 gatorkramKaBOOM BabyPremium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
kudos:2
 ·Suddenlink
| Junk fax laws If you ask me, they should be able to control who links to them, and sue anyone who links to them if they don't want them to. How is this any different than someone calling up your fax machine, and wasting your paper? Just replace paper with bandwidth. It's not like people don't have to pay for their bandwidth just like paper. And I'd support them even further if it could be shown someone was linking to them for the sole intent of wasting said bandwidth.
How can you be against this logic?
What if people were linking to your site? What if the bandwidth useage was costing you tons of money, or even crashing your site? I'd be willing to bet you'd be unhappy.
It's funny, I was just thinking of this the other day, as it pertains to the digg site. What if someone diggs your site, that they just happened to find by chance, and millions of people are now finding it, and nailing it without you wanting them to?
The internet is a public place, but it doesn't mean you want uninvited people knocking on your door. Just like you don't want people wasting your fax paper to show you their ads.
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Give me bandwidth or give me death! |
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 JulioBachatero y Que?Premium
join:2003-03-19
Brooklyn, NY
kudos:1 | said by gatorkram:The internet is a public place, You just pretty much crushed their defense 
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jsouthJsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS | reply to gatorkram
That is the worst argument I have heard in a while. Their bandwidth is not used by linking. Only by clicking on that link and visiting their homepage is it used. You would think that they would want people to link to their homepage even if it crashes once in a while. That shows that people are interested in their company. As far as the Digg site example, what I would do is add more capacity so hopefully I can get new subscribers.
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Bush bashing is old. How about more solutions instead? |
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gatorkramKaBOOM BabyPremium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Suddenlink
| reply to Julio
said by Julio:said by gatorkram:The internet is a public place, You just pretty much crushed their defense Just because you have a site on the public internet, doesn't mean you want millions of people coming to your site. Even worse if they are only coming to be vindictive.
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Give me bandwidth or give me death! |
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gatorkramKaBOOM BabyPremium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Suddenlink
| reply to jsouth
said by jsouth:That is the worst argument I have heard in a while. Their bandwidth is not used by linking. Only by clicking on that link and visiting their homepage is it used. You would think that they would want people to link to their homepage even if it crashes once in a while. That shows that people are interested in their company. As far as the Digg site example, what I would do is add more capacity so hopefully I can get new subscribers. Just because they don't use the link, doesn't mean it can't be used later to cause harm. If I don't want you giving out my fax number, but you give it out to a bunch of people, whats the difference?
They should have a right to control their own name. Maybe that is what it is about for them. I only tried to show an example why they might not want people posting links to their site.
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Give me bandwidth or give me death! |
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| reply to gatorkram
If you don't want millions coming to your site, then don't make it public. Have a home page that is nothing but a login screen, with the bare bones code being sent. Problem solved. |
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JulioBachatero y Que?Premium
join:2003-03-19
Brooklyn, NY
kudos:1 | reply to gatorkram
said by gatorkram:said by Julio:said by gatorkram:The internet is a public place, You just pretty much crushed their defense Just because you have a site on the public internet, doesn't mean you want millions of people coming to your site. Even worse if they are only coming to be vindictive. Don't want people to come? Don't put it online.
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gatorkramKaBOOM BabyPremium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Suddenlink
| reply to Necronomikro
said by Necronomikro:If you don't want millions coming to your site, then don't make it public. Have a home page that is nothing but a login screen, with the bare bones code being sent. Problem solved. Just because a site is on a public network, doesn't mean it's a known address, and that you want everyone and their brother to know about it. Much like someones phone number being unlisted. It's still on the public phone network, and anyone who knows the number can call.
As for having to adapt my site so people don't abuse it like in this example. What a bunch of crap. Why should I have to design my website in any manner, than how I want to design it. If I don't want my url given out, it should be my right.
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Give me bandwidth or give me death! |
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gatorkramKaBOOM BabyPremium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Suddenlink
| reply to Julio
said by Julio:Don't want people to come? Don't put it online. I want people to come, but only the people I want to know about it. I fail to understand how people don't understand.
If it's my website, and my url, and my name that I am paying for, I should be able to control who uses it, and how.
If I own www.somewebsite.com and I don't want you using it, then I should be able to sue you if you do.
In this example, I am just talking about the url itself, not the website it might link to.
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Give me bandwidth or give me death! |
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| reply to gatorkram
said by gatorkram:Just because a site is on a public network, doesn't mean it's a known address, and that you want everyone and their brother to know about it. Much like someones phone number being unlisted. It's still on the public phone network, and anyone who knows the number can call. As for having to adapt my site so people don't abuse it like in this example. What a bunch of crap. Why should I have to design my website in any manner, than how I want to design it. If I don't want my url given out, it should be my right. It's plain to see you are not ready to play on the Internet. So why don't you hide your website, that you don't want anyone to visit anyway, on the LAN in your bomb shelter, accessible only to you, and your closest associates, and close the time-locked bomb-proof door behind you... |
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 jjoshuaPremium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
kudos:1
1 edit | reply to gatorkram
Cingular is welcome to check the referring url and deny a response as they see fit.
They have the tools to implement their own policies.
If they don't restrict their content then it's their problem. No one forced them to set up a server on the interweb.
