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Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
reply to CylonRed

Re: Vonage needs to realize

said by CylonRed:

To get decent VOIP I would have to upgrade my DSL and spend more money per month...
Holy carp, just how slow is your DSL service? Codecs have improved a lot since the original 56kbps ISDN service came out. If your DSL service is slower than the slowest BRI, then you need to go shopping! Maybe what you're getting is free. If that's the case, consider the cost of monthly POTS compared to the cost of the lowest tier of pay-for DSL service. Surely you can find one that's a better deal than $50 a month for just a dial tone?

And what about cable?

...I would have to get a UPS to keep the router and VOIP hardware running during a power outage (hopefully it is short)
From what I've read on these pages, some of the bundled VoIP services have hardware with built-in battery backup. You could look into that option, or spend the princely sum of $30 for APC's smallest UPS (even less for other brands).

Don't you have a UPS for your computer? Seems to me that anyone who experiences frequent power outages would be wise to spend a few bucks protecting their big electronic investments from all of the transients that come down the AC line every time power goes out, and every time it's restored. A true cheapskate isn't penny wise and pound foolish!

...and heaven forbid my CLEC has any issue that causes the line to go down...
That would leave you SOL when it comes to POTS too. What's your point?

I personally do NOT trust the 911 service as well and with 2 young kids - that is a deal breaker for me.
I don't see what your beef with 911 services has to do with this.

It is beginning to look like you simply aren't ready to move up to the 19th century, with its newfangled electricity and telephony. That's your right. But isn't it a little ironic that you're using a 21st century Internet to rail against them?

Not to mention - I would not save huge amounts - we don't do a lot of long distance calling and if I do then it is on the cell.
Whoa there! Back up a minute. You have a cellphone? All this time, you've been dreaming up ways that VoIP could leave you stranded, and you own a cellphone???

Oh brother!

I smell a mega-Bell shill...


CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

My dsl is 1.5 down and 384 up and I also game online.

TW will not ever get my business again - ever if I have anything to say about it for many reasons...

I have no UPS for my PC - hell - most of the outlets are not grounded and I have yet to lose a PC due to a power outage in the 8 years we have been here.

We have NEVER had out pots go out during a blackout. The ONLY time it has gone out is when we had an internal line issue. I will be ready when teh problems I have with it can be solved.

And yet as I mentioned there are places were cell phones DON'T work and they have to be powered as well - nice selective reading there as this point was alredy made by me.

911 sometimes works for cells and VOIP - it has to work 100% of the time when I call - that is they have to know where the call is coming from and the 911 on POTs does just that. There have been issues in the past with VOIP and cell 911 (recent article about it as well - issues with cell phone 911) and with 2 small kids - it is unacceptable that maybe it will work with cell or VOIP when I alredy have somethign that works 100%
--
Brian

"Some people are like Slinkies...
Not really good for anything......
But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs."


Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL

said by CylonRed:

My dsl is 1.5 down and 384 up and I also game online.
So in fact you do not need to upgrade your DSL service to be able to use VoIP. Strike one.

I have no UPS for my PC - hell - most of the outlets are not grounded and I have yet to lose a PC due to a power outage in the 8 years we have been here.
That means that statistically, your computer is due for a total failure. Is it me, or are you actually proud of the poor condition of your home wiring?

We have NEVER had out pots go out during a blackout. The ONLY time it has gone out is when we had an internal line issue.
That same local loop that also carries your DSL has remained rock-solid, despite your alarmist claim. Strike two.

And yet as I mentioned there are places were cell phones DON'T work and they have to be powered as well - nice selective reading there as this point was alredy made by me.
When you neglect to maintain your home wiring, neglect to keep your cellphone charged, neglect to prepare for any adverse conditions, it's not any fault in VoIP technology.

And when you say "there are places were cell phones DON'T work", are you implying that your home has some ability to move into those places? Before, you cited your cellphone as a perfectly suitable alternative to other home phone service for long-distance calls. Strike three.

911 sometimes works for cells and VOIP...
...and POTS. Your local 911 call center is the same one for all 911 calls. Strike four.

...it has to work 100% of the time...
That's a mighty tall order in a world where 99.999% (five nines) is considered the best available. For someone who will not buy a UPS or improve his home's wiring to at least make it meet minimum safety standards, your unrealistic expectations are doubly ironic.

...that is they have to know where the call is coming from and the 911 on POTs does just that.
News flash: 911 call centers don't use POTS! They use big fat trunk circuits that are most certainly multiplexed digitally, and most probably fiber-based.

My money says that what you're really trying to do is infer that POTS is the only phone service capable of relaying your location to the 911 call center. That is patently false. VoIP providers also know where you live. And unlike wireline phone companies, they allow you to modify the address as needed. So when your house goes on another trip, you can update your location.

Cellular does one better. They allow the 911 call center to take the GPS coordinates that your phone sends them, and dispatch emergency services to your exact location. So even when your home is in transit from place to place, they can still locate you. Strike five.

...and with 2 small kids...
That appeal to sentiment has worn through already. I hope that these kids are fictitious, for their sake.

