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CleanGene
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join:2008-04-09
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reply to sturmvogel
Re: end of the beginning, that's all

said by sturmvogel See Profile :

You know, no taxation without representation was in the beginning just a principle also.
I rather doubt this particular principle will inspire an armed revolution


sturmvogel
Obama '08

join:2008-02-07
Houston, TX

said by CleanGene See Profile :

said by sturmvogel See Profile :

You know, no taxation without representation was in the beginning just a principle also.
I rather doubt this particular principle will inspire an armed revolution
Maybe not, but will certainly bring an army of lawyers.


Nerdtalker
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clubs:

said by sturmvogel See Profile :

Maybe not, but will certainly bring an army of lawyers.
And, as we've seen, an army of angry customers/subscribers.


funchords
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4 edits
reply to funchords
OpEd by Commissioner Robert M. McDowell - my response

With recent reports indicating that some votes in the Comcast case are already in, FCC Commissioner Robert McDowell writes in the Washington Post that the FCC should rely upon private collaboration instead of punishing Comcast for violating its Network Neutrality policy.

Like a befuddled victim who doesn't understand how a judge could find my attacker as "Not Guilty," I stand dumbstruck. Comcast was caught red-handed, their weapon pointed directly at our very freedoms, specifically the freedom to connect to whomever we want to using the programs we choose!

Robert McDowell, a jurist on this case owing to his position as FCC commissioner, prefers collaboration between private industry and public entities that have defined how the Internet works for a long time. We all support open and free governance of the Internet. But anything that affects our global network ought to be done in the light of day, not in secret backroom deals between Sandvine and network operators. And while I agree with the Commissioner that engineers ought to solve engineering problems, they need enforcement bodies like the FCC to step in when U.S. providers act nefariously -- just as Comcast was caught doing.

What McDowell ignores is that it was a private collaboration in the form of an agreement between Sandvine and Comcast to sell Internet access and its associated bandwidth and then use secret technology to interrupt some of that that access and take back some of that bandwidth that it sold.

In November 2007, Free Press and Public Knowledge, with the support of several other industry groups and individuals, filed a formal complaint They charged that the cable provider was violating the FCC’s 2005 Policy Statement – principles protecting consumers’ unfettered access to the open Internet. In the ensuing testimony and evidence, the following were all alleged and proven beyond all reasonable doubt:

    •Comcast's actions violated the FCC's policy that "consumers are entitled to access the lawful Internet content of their choice." In independent tests by myself, the Associated Press, and the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), we demonstrated that if a unique file was available on certain peer-to-peer (P2P) network nodes located on Comcast's network, that Comcast users could not transfer the content. It was completely blocked. If the file was not unique to Comcast nodes, then Comcast's users could only freely access the content only from the non-Comcast sources.

    •Comcast's actions violated the FCC's policy that "consumers are entitled to run applications and use services of their choice." I presented reproducible test cases and results that showed that Comcast was applying an Application-Layer (Layer-7) Deep Packet Inspection device to change the way that the application normally operates. In effect, Comcast was not allowing the application to run as it was designed to run; it secretly hid a device inside their network that changed the normal operations of the applications that I chose.

    •Comcast's actions violated the FCC's policy that "consumers are entitled to connect their choice of legal devices that do not harm the network." Devices like the Vudu and Myka rely on the BitTorrent protocol in order to work, and both devices are certainly used to access legal content.

    •Comcast's actions violated the FCC's policy that "consumers are entitled to competition among network providers, application and service providers, and content providers." Comcast was discriminating against several targeted peer-to-peer networks. The Associated Press reported that attempts to transfer the Bible over the P2P BitTorrent network were blocked, and Richard Bennett still demonstrates that attempts to transfer the Bible over a client-server architecture of a Web site are always successful. This proved that users do not enjoy the benefits of fair competition between P2P applications (such as BitTorrent, Vuze's Azureus, uTorrent, Gnutella, eMule, or Shareaza) and client applications (such as Internet Explorer, Mozilla Firefox, Opera).

Legal experts have weighed in and sustained the FCC's policy, that "the Commission has jurisdiction necessary to ensure that providers of telecommunications for Internet access or Internet Protocol-enabled (IP-enabled) services are operated in a neutral manner."

