Re: This will not matter in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18236525 en Thu, 03 Dec 2009 00:51:58 EDT Thu, 03 Dec 2009 00:51:58 EDT Re: More colleges should do this http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18245176 Thaler :
said by brandon See Profile :

Killing someone = illegal.
Copyright infringement = illegal.
Umm...if you view murder as being in the same ballpark as copyright infringement...there's some problems.

You're comparing apples to oranges to prove a point. By the same token, I could very well equate George W. to the VT shooter based on the fact that they're both male.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18245176 Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:40:32 EDT Re: This will not matter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18239006 cdru :
said by patcat88 See Profile :

But the question then is, are you required to give up your encryption keys ALA 1984 to "show" you arent guilty of a crime? Or is plausible deniability and 4th amendment still legal in USA?
They could care less what you are actually transmitting. You don't HAVE to give up anything. Just as they don't HAVE to provide you with a network connection either.
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said by yock See Profile :

Driving requires training, as you can kill people when you operate a vehicle improperty. I dont' think the same could be said of BitTorrent...
Killing someone = illegal.
Copyright infringement = illegal.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18238975 Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:30:10 EDT Re: More colleges should do this http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18238415 Thaler :
said by yock See Profile :

Tell me something, how does this differ from any other debate which surrounds the control of technology to control behavior? Why does it make sense to ban p2p to prevent piracy, but banning guns to prevent violent crime is folly?
You've got a point.

However, the right to bear arms is secured by the bill of rights. The right to download porn, however, was never stated. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18238415 Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:49:05 EDT Re: More colleges should do this http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18238393 Thaler :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

They can download that same software using FTP or HTTP protocols.
If those also aren't blocked. (I find FTP transfers nigh-impossible sitting behind the campus network)

Not to meantion, direct FTP and/or HTTP transfers to some legit sites are slow or not offered. A P2P block certainly interferes with students trying to get these legitimate services, or at least do so in a timely fashion.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18238393 Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:44:55 EDT Re: More colleges should do this http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18238376 Thaler :
said by brandon See Profile :

It's finding the innocents that is difficult, and a monumental waste of time. Better to throw them all out, and let the innocents plead not guilty.
Quite the "guilty until proven innocent" kinda guy, eh?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18238376 Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:42:19 EDT Re: This will not matter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18238367 Thaler :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

They will just go after those workstations exhibiting massive amounts of traffic. They will get them even if they use encryption to try and hide. Nothing the students do will hide the amount of traffic generated by P2P.
...other than the workstations that legitimately and daily genererate a lot of traffic. Some projects in CS required a lot of number-crunching and data-sharing through the computer networks there. Students tapping into this also generated a ton o' traffic.

I'd hate to see the universities cracking down on Computer Science majors acting well within their rights.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18238367 Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:40:36 EDT Re: More colleges should do this http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18237727 yock : Driving requires training, as you can kill people when you operate a vehicle improperty. I dont' think the same could be said of BitTorrent...
--
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge
"The opposite of war isn't peace, it's creation."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18237727 Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:38:07 EDT Re: More colleges should do this http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18237722 brandon :
said by yock See Profile :

If I were a student at OU and I wanted to download the latest release of something (Linux ISO, OpenOffice, etc.) via BitTorrent, I would first have to gain approval from the University.
You also have to get a license to drive. Your point?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18237722 Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:37:06 EDT Re: This will not matter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18236525 patcat88 :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by osrk See Profile :

said by patcat88 See Profile :

You mean VPNing through a non-uni relay to hide P2P traffic?
No any sort of encryption no matter how weak will get by these devices. Torpark and the standard encryption on bittorrent easily gets by these devices and allows people to use bittorrent again.

This is more like a facade than anything, it will have no lasting impact.
They will just go after those workstations exhibiting massive amounts of traffic. They will get them even if they use encryption to try and hide. Nothing the students do will hide the amount of traffic generated by P2P.
But the question then is, are you required to give up your encryption keys ALA 1984 to "show" you arent guilty of a crime? Or is plausible deniability and 4th amendment still legal in USA?

Egh, you can always say your rendering your powerpoint presentation over a cluster with the "RAM" of the CPU being accessed over the internet (plenty of traffic I think).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18236525 Thu, 26 Apr 2007 09:52:34 EDT Re: More colleges should do this http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18236497 yock :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by yock See Profile :

If I were a student at OU and I wanted to download the latest release of something (Linux ISO, OpenOffice, etc.) via BitTorrent, I would first have to gain approval from the University.
They can download that same software using FTP or HTTP protocols.
Which during initial release slow to a trickle.

Tell me something, how does this differ from any other debate which surrounds the control of technology to control behavior? Why does it make sense to ban p2p to prevent piracy, but banning guns to prevent violent crime is folly?
--
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge
"The opposite of war isn't peace, it's creation."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18236497 Thu, 26 Apr 2007 09:43:59 EDT Re: More colleges should do this http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18236488 TKJunkMail :
said by yock See Profile :

If I were a student at OU and I wanted to download the latest release of something (Linux ISO, OpenOffice, etc.) via BitTorrent, I would first have to gain approval from the University.
They can download that same software using FTP or HTTP protocols.
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People have completely lost sight of what it means to fight the good fight, and will simply take the path of least resistance because it's just easier. Well wake up, it isn't easier for everyone, and the people you're making it hard for are the people who follow the rules. That isn't right, it never will be right, and it should be appalling to reasonable people.
--
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge
"The opposite of war isn't peace, it's creation."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18236465 Thu, 26 Apr 2007 09:37:17 EDT Re: More colleges should do this http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18236429 brandon :
said by yock See Profile :

Sounds like the offenders should be easy to find, if they'd try.
That's like saying that the offenders in a soccer riot are easy to find. Of course they are. It's finding the innocents that is difficult, and a monumental waste of time. Better to throw them all out, and let the innocents plead not guilty.

