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ossito16
join:2004-07-31
Whiting, IN
 ·RCN CABLE
| Do it right the first time Can someone break this down for me?
Why is it that Apple can't give people what they want, especially for $300? Why do we have to hack things in order to get the product we wanted in first place. Nobody is asking for the thing to double as a coffee maker. We always have to hack electronic devices, unlock cell phones, enable features that were disabled by manufacturer. It is f'n ridiculous. I just really don't understand, companies spend so much money on marketing and focus groups. Apple and Microsoft are the 2 companies that should understand this the most. | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Do it right the first time No kidding.
Verizon wireless is notorious for this shit too. I had to hack my Motorola phone to get all the features back that Verizon crippled on it. I love the service, but this crap really pisses me off.
There's no reason Apple TV shouldn't be able to play these formats straight from the box....
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FCC, PLEASE KILL THE MERGER BEFORE THE MERGER KILLS SATRAD! | |
| Alphy
join:2001-12-31
Troy, MI
1 edit | First of all, most of these formats and uses are far beyond the scope of Apple's intended audience. The end game for this, in Apple's eyes, is to get people hooked on buying stuff through the iTunes store and playing it on the Apple TV, whenever that functionality may arise. (I'm talking about purchasing through the ATV unit directly)
The majority of the hacks we're seeing now, are using the Apple TV in ways Apple never intended. Apple doesn't shun this (that we know of, this may change...who knows) however, these uses are not their main focus. I mean, truthfully, the only reason I would pick this up is to playback recorded shows in .mkv that are 720p. I would _never_ purchase something from the Apple store to stream to the Apple TV. Then again, I'm not Apple's intended audience for this product. So there you go. | |
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WileEC
mindtaker, macky cat, etc.
join:2002-02-07
Yonkers, NY
·Verizon FIOS
| said by ossito16  :Why is it that Apple can't give people what they want, especially for $300? Here's this thing... it goes like this...
Don't buy it.
The real question:
Why must the apple sheep buy everything that jobs sells?
Here's some light reading for the Apple sheep elite:
»www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/chin···reenpeac
Apple dead last among popular electronics manufacturers with regard to the environment.
Gee, dead last. You mean Apple isn't all fairy princesses and fluffy marshmallows? | |
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peter_m
Premium
join:2005-07-13
Canada, QC
| Re: Do it right the first time said by WileEC :said by ossito16 :Why must the apple sheep buy everything that jobs sells? Well who cares, I should ask? Probably people who just hate Apple and competing corporations! | |
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ablack6596
join:2005-01-28
Scarsdale, NY | I didn't buy it, and don't plan on buying it.... | |
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purc2523
@pennunited.com
| There has been questionable legality of including Xvid codecs. Even though they are now licensed under the GPL, it is possible that Apple feared adding them to the Apple TV. Maybe they had different reasons, but we probably will never know. Licensing DivX costs money. | |
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Johnny
Premium
join:2001-06-27
Atlanta, GA
·Comcast
| Why is it that Apple can't give people what they want, especially for $300?
Who says it's what "people want?"
The Apple TV is for the purpose of displaying the iTunes Library, and the contents of the Photo Library or equivalent on the PC, on a widescreen television, by streaming or syncing.
iTunes video files are .mp4. Not Xvid, VidX, DivX, AVI, WMV, RealVideo, etc.
It's great that the hackers have managed to make use of the fact that the Apple TV runs OS X, and thus can do anything a regular OS X machine can.
But if Apple had added all that mess of different formats, the product would lose the simplicity and singularity of purpose that is the reason the iPod had the success that it did. So they chose not to do it.
I also doubt that there are many people wanting to play all those formats. How would you get such files on your computer in the first place? | |
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FiL
Premium
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD
| Re: Do it right the first time uhhhhh...No so if you actually viewed their tv ad. Im assuming you didn't because A- in said commercial you see your computer wirelessly streaming content to your tv. B- no where does it imply ONLY Apple products, codecs, etc. can be streamed.
So, false advertising. OK, lots of companies do it. And here I was thinking Apple was "different". W.e., right?