The jurisdiction, the policy and the violations are clear. Left without legal or technical defense, Comcast has latched onto a footnote to the Policy Statement that allows for "reasonable network management." At least half of the trees killed arguing this case have been felled arguing this subscripted three-word exception. To prevent Comcast from grasping at this straw, I demonstrated that Comcast's management was not reasonable. The blocking was not confined to periods of congestion, but ran 24 hours a day, seven days a week; an assertion denied vehemently by Comcast but supported by tests ran by the Max Planck Institute and ultimately confessed. I showed that not only was it detectable and perceptible, it completely blocked my attempts to upload legal content to users over the Gnutella P2P network. The tests by the AP and EFF also showed that this blocking occurred even when the activity was so small and limited that couldn't possibly harm the network.

The prosecution put Comcast's pathetic trail of tales and shenanigans into the record, which ranged from outright denials of their scheme, to a vague and ultimately inaccurate reference to "reasonable management" that "delays," to diversionary and empty promises to work with the Internet community, to a quasi-admission finally obtained during the cross-examination: that Comcast uses a non-Standard regime that blocks P2P uploads regardless of congestion, that they still think that was reasonable action to take, that they plan to keep doing it for a while, or may switch to another non-Standard scheme with different side-effects still unknown, and that the judges (any judges) are powerless to stop them!

The facts are apparently all in, the closing arguments made. The facts, evidence and the law are clear. So, how can even one jurist find the defendant, Comcast Corporation, "Not Guilty?"

What else do we have to prove? What else does Commissioner McDowell think that Internet users must endure before justice can be served?

With a case so strong, shouldn't we be able to get a unanimous vote?

Robb Topolski

PS: "I did, I did" -- no, we all did. But we really owe a debt to Free Press and Public Knowledge for standing behind the Internet's users on this. Yeah, I did a little of this stuff, but they turned it into something that will make a difference.
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ZuluOne

@prioritynetworks.net
What was his response?


funchords
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((insert sounds of crickets chirping))


funchords
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 reply to funchords
Comcast Case Is A Victory for the Internet (Public Knowledge)

Comcast Case Is A Victory for the Internet - Public Knowledge:
FCC Commissioner Robert McDowell missed that point when he wrote in The Washington Post on July 27 that the better way to handle the Comcast issue was by collaboration over regulation. McDowell wrote: “If we choose regulation over collaboration, we will be setting a precedent by thrusting politicians and bureaucrats into engineering decisions.” Here’s the rub. There is a mechanism for such collaboration. There is an Internet Engineering Task Force, made up of those who understand the inner working of the Internet best. As one of those Net luminaries, David Reed, testified to the FCC at the Cambridge hearing, what Comcast did was outside the bounds of acceptable practice. Collaboration broke down. Privately, some industry executives express nothing but disdain for the IETF, saying that the organization is simply a bunch of engineers with unenforceable standards.

This is where McDowell, in the same op-ed article, got it right: “If they (collaborative groups) can’t reach an agreement – which has never happened – then government could examine the situation and act accordingly.” This was just such a case. Despite the attention paid to Comcast, and the less attention paid to Cox, which is using the same techniques, neither company has stopped doing what it was doing – disrupting the traffic of Internet users for the most spurious of reasons. There have been a series of announcements form Comcast about how the company will work with this company or that to “solve” the problem, but a few words about talking of a potential agreement some day won’t cut it.

(read more)
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TKJunkMail
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Re: Comcast Case Is A Victory for the Internet (Public Knowledge

Here is a MUCH better look at what Martin is doing Re: Comcast & Net Neutrality.

»online.wsj.com/article/SB1217375···145.html

And because not everyone can read WSJ columns, I have attached the full article here:
Martin&FCC_a···iots.pdf 145914 bytes

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funchords
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4 edits
reply to funchords
FCC Decision: Comcast Must Stop P2P Interference and Disclose

Commission Orders Comcast to End Discriminatory Network Management Practices.
News Release: Word | Acrobat
Martin Statement: Word | Acrobat
Copps Statement: Word | Acrobat
Adelstein Statement: Word | Acrobat
Tate Statement: Word | Acrobat
McDowell Statement: Word | Acrobat

(Note -- this is current as of the time posted -- from www.fcc.gov)
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TKJunkMail
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3 edits
Re: FCC Decision: Comcast Must Stop P2P Interference and Disclos

said by funchords See Profile :

Commission Orders Comcast to End Discriminatory Network Management Practices.
News Release: Acrobat
Chairman Martin Statement: Acrobat
Commissioner Copps Statement: Acrobat
Commissioner Adelstein Statement: Acrobat
You left out the 11 page dissection of the order by McDowell.

