NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
 ·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to Combat Chuck
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections
said by Combat Chuck  :If you look at what sandvine product can do it's more than just detect outbound spam. It appears to be more of a general purpose firewall that can do deep packet inspection and take action on what it finds, be that P2P use or outbound spam or a worm. Just giving the goblin some feedback on his comments. What Comcast does; well, it is their network, none of us get to say how they run it.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:
| reply to NormanS
said by NormanS :It would cost Comcast less to just block outbound port 25 than to spend a wad of money on monitoring hardware which, by my MTA logs, doesn't seem to be working, anyway; assuming that they are employing Sandvine boxes to monitor SMTP traffic. How much does a Sandvine Box cost?
Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Skype
| reply to paco
said by paco :funchords stated: "The users on those forums are not informed." Wow !!!!! What a blanket statement !!! I'd say that it is you who are uninformed about the users at the Comcast forums  Sorry.
"The users on those forums are not anywhere as nearly informed as they are here at BBR."
I've been here at BBR for a long time, and I've been a Comcast customer for a long time, too -- and yes, I've been to the forums.
Blanket statement -- okay, but I've seen both blankets. So what's wrong with that?
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
~ Keeper of the D-Link FAQ ~ Did you Search? ~ More features, Free! Join BBR! ~ |
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
2 edits | reply to hobgoblin
System glitch double post. How rare. |
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to hobgoblin
said by hobgoblin :How much does a Sandvine Box cost? How much does it cost to add port 25 to an ACL?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to Morty
said by Morty :Sandvine said it has signed a contract with a Tier 1 U.S. service provider to supply its 10 Gbps Policy Traffic Switch platform. Comcast is not a Tier 1 provider. In fact, the there are only two Tier 1's on that possible list, Vz and ATT. My hunch is with ATT. That would be worrisome. Not that it, necessarily would involve me directly; the tier 1 AT&T backbone is part of AT&T Worldnet services, and my routing generally doesn't touch that backbone:
05/13/07 23:19:05 Slow traceroute 74.208.13.161
Trace 74.208.13.161 ...
192.168.102.1 RTT: 1ms TTL:170 (chihiro.aosake.net ok)
192.168.0.1 RTT: 2ms TTL:170 (suzuka.aosake.net ok)
69.105.119.254 RTT: 10ms TTL:170 (adsl-69-105-119-254.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net ok)
64.164.97.67 RTT: 11ms TTL:170 (dist2-vlan50.pltn13.pbi.net ok)
151.164.93.239 RTT: 15ms TTL:170 (No rDNS)
151.164.94.47 RTT: 13ms TTL:170 (ex2-p12-0.eqsjca.sbcglobal.net ok)
151.164.248.250 RTT: 11ms TTL:170 (as174.eqsjca.sbcglobal.net ok)
154.54.6.85 RTT: 12ms TTL:170 (t3-1.mpd01.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com probable bogus rDNS: No DNS)
154.54.6.81 RTT: 12ms TTL:170 (v3490.mpd01.sjc01.atlas.cogentco.com probable bogus rDNS: No DNS)
154.54.2.53 RTT: 59ms TTL:170 (t7-1.mpd02.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com probable bogus rDNS: No DNS)
154.54.6.41 RTT: 61ms TTL:170 (t2-2.mpd01.mci01.atlas.cogentco.com probable bogus rDNS: No DNS)
154.54.2.217 RTT: 61ms TTL:170 (g11-0-0.core01.mci01.atlas.cogentco.com probable bogus rDNS: No DNS)
66.28.6.238 RTT: 60ms TTL:170 (g0-2.na21.b005948-0.mci01.atlas.cogentco.com probable bogus rDNS: No DNS)
38.112.2.194 RTT: 70ms TTL:170 (schlund-partner.demarc.cogentco.com probable bogus rDNS: No DNS)
74.208.1.65 RTT: 60ms TTL:170 (te-1-1.bb-a.slr.lxa.us.oneandone.net ok)
74.208.1.102 RTT: 60ms TTL:170 (te-1-2.gw-distp-b.slr.lxa.oneandone.net ok)
74.208.1.168 RTT: 62ms TTL:170 (ae-1.gw-prtr-r5-b.slr.lxa.oneandone.net ok)
74.208.13.161 RTT: 78ms TTL: 51 (server.elitebusinesschoice.com ok)
05/13/07 23:17:54 Slow traceroute 68.34.175.134
Trace 68.34.175.134 ...