How would you get such "files"? You mean the extension/codec or are you implying someones gotta STEAL a XVid? Well then damn! Maybe I should toss my conversion proggy's 1 and 0's to the MPAA, uh? Smaller file, better sound compression, etc. is HOW you get Xvids,DivX, WMV, RealVid files onto your PC. Not so hard.
So in conclusion, the "it'll get to messy" factor is irrelevant once you actually SEE thier TV ad. Looks to me it added a whole lot of bloat to the simplicity equation. | |
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Johnny
Premium
join:2001-06-27
Atlanta, GA
·Comcast
| Re: Do it right the first time "It's on your computer.
It's on your iPod.
Now, it's on your TV."
Sounds fine to me. Anything that can be on the iPod can be on the TV.
Now let's check the iPod specs to see what formats it holds... oh why bother. Anyone that says "proggy" is a PC user and Apple hater anyway. | |
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thender2
Glamour Profession
Premium
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY
1 edit | quote:
But if Apple had added all that mess of different formats, the product would lose the simplicity
How does it become less simple because it is functional?
My MP3 player can play vorbis, FLAC, and wma files as well as MP3s. When I put an MP3 file on it, it doesn't say "is this an mp3, an ogg, a flac, or a wma file?" I understand how this would make it less simple. But it doesn't. It checks the file extension and assigns the proper decoder so it plays back when I hit play, like any player. My player could support 100 formats, and I'd never know. It doesn't make it harder to use at all.
How does adding xvid support make it less simple? Do you have that little faith in the average consumer that you think just by virtue of it being a more flexible product, that it will become harder to use?
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The Problem With Music.
Our Rationale
Time to rewrite the DMCA. | |
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Johnny
Premium
join:2001-06-27
Atlanta, GA
·Comcast
| Re: Do it right the first time Because files with those formats don't stream from iTunes. So it becomes a mess having to point the thing at whatever folder you put them in. Another mess having to get the file extensions correct. Geeks can do it, but the target market doesn't give a shit about those things. And Apple doesn't have any reason to support streaming a dozen different types of stuff that didn't come from legitimate purchases. | |
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thender2
Glamour Profession
Premium
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY
| Re: Do it right the first time quote:
So it becomes a mess having to point the thing at whatever folder you put them in.
I don't see how it's a mess. Put the file in a video folder, and viola.
quote:
Another mess having to get the file extensions correct.
99.9% of the files I download come with extensions, where are you looking?
quote:
Geeks can do it, but the target market doesn't give a shit about those things.
Yes, I know, I've heard this before. The target market doesn't care about quality, freedom of use, have a brain, can't walk and chew gum at the same time, etc. I don't buy it. I don't believe joe blow can't put an avi file in a folder titled "video" or whatever the appletv uses, just as easily as he can a .mp4 or .mkv.
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The Problem With Music.
Our Rationale
Time to rewrite the DMCA. | |
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Johnny
Premium
join:2001-06-27
Atlanta, GA
·Comcast
| Re: Do it right the first time The target market doesn't care about quality, freedom of use, have a brain, can't walk and chew gum at the same time, etc. I don't buy it. I don't believe joe blow can't put an avi file in a folder titled "video" or whatever the appletv uses, just as easily as he can a .mp4 or .mkv.
It's not that he can't - after all, he can be taught to run 8 different antivirus products on Windows... but he doesn't want to. He wants to take his existing iTunes, and iPhoto (or PC equiv), which now 100 million people have, and watch it on the TV. That's all. He doesn't know DivX from Shinola. He doesn't even know what MPEG-4 or H.264 is, but he knows there are files that play on his iPod, and he knows they come from iTunes. And he knows that the files on iTunes come from either his purchased CDs or the iTunes Store. He doesn't want to mess with folders or file extensions - just choose it from the databases that iTunes and iPhoto keep.
The Apple TV can be easily modified to play those other codecs, for those who want to.
As far as marketing, Apple is leveraging the iPod and iTunes installed base of 100 million to try and make the Apple TV the easy-to-use choice for living room viewing. Six buttons on the remote, not 40. Music, Photos, Movies, TV Shows, Trailers, not a huge confusing selection of different video types. No menu items or buttons for little-used or geek-only functions cluttering up the works. Same Front Row interface already used on all Intel Macs except the Mac Pro.