»www.fcc.gov/comcast-st-mcdowell-080108.pdf
McDowell practically begs Comcast to appeal the order to Federal Court because he felt the order was blatantly illegal and that the FCC had no power to issue it.

Commissioner Tate also voted against it in the 3-2 decision.
»hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/a···86A5.pdf
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funchords
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said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

McDowell practically begs Comcast to appeal the order to Federal Court because he felt the order was blatantly illegal and that the FCC had no power to issue it.

Commissioner Tate also voted against it in the 3-2 decision.
The more he talked, the more uninformed his position sounded. He and I are more politically alike than different, and I was pretty upset at how badly his WashingtonPost OpEd missed the point.

Today's speech tells me that he didn't even understand the technical matters.

As to the legal matters, I have no earthly idea. Broadband is so misconstrued in the law, a simple legal quirk could make him right. It COULD be a sign of a real problem that five FCC commissioners can't agree on the law in this case, but it also could be a sign that McDowell is simply politicking by bringing up legal points that really aren't of consequence.

Should Comcast appeal? If there wasn't support for Network Neutrality legislation in Congress before, there would be after Comcast makes an appeal that the FCC is powerless to regulate it.
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ajax25

join:2003-12-10
Colonia, NJ
reply to funchords
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

Maybe there is some hope that that torrent that has been
setting at 50% with two seeders I can never get any
data from for the past week will actually get to complete.


funchords
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If those two seeders are on Comcast, it might (but not until the end of the year, probably).

ajax25

join:2003-12-10
Colonia, NJ
reply to funchords
As of last night 9 downloaders at 90.7%. Nothing moving.
I was able to connect to one of the seeders after
stopping and restarting the torrent. Only 16K of
data got through, but I was able to confirm that that
seeder was on comcast.


funchords
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said by ajax25 See Profile :

As of last night 9 downloaders at 90.7%. Nothing moving.
I was able to connect to one of the seeders after
stopping and restarting the torrent. Only 16K of
data got through, but I was able to confirm that that
seeder was on comcast.
That is the Sandvine behavior.

Delaying, not Blocking my ass.
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italiansmoke

join:2005-07-21
Monroe, MI

I'm a Comcast customer, and I don't know if its my imagination or what... but I think alot of my connection problems(losing sync, unresponsive browser, having to restart modem/router) might have a connection to this.

It seems like whenever I open Limewire, and start downloading some stuff my connection dies. Does this have any relevance? I don't know how Sandvine works, but i've been noticing this when Limewire is running.

Any ideas?


sturmvogel
Obama '08

join:2008-02-07
Houston, TX

reply to funchords
We should "delay" paying Comcast for 3 months. After all, it is to better load balance the finances so that all of our creditors will have a better overall "experience".

We are not blocking payment, just delaying, so it must be right. Right ?
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NormanS
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reply to italiansmoke
said by italiansmoke See Profile :

Any ideas?
Yes: When an ISP employs Sandvine, every problem can be traced back to Sandvine.

Sarcasm aside, loss of sync is a very unlikely side effect of the Sandvine appliance. Forged RST packets have no difference, at the lowest physical layer, from genuine RST packets. No way the modem will react to this Sandvine trick by dropping sync.

I've seen my browser become unresponsive when I let a BitTorrent client saturate my upload. I quickly learned, while on a 128kbps DSL upload, with a standard, bridged modem, that throttling my upload myself lead to a better browsing experience.

However (turning the sarcasm back on), I also know that Sandvine is responsible for the deaths of several of my sister's (she has Comcast Internet) cats!
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
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italiansmoke

join:2005-07-21
Monroe, MI
Hmmm... okay.


funchords
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reply to sturmvogel
said by sturmvogel See Profile :

We should "delay" paying Comcast for 3 months. After all, it is to better load balance the finances so that all of our creditors will have a better overall "experience".

We are not blocking payment, just delaying, so it must be right. Right ?
Priceless! -- Simply Priceless!
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