure being professed by PR groups like the Pacific Research Institute, who are taking money from incumbents to portray all such projects in a bad light (if you want to talk about bias).
quote:
AT&T is reluctantly getting into the game because everyone else is.
AT&T doesn't dabble in markets casually. If they believed this market wasn't profitable and doomed to implode, I just don't think they would touch it. | |
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| | | | truocchio
join:2004-07-05
Miami Beach, FL
| Re: Rosy muni-WiFi stories getting fewer and fewer Agreed....only time will tell.
I hate those groups as well, they just muddy up the waters to keep the customer uneducated and overwhelmed with back and forth nonsense. This just buys the incumbents more time to suck the last dollars they can out of their aging systems.
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| | mrbueno
join:2002-08-03
US | Check out the Corpus Christi WiFi network. It is a horrid failure and is built on the same tech Earthlink uses. Earthlink just bought that network as well. | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: Rosy muni-WiFi stories getting fewer and fewer It can't really be a horrid failure, as it originally was built simply for municipal and emergency use. Have they even converted that to residential access yet? That transfer deal just happened.... | |
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