FutureMon
OW My Eyes
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2000-10-05
Colorado Springs, CO
clubs: 
| reply to nightdesigns
Re: Homeowners: Mortgage Interest, Property Tax & Uncle Sam
For my 2006 taxes, I was able to deduct about $49k for my interest payments. And I didn't even include my property taxes...cause I couldn't find the dern paperwork fast enough so I filed with the lower numbers.
(One of the loan programs I was in for about 6 months was an interest-only deal). I refi-ed out of that into a more standard 30 year fixed (more like a 30 year fixed amortized over 40 with a baloon due @ 30). Obviously I plan on refinancing out of this one or selling before that.
Just ran some customized comps...
10 properties: (Avg SOLD price / avg sq. ft) = avg $ per sq. ft * my sq. ft = potential list price) and I came up with $600k. Since it's based on actuals, not LIST price I think I can play with it a little bit due to my properties "extras" and get what I've wanted which is at least $650k. Wife finally decided to agree with me on moving out of state, so we're putting things in motion to sell. I'll take the profit and put it down on a foreclosure in Colorado, get a conforming fixed 30 and cut my payment in half for a larger place.
- FM
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Undisputed BBR Karaoke Champion! Care to challenge me? |
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jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA
| reply to No_Strings
said by No_Strings  :A free market addresses most of ills you mention. "Irresponsible" borrowers lose their investments. Lenders who take on too much risk lose money. Investors in REITs or lenders lose share value. this all happens in spades, and all at once, when a recession hits. if it's piecemeal, i don't think enough people take notice (even when it hits THEM).
What governmental inefficiencies would be excised by a recession? What individual priorities would be changed? People need to earn a living, eat, buy a home and save for the future. Governments need to self-sustain. Recession = less money for both = more debt for all and more hardship for those least able/willing to cope. inefficiencies like funding new highway extension instead of more effective public transport where it can be used the most. inefficiencies like having multiple departments overseeing the same spending project. ear marks, pork barreling, using federal and state agencies to enforce private or civil actions, general bloat/ineffective incumbents. if the recession is bad enough, government will be put under a microscope (or possibly given too much power... hmmm.) and i would hope the chumps would be voted out.
individual priorities: people would be forced to make better choices about where they live and work, what they drive, what they eat, how much they save, and would have to make harder decisions about their future.
you're probably right about the hardship hitting the least able the hardest.. but i'm not sure they aren't a proportionally appropriate part of the problem. and i think they have the most to gain from a reorganization.
Not sure how New Orleans fits into this at all. no imagination. NO is an experiment about how well both public and private funding/labor can rebuild an infrastructure hit by some critical, general failure. theirs was across the board, where a recession might not reach as far as actual physical destruction. i think the approaches would have to be similar if there was a big enough recession. the question is: will what they come up with be substantively better than NO pre katrina (which might mean a much smaller city). if not, then maybe a recession would spell doom.
the real question is: do you want a recession where things might get a bit hairy but some dramatic changes for the better might occur, or do you want to slowly reach the same low point through application of same-old same-old and hope the bounce will somehow materialize then?
The only way to build a more solid structure is to not build on swampy land below sea level.
right. what's the best way to make that point to a society of financial swamp dwellers?
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A man compounded of law and gospel is able to cheat a whole country with his religion and then destroy them under color of law. -Ben Franklin |
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No_Strings
Premium,Mod
join:2001-11-22
The OC
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Efficient
1 edit | There's a punitive undertone in your theme - "A recession will show 'em. Being out of work will make them come around to my way of thinking."
While I appreciate your idealism (and some of your ideals), the notion that a speed bump in the economy would somehow be a catalyst for more efficient government, better transportation projects or spur people to act differently about commuting is ... well, naive at best.
A robust economy will support public transportation projects or alternative fuels or group tree hugs or non-toxic rat traps or whatever else your cause is. What's lacking is public support. In a recession, you will lack both the funds and have a public far more concerned about the lower layers of Maslow's hierarchy than lofty social ideals.
edit: Forgot the New Orleans part.
New Orleans has been a cesspool of public corruption and government inefficiency for decades at the expense of its poorest citizens. Now, it's just a cesspool, degenerating into a crimefest that's being paved over by tourism promotion and sunny reports of progress. A broad US recession or a local one would be nothing like what is going on in New Orleans. A more logical comparison would be a large-scale natural disaster - the big one. Again, I think that's punitive. Biblical, vengeful God stuff. Returning everyone to a primitive state to teach them a lesson and build a new society is right out of Pol Pot's playbook. |
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CurtesyFlush
Bababooey, fafafooey, tatatoothy.
Premium
join:2002-08-23
Fontana, CA | The Bunster is high fiving you from the LBC for that Maslow reference.
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Life Member, NRA and CRPA. |
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No_Strings
Premium,Mod
join:2001-11-22
The OC | Shh. You'll blow my dumb Pennsylvania farm boy persona. |
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CurtesyFlush
Bababooey, fafafooey, tatatoothy.