I alredy have somethign that works 100%
No, you don't. Strike six.


CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

4 edits

Actually - I do have something that works 100% - sorry to burst your bubble and my kids are just fine... I don't believe VOIP continues to work when there is no modem working on the line and no internet connection

Glad it works for YOU right now - for me - it does not. More power to you if it does. You may not deem them to be valid but - you are not me and I am not you - neat eh? VOIP is still in its infancy and I generally do not jump on the infancy stages - I think those that have Vonage are sweating that detail right now.

»www.ironwooddailyglobe.com/0502e911.htm
»www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/20···s-06.asp - at least they are up to 70%...

quote:
"Location accuracy varies depending on cellular providers, location of cellular callers and the technology cellular providers use, he said.

Many students said they had never worried about it.

"I always thought they could locate you if you had that GPS option," said Andrew Naderi (senior-life science)."
»www.ky3.com/news/7294191.html - Missouri has issues in both cell and land but thankfully I don't live there.

»www.kfoxtv.com/news/13238711/det···psp=news

Thankfully cell 911 has no issues and it is nearly perfect...

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voip
quote:
Emergency calls

The nature of IP makes it difficult to locate network users geographically. Emergency calls, therefore, cannot easily be routed to a nearby call center, and are impossible on some VoIP systems. Sometimes, VoIP systems may route emergency calls to a non-emergency phone line at the intended department. In the US, at least one major police department has strongly objected to this practice as potentially endangering the public.[3]

Moreover, in the event that the caller is unable to give an address, emergency services may be unable to locate them in any other way. Following the lead of mobile phone operators, several VoIP carriers are already implementing a technical work-around. For instance, one large VoIP carrier requires the registration of the physical address where the VoIP line will be used. When you dial the emergency number for your country, they will route it to the appropriate local system. They also maintain their own emergency call center that will take non-routable emergency calls (made, for example, from a software based service that is not tied to any particular physical location) and then will manually route your call once learning your physical location.

The United States government had set a deadline, requiring VoIP carriers to implement E911; however, the deadline is being appealed by several of the leading VoIP companies.
If you have proof that none of the above items are issues with VOIP or cell - please provide links and proof please.

You also seem to be under the impression that I do not ever plan on getting VOIP - it is something I look at every now and then and re-evaluate. Major problem is - it will not save me bundles of money - my land line phone is $39-41/month including long distance - if I got VOIP via my ISP - I could save almost $5/month. I can get a lot bigger bang for the buck by paying off school loans and car loans faster and saving more when grocery shopping.
--
Brian

"Some people are like Slinkies...
Not really good for anything......
But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs."

Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL

said by CylonRed:

Actually - I do have something that works 100% - sorry to burst your bubble
Actually it's your bubble. You're the one claiming to have 100% uptime. And after admitting two whole weeks of downtime, no less! Your success as a con artist is far below 100%.

I don't believe VOIP continues to work when there is no modem working on the line and no internet connection
I don't believe that POTS continues to work when the local loop is severed.

Glad it works for YOU right now - for me - it does not.
Obviously it doesn't work when you don't have it.

It's one thing to speak from experience. Your talking points don't carry that authority.

VOIP is still in its infancy...
Your "infant" is a teenager now. In Internet years, that's quite mature.

I think those that have Vonage are sweating (alleged "infancy" of VoIP) right now.
So sorry to ruin your attempt at misdirection, but there's this Verizon v. Vonage litigation...ever hear of it? Because you're posting right in the middle of a discussion of the same.

(No, I'm not going to waste my time on those cherry-picked, non-authoritative, misleading and out-of-date citations.)


CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

1 edit

I never claimed 2 weeks of no phone (POTS service) - obviously I was NOT referring to my internet connection since I am not using it for the phone.

I can't remember the last time in my 40+ years that the POTS line where I lived was severed. Certainly not in the last 20 years...

And yet we have 2 different locations, ISP's, LILEC/CLEC/cable companies/systems but you want to tell me my experience will be yours - sorry - I don't buy that. Yes - I can say with the knowledge I have - it does not work for me right now. You do not have the authority to tell me any different since I am not you and vice versa.

Teen? Nah - not to the consumer.

No misdirection and yes - I know where I am posting. I have a former co-worker sweating out if he will have Vonage at the end of the year

Out of date? All recent stories and I like the fact you don't want to bother - tells me everything I need to know right there.
--
Brian

"Some people are like Slinkies...
Not really good for anything......
But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs."


Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL

Looks like you're out of excuses, CylonRed. And frankly, your attempts to BS your way out of the corner that you painted yourself into are pitiful.

Sorry, Mr. Verizon Shill, but this Vonage customer isn't fooled by your scare tactics. Unlike ye olde monopoly, I have my pick of VoIP providers. So even if your masters succeed in killing one, there are plenty to take its place.

Let Verizon sue. Every new suit increases the possibility that the case will go before a judge who will notice that the Verizon patents amount to simple database queries. When that day comes, I'll be laughing all the way to the bank.