It's not necessarily an assumption of guilt if you allow the ability to argue your side. Otherwise we'd never arrest anyone without having a trial first because that would be assuming they were guilty, right?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18236429 Thu, 26 Apr 2007 09:29:29 EDT Re: More colleges should do this http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18236389 yock :
said by brandon See Profile :

said by yock See Profile :

Don't block the technology, block the illegal use of it. I'm incredibly disappointed by this decision.
They are. If you have a legitimate use for it, then you can speak with IT and have the block removed.
I fundamentally oppose assumption of guilt, so we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.
And before you say "they should go after the offenders, rather than requiring the legitimates to request unblocking," just think of the logistics. If 99.99% of the population of the university uses p2p illegally, and 0.005% can use something besides p2p to do their work, then unblocking for the other 0.005% of the people who REQUIRE p2p would not be hard at all.
Sounds like the offenders should be easy to find, if they'd try.
--
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge
"The opposite of war isn't peace, it's creation."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18236389 Thu, 26 Apr 2007 09:18:14 EDT Re: This will not matter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18236354 TKJunkMail :
said by osrk See Profile :

said by patcat88 See Profile :

You mean VPNing through a non-uni relay to hide P2P traffic?
No any sort of encryption no matter how weak will get by these devices. Torpark and the standard encryption on bittorrent easily gets by these devices and allows people to use bittorrent again.

This is more like a facade than anything, it will have no lasting impact.
They will just go after those workstations exhibiting massive amounts of traffic. They will get them even if they use encryption to try and hide. Nothing the students do will hide the amount of traffic generated by P2P.
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said by yock See Profile :

Don't block the technology, block the illegal use of it. I'm incredibly disappointed by this decision.
They are. If you have a legitimate use for it, then you can speak with IT and have the block removed.

And before you say "they should go after the offenders, rather than requiring the legitimates to request unblocking," just think of the logistics. If 99.99% of the population of the university uses p2p illegally, and 0.005% can use something besides p2p to do their work, then unblocking for the other 0.005% of the people who REQUIRE p2p would not be hard at all.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18236343 Thu, 26 Apr 2007 09:06:45 EDT Re: More colleges should do this http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18236325 yock : Don't block the technology, block the illegal use of it. I'm incredibly disappointed by this decision.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18236325 Thu, 26 Apr 2007 08:59:22 EDT Re: More colleges should do this http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18235022 Thaler : Er...most colleges already do port-block most P2P services, even at the cost of legitimate file transfers. For instance, using BT to grab a copy of OpenOffice behind the university is really a no-go (unless I like the trickle of ~2kbps!).

Its the university's network, and so its their rules as to how users can access the internet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18235022 Wed, 25 Apr 2007 23:26:40 EDT Re: This will not matter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18234823 osrk :
said by patcat88 See Profile :

You mean VPNing through a non-uni relay to hide P2P traffic?
No any sort of encryption no matter how weak will get by these devices. Torpark and the standard encryption on bittorrent easily gets by these devices and allows people to use bittorrent again.

This is more like a facade than anything, it will have no lasting impact.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18234823 Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:58:58 EDT Re: This will not matter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18234414 patcat88 : You mean VPNing through a non-uni relay to hide P2P traffic?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18234414 Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:57:49 EDT Re: More colleges should do this http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18234156 devrandom : If true, i'm assuming that they used the RIAA as a scapegoat of sorts to stop people from screaming at them. Making a problem somebody else's problem is a better excuse than "we don't have the money for your downloading habits" I think.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18234156 Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:25:54 EDT Re: More colleges should do this http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18233836 DiscardedVet :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

The RIAA may have just given them the excuse they needed to keep their network costs from spiraling ever higher.
.
I don't see where the uni would need an excuse, it's their network. If bandwidth per application exceeds normalcy and average, they can kill it simply due to burden cost. It's their call on their network.
--
Bush is the Prez.... Think Patriot Act II.... This outspoken dissident.... In jail I'll be soon.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18233836 Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:22:00 EDT Re: This will not matter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18233628 Bill :
said by osrk See Profile :

Unfortunately for them it just gave all the geeks on the campus an excuse to talk to all the hot girls on how they could still download their favorite episode of "Grey's Anatomy" via enabling the encryption on there favorite bit torrent.
Maybe the university blocking P2P is a good thing then ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18233628 Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:33:23 EDT This will not matter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18233505 osrk : The University of Connecticut all did this earlier this year. They set up packet header sniffing devices on the edge of the network to inspect each packet header. Unfortunately for them it just gave all the geeks on the campus an excuse to talk to all the hot girls on how they could still download their favorite episode of "Grey's Anatomy" via enabling the encryption on there favorite bit torrent. Of course there were more modifications than that but I'll leave you to your imagination. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18233505 Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:09:43 EDT Re: More colleges should do this http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18233490 Siryak : I am guessing that it will be fairly difficult to block P2P. There is always some kind of a workaround.
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And it will still be there for those with a legitimate need.
Although P2P file-sharing can sometimes be used for legitimate reasons, any use of P2P software on the campus network may result in Internet access being disabled under this new policy. Individuals who need to use P2P software for legitimate purposes can discuss their needs with the IT Service Desk.
Here is the University's FAQ on the subject:
»technology.ohio.edu/help/blocked-faq.html
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