Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| reply to brandon
Re: More colleges should do this
said by brandon  :Killing someone = illegal. Copyright infringement = illegal. Umm...if you view murder as being in the same ballpark as copyright infringement...there's some problems.
You're comparing apples to oranges to prove a point. By the same token, I could very well equate George W. to the VT shooter based on the fact that they're both male. |
|
cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| reply to patcat88
Re: This will not matter
said by patcat88 :But the question then is, are you required to give up your encryption keys ALA 1984 to "show" you arent guilty of a crime? Or is plausible deniability and 4th amendment still legal in USA? They could care less what you are actually transmitting. You don't HAVE to give up anything. Just as they don't HAVE to provide you with a network connection either.
--
Go Colts |
|
brandon
Some truth included in this post.
Premium
join:2003-03-31
Hurley, MS
 ·AT&T Southeast
| reply to yock
Re: More colleges should do this
said by yock :Driving requires training, as you can kill people when you operate a vehicle improperty. I dont' think the same could be said of BitTorrent... Killing someone = illegal.
Copyright infringement = illegal. |
|
Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| reply to yock
said by yock :Tell me something, how does this differ from any other debate which surrounds the control of technology to control behavior? Why does it make sense to ban p2p to prevent piracy, but banning guns to prevent violent crime is folly? You've got a point.
However, the right to bear arms is secured by the bill of rights. The right to download porn, however, was never stated.  |
|
Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :They can download that same software using FTP or HTTP protocols. If those also aren't blocked. (I find FTP transfers nigh-impossible sitting behind the campus network)
Not to meantion, direct FTP and/or HTTP transfers to some legit sites are slow or not offered. A P2P block certainly interferes with students trying to get these legitimate services, or at least do so in a timely fashion. |
|
Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| reply to brandon
said by brandon :It's finding the innocents that is difficult, and a monumental waste of time. Better to throw them all out, and let the innocents plead not guilty. Quite the "guilty until proven innocent" kinda guy, eh? |
|
Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: This will not matter
said by TKJunkMail :They will just go after those workstations exhibiting massive amounts of traffic. They will get them even if they use encryption to try and hide. Nothing the students do will hide the amount of traffic generated by P2P. ...other than the workstations that legitimately and daily genererate a lot of traffic. Some projects in CS required a lot of number-crunching and data-sharing through the computer networks there. Students tapping into this also generated a ton o' traffic.
I'd hate to see the universities cracking down on Computer Science majors acting well within their rights. |
|
yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| reply to brandon
Re: More colleges should do this
Driving requires training, as you can kill people when you operate a vehicle improperty. I dont' think the same could be said of BitTorrent...
--
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge
"The opposite of war isn't peace, it's creation." |
|
brandon
Some truth included in this post.
Premium
join:2003-03-31
Hurley, MS
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to yock
said by yock :If I were a student at OU and I wanted to download the latest release of something (Linux ISO, OpenOffice, etc.) via BitTorrent, I would first have to gain approval from the University. You also have to get a license to drive. Your point? |
|
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: This will not matter
said by TKJunkMail :said by osrk :said by patcat88 :You mean VPNing through a non-uni relay to hide P2P traffic? No any sort of encryption no matter how weak will get by these devices. Torpark and the standard encryption on bittorrent easily gets by these devices and allows people to use bittorrent again. This is more like a facade than anything, it will have no lasting impact. They will just go after those workstations exhibiting massive amounts of traffic. They will get them even if they use encryption to try and hide. Nothing the students do will hide the amount of traffic generated by P2P. But the question then is, are you required to give up your encryption keys ALA 1984 to "show" you arent guilty of a crime? Or is plausible deniability and 4th amendment still legal in USA?
Egh, you can always say your rendering your powerpoint presentation over a cluster with the "RAM" of the CPU being accessed over the internet (plenty of traffic I think). |
|
yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: More colleges should do this
said by TKJunkMail :said by yock :If I were a student at OU and I wanted to download the latest release of something (Linux ISO, OpenOffice, etc.) via BitTorrent, I would first have to gain approval from the University. They can download that same software using FTP or HTTP protocols. Which during initial release slow to a trickle.
Tell me something, how does this differ from any other debate which surrounds the control of technology to control behavior? Why does it make sense to ban p2p to prevent piracy, but banning guns to prevent violent crime is folly?
