| haha Goodbye Vonage. Now I get to taunt my friend about him saying they are the best. |
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priller
join:2000-10-20
Gainesville, VA
1 edit | Vonage is just the first!!! Be careful what you wish for!
Vonage isn't doing something other VoIP providers aren't. Vonage was just the first target. If the judgment against them holds, all others will be shutdown as well. This is only a test case. |
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 NowVOIPIn the beginning there was POTS
join:2006-03-05
Round Lake, IL | DT, i would hate to disagree, but you are wrong. This lawsuit, has bearing on only a select few VOIP companies that actually using the "patented" technology. There are several including Cable that do not use the technology and as such VZ would be powerless to stop them.
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The revolution will be televised! |
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| reply to brianiscool
Re: haha Everybody is looking past 1 fact. And that is Vonage can pay royalties to Verizon. It may raise the rates they must charge to customers but they can stay in business.
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 JeffreyWilpon please sell the MetsPremium
join:2002-12-24
Long Island
kudos:3
 ·Vonage
 ·Optimum Online
| said by fAcEtIOUs:Everybody is looking past 1 fact. And that is Vonage can pay royalties to Verizon. It may raise the rates they must charge to customers but they can stay in business. Isn't that is assuming that Verizon and the court accepts that? ... Does Vonage has sufficient financing to withstand months and months of legal fees and still stay afloat?
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"When you get lost in your imaginatory vagueness, your foresight becomes a nimble vagrant."
[Ramblings] [RIP Millie 1993-2006]
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priller
join:2000-10-20
Gainesville, VA
1 edit | reply to NowVOIP
Re: Vonage is just the first!!! That could very well be.
However, one key point of Vonage's defense was that they use Commercial Off-the-shelf or OpenSource software to operate the network. If true, that would strongly imply that many others are exposed to the same patent infringement.
If the above is true ... I've often wondered if VZ was going after the right people. Shouldn't they be going after the developers that wrote the software that contains the patents instead of the network operator that is using it? |
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| reply to Jeffrey
Re: haha said by Jeffrey:said by fAcEtIOUs:Everybody is looking past 1 fact. And that is Vonage can pay royalties to Verizon. It may raise the rates they must charge to customers but they can stay in business. Isn't that is assuming that Verizon and the court accepts that? ... Does Vonage has sufficient financing to withstand months and months of legal fees and still stay afloat? Vonage might not have enough resources to do both, but they made their choice and will live or die by it. But other VOIP providers that may be violating the Verizon patents can negotiate or fight - their choice.
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 Jim GurdPremium
join:2000-07-08
Plymouth, MI | reply to fAcEtIOUs
said by fAcEtIOUs:Everybody is looking past 1 fact. And that is Vonage can pay royalties to Verizon. It may raise the rates they must charge to customers but they can stay in business. Even if that's true they would then lose their only competitive edge which is a lower price. Without a lower price there is no reason to leave the reliability of POTS.
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We don't care. We don't have to. We're the phone company.
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 chrisPoor Impulse ControlPremium
join:2000-08-13
Middletown, CT | reply to fAcEtIOUs
said by fAcEtIOUs:said by Jeffrey:said by fAcEtIOUs:Everybody is looking past 1 fact. And that is Vonage can pay royalties to Verizon. It may raise the rates they must charge to customers but they can stay in business. Isn't that is assuming that Verizon and the court accepts that? ... Does Vonage has sufficient financing to withstand months and months of legal fees and still stay afloat? Vonage might not have enough resources to do both, but they made their choice and will live or die by it. But other VOIP providers that may be violating the Verizon patents can negotiate or fight - their choice. I had thought I read something that said Verizon was not interested in the royalities and they wanted Vonage shut down instead. |
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 v35_pilotWhoops, there goes another AMUPremium
join:2005-12-12
Fayetteville, NY
·ViaTalk
 ·Verizon FiOS
| reply to brianiscool
said by brianiscool:Goodbye Vonage. Now I get to taunt my friend about him saying they are the best. Less competition is never good for the consumer. What do you pay per month for phone service? |
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 LokerPremium
join:2004-07-11
Fargo, ND | reply to NowVOIP
Re: Vonage is just the first!!! said by NowVOIP:DT, i would hate to disagree, but you are wrong. This lawsuit, has bearing on only a select few VOIP companies that actually using the "patented" technology. There are several including Cable that do not use the technology and as such VZ would be powerless to stop them. Verizon's patents are really quite broad....thats why I am still confident this is going to get tossed on appeal...
If it does not though it could mean hell for a lot of VoIP outfits because of the broadness of the patents...