»www.cingular.com |
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bmn? ? ?Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus | reply to gatorkram
said by gatorkram:If I own www.somewebsite.com and I don't want you using it, then I should be able to sue you if you do. 1. When you register a domain name, such as www.somewebsite.com, you technically do NOT own it. You are paying for the rights to use that domain which is why you have to renew periodically.
2. Your argument that you should be able to sue someone for looking at something you don't want them to look at when it is posted on a public forum will hold exactly ZERO muster in court. Good luck suing anyone. Once you put something that's publicly accessible out there, without protections like passwords, you give up the right to go after people for looking at it without your permission.
You need to learn how things work on the internet and drop the childish sue-happy attitude...
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 pogPremium
join:2004-06-03
Kihei, HI
 ·Hawaiian Telcom
| reply to gatorkram
said by gatorkram:... If it's my website, and my url, and my name that I am paying for, I should be able to control who uses it, and how. ... You ARE able... theoretically. It depends on your technical skills, what platform/software your site uses, etc.
You have to TAKE control, though. You can't just leave the door wide open and then complain when people pop in to have a look around. That's not how it works.
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Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| reply to gatorkram
I can see how you could compare your website to a fax machine. Both have consumables (in terms of money). One is bandwidth that you pay for and the other is paper and a phone line. However you're analogy is incorrect in that the internet is public domain where-as a fax line is by default "private".
The difference however is that internet is public and a fax machine is private. Think of it like this. The internet is like public streets and the website is like a house or business. Some sites are like open shopping malls where you can go wherever you want. Other sites are like locked houses where you can only see a door and maybe a few other things on the outside unless you have a key and permission to enter.
Now, the fax machine is inside your house or your business. It isn't in that public realm. While you may know it's phone number and have the means to call it you must have permission or grant "public" permission (like posting the fax number generically). You also have the right to tell senders to your fax machine you do not want their spammy content. This is not determined by technology per-say but instead by law.
In the end law says you have to have some form of permission to send faxes to a recipient. There are no such laws (at least generically) to require you to have permission before viewing a web site. Based on this your analogy doesn't really hold up and you as a website owner agree that you are responsible for whom can see your website content based on your website configuration, not based on a set of laws (as with the fax machine).
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| reply to gatorkram
If you don't want to play with open public networks and take the necessary precautions to keep EVERYONE from accessing it (ridiculous, if you ask me, but, whatever), then don't play with it at all. I, for one, would love to get extra traffic, but, oh well. |
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| reply to gatorkram
Routing. Drop all packets not from IP address. Problem solved, voila! now only you, and whoever you MANUALLY add can access it. No, I will not even try to get into the technical aspects of it.
As for cingular: they're a public site, and they want customers to be able to access it, they should know that linking is NOT copyrightable: all it is is basically an address. ZOMG YOU CANNOT POST THE NAME, ADDRESS, OR PHONE NUMBER TO MY COMPANY. NEVERMIND THAT I WANT TO STAY IN BUSINESS, AND THE INFORMATION IS PUBLICLY AVAILABLE!
Idjit. |
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 na
@blueyonder.co.uk | reply to gatorkram
So you want people to be sued from visiting your website if you don't want them to? If you don't want people to visit your web site password protect it - simple!
I know its the American way to sue anyone for pretty much anything, but suing someone for visiting your website when you don't want them to is completely stupid. What happens if they come across your website by mistake. For example if someone wants to go to a website but anciently misspelled it. Then that's it, you'll be sued!
How old are 7? 8? |
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gatorkramKaBOOM BabyPremium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Suddenlink
| reply to gatorkram
Wow, everyone likes to make the debate personal don't they? LOL. Oh well.
I never said I had a website I didn't want people on, I was trying to give an example.
And to the person who asked how old I am, give me a break, what does me being 39 or 9 have to do with anything? I'm 39 by the way.
All humans, of all ages have almost the same equal ability to make an ass out of themselves, be them 12 or 80.
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Give me bandwidth or give me death! |
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 tschmidtPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:5
·Fairpoint Commun..
 ·Hollis Hosting
| reply to gatorkram
That is an interesting argument and not without merit but is is not a very apt analogy. A more precise one would be prohibiting a company from publishing your already public Fax number. All linking does it provide a sort of directory service.
It is the person accessing the referring site, making use if the link, that connects to the destination of the link.
You are correct bandwidth is not free but its cost is infinitesimal compared to paper cost consumed by an inbound fax. Not to mention the tremendous difference between circuit switched phone network and routed Internet. As others have posted the site owner has many tools available to control how much bandwidth a particular visitor uses.
My personal take in this is much the same as my perception of the RIAA and MPAA. These sorts of tactics show fundamental ignorance about how the new world of information technology works and more importantly annoy potential customers. Articles like this make me think twice about ever using the company's services.
/Tom |
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 james
join:2001-02-26
CWCville USA | reply to gatorkram
HAHAHA! Wow... I really dont know what to say... In this case it is OBVIOUS that they want everyone to know about their site, otherwise they wouldnt A: have it as such an obvious url, and B: spend millions of dollars to have it beamed into millions and millions of homes every day by way of T.V. adverts. Besides that, if you dont want people seeing your site, put a password on it. Only an utter idiot would claim that they have a right to stop others from linking to them (hotlinking on the otherhand is definitely a no-no). |
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