--
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge
"The opposite of war isn't peace, it's creation." |
|
TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
| reply to yock
said by yock :If I were a student at OU and I wanted to download the latest release of something (Linux ISO, OpenOffice, etc.) via BitTorrent, I would first have to gain approval from the University. They can download that same software using FTP or HTTP protocols.
--
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page |
|
yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| reply to brandon
If I were a student at OU and I wanted to download the latest release of something (Linux ISO, OpenOffice, etc.) via BitTorrent, I would first have to gain approval from the University. This is absolutely unacceptable. I haven't done a damn thing wrong, yet my innocence is being punished because of unscrupulous peers, a heavy-handed school administration, and a powerful Washington lobby.
People have completely lost sight of what it means to fight the good fight, and will simply take the path of least resistance because it's just easier. Well wake up, it isn't easier for everyone, and the people you're making it hard for are the people who follow the rules. That isn't right, it never will be right, and it should be appalling to reasonable people.
--
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge
"The opposite of war isn't peace, it's creation." |
|
brandon
Some truth included in this post.
Premium
join:2003-03-31
Hurley, MS
·AT&T Southeast
1 edit | reply to yock
said by yock :Sounds like the offenders should be easy to find, if they'd try. That's like saying that the offenders in a soccer riot are easy to find. Of course they are. It's finding the innocents that is difficult, and a monumental waste of time. Better to throw them all out, and let the innocents plead not guilty.
It's not necessarily an assumption of guilt if you allow the ability to argue your side. Otherwise we'd never arrest anyone without having a trial first because that would be assuming they were guilty, right? |
|
yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| reply to brandon
said by brandon :said by yock :Don't block the technology, block the illegal use of it. I'm incredibly disappointed by this decision. They are. If you have a legitimate use for it, then you can speak with IT and have the block removed. I fundamentally oppose assumption of guilt, so we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.And before you say "they should go after the offenders, rather than requiring the legitimates to request unblocking," just think of the logistics. If 99.99% of the population of the university uses p2p illegally, and 0.005% can use something besides p2p to do their work, then unblocking for the other 0.005% of the people who REQUIRE p2p would not be hard at all.
Sounds like the offenders should be easy to find, if they'd try.
--
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge
"The opposite of war isn't peace, it's creation." |
|
TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to osrk
Re: This will not matter
said by osrk :said by patcat88 :You mean VPNing through a non-uni relay to hide P2P traffic? No any sort of encryption no matter how weak will get by these devices. Torpark and the standard encryption on bittorrent easily gets by these devices and allows people to use bittorrent again. This is more like a facade than anything, it will have no lasting impact. They will just go after those workstations exhibiting massive amounts of traffic. They will get them even if they use encryption to try and hide. Nothing the students do will hide the amount of traffic generated by P2P.
--
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page |
|
brandon
Some truth included in this post.
Premium
join:2003-03-31
Hurley, MS
·AT&T Southeast
1 edit | reply to yock
Re: More colleges should do this
said by yock :Don't block the technology, block the illegal use of it. I'm incredibly disappointed by this decision. They are. If you have a legitimate use for it, then you can speak with IT and have the block removed.
And before you say "they should go after the offenders, rather than requiring the legitimates to request unblocking," just think of the logistics. If 99.99% of the population of the university uses p2p illegally, and 0.005% can use something besides p2p to do their work, then unblocking for the other 0.005% of the people who REQUIRE p2p would not be hard at all. |
|
yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH | reply to TKJunkMail
Don't block the technology, block the illegal use of it. I'm incredibly disappointed by this decision. |
|
Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| reply to TKJunkMail
Er...most colleges already do port-block most P2P services, even at the cost of legitimate file transfers. For instance, using BT to grab a copy of OpenOffice behind the university is really a no-go (unless I like the trickle of ~2kbps!).
Its the university's network, and so its their rules as to how users can access the internet. |
|
osrk
join:2005-02-28
Sterling, CT
| reply to patcat88
Re: This will not matter
said by patcat88 :You mean VPNing through a non-uni relay to hide P2P traffic? No any sort of encryption no matter how weak will get by these devices. Torpark and the standard encryption on bittorrent easily gets by these devices and allows people to use bittorrent again.
This is more like a facade than anything, it will have no lasting impact. |
|