Simplicity of the interface is what made the iPod the overwhelming success that it is. They are trying to leverage that. They know that the competitors already have, or are going to be coming out with similar items. They are relying on word of mouth to make the Apple TV the product of choice due to ease-of-use. Note that the voice recorder, FM radio, etc. did nothing to help other mp3 players beat the iPod. It's because their interfaces still sucked. | |
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GreedyConsumer
@cgocable.net
| Because files with those formats don't stream from iTunes. That's a plus, not a minus. If that's all you see this unit as, you should be upset it's not free.
So it becomes a mess having to point the thing at whatever folder you put them in. Wait a minute. Just because a file is not streamed from iTunes means it must end up in a "whatever" folder...that I picked? Oh no! 
My DVD player presents those confusing folders in a list that I use my remote to navigate through. Once in a folder with media files, I'm presented with the filename (without extension) and any additional information the player has gleaned from meta data / media tags. The big old 'select' button sets things in motion. The average pet cat could figure this stuff out.
Another mess having to get the file extensions correct. Is this a problem on OSX? Every media player I know handles extensions and most follow up with a file content/header verification.
Geeks can do it, but the target market doesn't give a shit about those things. Anyone can do it, geeks just did it first - better. Every consumer on this planet wants more for less. Most want it simple. None want vendor lock-in.
And Apple doesn't have any reason to support streaming a dozen different types of stuff that didn't come from legitimate purchases. Hyperbole is unbecoming. Keep it in the OS war threads. | |
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readtweenlines
@ps.net
| said by ossito16 :Can someone break this down for me? Why is it that Apple can't give people what they want, especially for $300? Because then Apple would have to pay DivX to license their codec or take the risk that the XviD is legal in it's codec and won't get Apple sued. Also Apple supported DivX and XviD will piss off the Movie studios, because we all know what they are used primarily for.
You think it was an accident the AppleTV is easy to expand. | |
| | Emiya
join:2006-03-30
Southington, OH
| Re: Do it right the first time DivX and XviD are both part of the MPEG-4 ASP profile. To have playback compatibility you would only have to pay a nominal royalty to the MPEG-LA. Their royalty fees are cheap too.
You would only need to pay DivX for use of their logo and to say "DivX Certified" which is a spiffy way to show the sheep they can play these files but it's not really necessary. | |
| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| out of the box xvid and Divx would piss off hollywood(they arent highly controlable by the media and put control in the hands of the enemy ie the consumer) and we all know that the movie mafia would just buy laws that make the codecs illegal on set top boxes.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by ossito16 :Can someone break this down for me? Why is it that Apple can't give people what they want, especially for $300? Why do we have to hack things in order to get the product we wanted in first place. Nobody is asking for the thing to double as a coffee maker. We always have to hack electronic devices, unlock cell phones, enable features that were disabled by manufacturer. It is f'n ridiculous. I just really don't understand, companies spend so much money on marketing and focus groups. Apple and Microsoft are the 2 companies that should understand this the most. Because they want to sell you that later as an upgrade. NOBODY nickel and dimes you like apple!
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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ifarrell
join:2000-08-10
Willow Spring, NC
 ·Vonage
| Re: Do it right the first time said by dvd536 :said by ossito16 :Can someone break this down for me? Why is it that Apple can't give people what they want, especially for $300? Why do we have to hack things in order to get the product we wanted in first place. Nobody is asking for the thing to double as a coffee maker. We always have to hack electronic devices, unlock cell phones, enable features that were disabled by manufacturer. It is f'n ridiculous. I just really don't understand, companies spend so much money on marketing and focus groups. Apple and Microsoft are the 2 companies that should understand this the most. Because they want to sell you that later as an upgrade. NOBODY nickel and dimes you like apple! Except Microsoft and Sony. | |
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myhoes
Michael Extreme User
Premium
join:2003-10-05
Laval, QC
clubs: | hack your device render its warranty voip :P im sure that has Some part to do with things
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And that my friends is what they say is..That! | |
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