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"While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic inQuake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking |
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| reply to priller
said by priller:That could very well be. However, one key point of Vonage's defense was that they use Commercial Off-the-shelf or OpenSource software to operate the network. If true, that would strongly imply that many others are exposed to the same patent infringement. If the above is true ... I've often wondered if VZ was going after the right people. Shouldn't they be going after the developers that wrote the software that contains the patents instead of the network operator that is using it? With verizon doing this. Not only will they kill off some voip providers , but they will also kill off some OSS devs and companies using OSS.
This has a ripple affect , just like sco did. Now people will hawk their wares saying see OSS is bad for business you open yourself up for lawsuits in the future.
Admitting they used OSS is bad, for OSS , but I am sure MS and other closed vendors are licking their chops at this as a side effect.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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If Vonage is using off the shelf hardware and Open source shouldn't Verizion be going after them not Vonage.
Would that not be the equivalent of Company Y saying they have the patents on Gas Caps used in GM trucks then suing UPS for violating the patent. When in fact GM was a fault. (note: I don't know if UPS uses GM trucks or not just an example.) |
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nozzer
join:2004-06-25
Waltham, MA | reply to Loker
Not only are they broad, they seem to fail the "obviousness" test, making a mockery of the whole idea of "process patents".
I mean the idea that someone could patent something as obvious as using a server to translate IP addresses to phone numbers to route calls, as recently as 2000 seems ridiculous to me. There must be prior art there somewhere.
Thank god I have an overseas (where this kind of process patent ISN'T recognized) VOIP provider as backup |
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 GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:4 | reply to Loker
said by Loker:said by NowVOIP:DT, i would hate to disagree, but you are wrong. This lawsuit, has bearing on only a select few VOIP companies that actually using the "patented" technology. There are several including Cable that do not use the technology and as such VZ would be powerless to stop them. Verizon's patents are really quite broad....thats why I am still confident this is going to get tossed on appeal... If it does not though it could mean hell for a lot of VoIP outfits because of the broadness of the patents... The thing is, a lot of these patent were filed 10 or so years ago. I can't recall the VOIP landscape back then. I know there were a few companies like Net2Phone that were messing around in that space several years ago, but was it prior to VZ's filings? |
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| reply to priller
Packet8 Isn't going anywhere I wouldn't worry. Other than that who else is going down? The cable industry? I don't think so.
Vonage asked for it when they used technologies that were not there own and they are paying the price. There never was a work around they made that statement but it never was.
The only thing they can do is start from scratch and spend the money on making VOIP the legal way through research and money well spent. Not using any ones protected technologies.
Game over for now Vonage. |
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2 edits | reply to fAcEtIOUs
Re: haha said by fAcEtIOUs:Everybody is looking past one fact. And that is Vonage can pay royalties to Verizon. It may raise the rates they must charge to customers, but they can stay in business. Yes, and I am pretty sure that to laugh at Vonage some more, Verizon will charge them some astronomical amount for royalties, forcing Vonage to charge more for their VoIP than Verizon charges for their POTS service. With that in mind, how can Vonage keep existing customers and sign up new ones? The main selling point of VoIP is that while it does have some drawbacks compared to POTS, it is cheaper, and those who are willing to live with these drawbacks in order to save a few bucks will use VoIP instead. However, if they had to live with drawbacks AND pay more while they are at it, then what's the point? Might as well go back to POTS service then.
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Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...
A MESSAGE to the RIAA and the MPAA: You shouldn't wound what you can't kill...
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 AnClarPremium
join:2003-07-31
Belton, TX | reply to brianiscool
This begs an interesting question. Will all those "locked to Vonage" ATAs that Linksys and Vonage have flooded the market with be unlocked as part of a deal if (when) Vonage goes belly-up, or will the consumers be stuck with useless ATA hardware in addition to whatever service they lose?
My guess is that, as usual, this will be another consumer BOHICA deal and all those ATAs will become so much useless junk. 
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When in danger or in doubt run in circles, scream and shout! |
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 nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | reply to BosstonesOwn
Re: Vonage is just the first!!! said by BosstonesOwn:This has a ripple affect , just like sco did. Now people will hawk their wares saying see OSS is bad for business you open yourself up for lawsuits in the future. Really? And how've things been working out for SCO, lately?
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Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets. |
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nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | reply to Goober
said by Goober:said by Loker:said by NowVOIP:DT, i would hate to disagree, but you are wrong. This lawsuit, has bearing on only a select few VOIP companies that actually using the "patented" technology. There are several including Cable that do not use the technology and as such VZ would be powerless to stop them. Verizon's patents are really quite broad....thats why I am still confident this is going to get tossed on appeal... If it does not though it could mean hell for a lot of VoIP outfits because of the broadness of the patents... The thing is, a lot of these patent were filed 10 or so years ago. I can't recall the VOIP landscape back then. I know there were a few companies like Net2Phone that were messing around in that space several years ago, but was it prior to VZ's filings? You're assuming that Verizon didn't buy the requisite patents so that they could put the screws to the rest of the industry.
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Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets. |
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