Premium
join:2002-08-23
Fontana, CA | No slick, you did with that First Class phones ticket admission.
I know how hard that test was.
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Life Member, NRA and CRPA. |
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jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA
| reply to No_Strings
well, the public corruption in NO was part and parcel of the general failure. again, i see it as an experiment: if the corruption lasts or gets worse, then that's a data point for crisis rebuilding being nothing particularly useful to hope for.
and i don't think "you try the socratic method only for so long before you start itching for the clue bat" as a punitive "undertone".
wouldn't it be great if only the red states had to pony up for the national debt? well, unfortunately, the closest thing to that is a general recession. or, that's the closest the citizens will get to really, personally owning the national debt.
and, in the end, i'm not a believer in maslow's pyramid and certainly not pol pot's purification. but i also don't think very highly of baby stepping an irresponsible population through self-wrought suffering. historically, the US has found ways to get through wide-spread recessions better off on the other end. appreciably so. we've seen how badly the nation reacts to more localized issues (of which NO might be one, it's a very interesting data point), so maybe it HAS to be wide spread. hmm, but how much did anyone learn from the dot com bubble pop?
ug, now i truly AM babbling. good night.
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A man compounded of law and gospel is able to cheat a whole country with his religion and then destroy them under color of law. -Ben Franklin |
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cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA
| reply to nightdesigns
Hmmm, having less money is going to allow me to eat better? That's a rich one. The reality is it will force people to buy the less expensive, less healthy and more environmentally devasting mass produced crap that is sold in the markets.
The same would be true of other choices as well. You would see less new cars on the road as people can't afford the loans to buy them further increasing pollution. Since housing costs would remain out of whack more and more people would be stuck commuting from the suburbs further increasing the problem.
You idea of a reccession is just as utopian as the one you want to take the clue bat to. |
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jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA
| reply to nightdesigns
not true.
having less money might require people to buy groceries and eat "made" food rather than fast food. less fast food all the way around would be great for everyone. starbucks would drop franchises, etc.
any new car, even a prius, causes more harm to the environment in it's manufacture than almost any reasonably well upkept economy car puts out in it's lifetime of use. people buying less new cars is overall a good thing. people using cars less is much better.
rather than people commuting from the suburbs, they would either have to rent closer in to town (how are they going to afford the gas and the mortgage?), take public transport and drop the second car, or get a job closer to home. the squeeze would get them to change one way or another. those that won't would go bankrupt by ignoring the signs.
i can see where you're coming from, but i don't think you're thinking about as deep a recession as i am. we're talking about something on the scale of a Katrina, but in the financial markets (though possibly only in housing and those markets immediately adjacent, like residence construction, loans, etc).
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A man compounded of law and gospel is able to cheat a whole country with his religion and then destroy them under color of law. -Ben Franklin |
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sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA
1 edit | I've been sitting back and watching where this conversation is going and I can't hold my tongue anymore. I'm getting a little nauseous. Next thing you will be telling us is we just need a strong leader to create your little utopia. Someone to force people to do the things they don't want to do, but that you in your infinite wisdom KNOW are the right things. Maybe we could call our new leader Uncle Joe or chairman something, or something equally colorful. The important thing is to force people kicking and screaming into lifestyles that meet your idea of utopia no matter how much they hate it.
You usually make a lot more sense than this.
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT--
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aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA | Yeah, what he ^ said. Plus Starschmucks dosen't franchise... |
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jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA
| reply to sholling
that's not quite what i think i'm advocating. and i don't see some righteous moral authority figure playing a role in this: it would probably just be another inefficiency. you guys might be right in that a deep recession would harm too many responsible livelihoods to ever end up resulting in something "better", but i guess i'm getting very pessimistic about the slow change approach. not enough people care, because they think (correctly, so far) they can get by without caring. how do you change that without affecting almost everyone?
i wonder how many houses in NO are being rebuilt with studs every 3ft instead of every 16in.
anyway, i understand your problems with my idea. what better ways are there to teach people about long term affects of short term rationalizations? (not rhetorical)
i'm not personally spread eagled to the winds of change, financially, but i'm not very insulated either. a deep recession would probably mean i'd have to move to find work, which would mean taking a huge hit on the sale price of our house. that, or a career change (on the scale of blue collar to white collar).
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A man compounded of law and gospel is able to cheat a whole country with his religion and then destroy them under color of law. -Ben Franklin |
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sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA
| The inefficiency of rebuilding NO is yet another government fiasco. How many people and business do you think would choose to rebuild on land that sits below sea level if this wasn't a government bailout with a promise of endless future bailouts? Darn few! I don't have a huge problem with helping out with a 10 cents on the dollar (land value only) deal for those that will walk away and move to higher ground. Those with insurance won't be that badly hurt and those without really shouldn't get anything. Let the flooded areas go back to being wetlands.
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT--
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Kibbles
Premium
join:1999-07-31
Mission Viejo, CA
| reply to nightdesigns
I found this...usefull if you want to see what your neighbors/boss  is paying.
»tax.ocgov.com/tcweb/search_page.···:05%20PM |
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