192.168.102.1 RTT: 1ms TTL:170 (chihiro.aosake.net ok)
192.168.0.1 RTT: 3ms TTL:170 (suzuka.aosake.net ok)
69.105.119.254 RTT: 11ms TTL:170 (adsl-69-105-119-254.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net ok)
64.164.97.66 RTT: 11ms TTL:170 (dist1-vlan50.pltn13.pbi.net ok)
151.164.93.231 RTT: 11ms TTL:170 (bb1-g15-0.pltnca.sbcglobal.net ok)
151.164.191.201 RTT: 12ms TTL:170 (ex1-p9-0.eqsjca.sbcglobal.net ok)
12.122.79.101 RTT: 15ms TTL:170 (gar7.sffca.ip.att.net fraudulent rDNS)
12.122.85.142 RTT: 88ms TTL:170 (tbr2033101.sffca.ip.att.net probable bogus rDNS: No DNS)
12.122.10.41 RTT: 88ms TTL:170 (tbr1.sl9mo.ip.att.net fraudulent rDNS)
12.122.10.29 RTT: 87ms TTL:170 (tbr1.wswdc.ip.att.net fraudulent rDNS)
12.122.2.86 RTT: 84ms TTL:170 (tbr2.phlpa.ip.att.net fraudulent rDNS)
12.123.137.213 RTT: 81ms TTL:170 (gar3.phlpa.ip.att.net fraudulent rDNS)
12.118.114.14 RTT: 105ms TTL:170 (No rDNS)
68.86.211.9 RTT: 124ms TTL:170 (te-7-1-ar01.audubon.nj.panjde.comcast.net ok)
68.86.208.26 RTT: 115ms TTL:170 (po-10-ar01.wallingford.pa.panjde.comcast.net ok)
68.86.211.146 RTT: 120ms TTL:170 (po-92-ur01.claymont.de.panjde.comcast.net ok)
68.86.209.98 RTT: 86ms TTL:170 (po-10-ur01.norristown.pa.panjde.comcast.net ok)
68.86.209.102 RTT: 87ms TTL:170 (po-10-ur02.norristown.pa.panjde.comcast.net ok)
68.86.209.169 RTT: 122ms TTL:170 (po-90-ur01.plymouthmtng.pa.panjde.comcast.net ok)
* * * failed
68.34.175.134 RTT: 98ms TTL:109 (c-68-34-175-134.hsd1.pa.comcast.net ok)
This bids fair to become a "Net Neutrality" issue. I can see big money in Hollywood, and political pressure applied to use Sandvine (and Ellacoya) to eliminate the freewheeling nature of the Internet.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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tdumaine
join:2004-03-14
Redmond, WA | Wheres the line when it becomes illegal? If i alter packets going to someones computer, im doing so unauthorized and am in trouble, am i not? |
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| said by tdumaine :Wheres the line when it becomes illegal? AFAIK, there is no such line under the law, just an ages old Internet tradition codified in the RFCs. To the extent that the RFCs amount to anything akin to a code.
If i alter packets going to someones computer, im doing so unauthorized and am in trouble, am i not?
Probably in violation of one, or another RFC, but not of any law that I am aware of. I am pretty sure that this service would not be offered if it was illegal to alter packets in transit.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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comtec5
join:2006-02-06
Glen Burnie, MD | reply to funchords
we do indeed use sanvines on each cmts |
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Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state
3 edits | said by comtec5 :we do indeed use sanvines on each cmts While you are correct that sandvine is in use and has been for quite some time, it is not used "on" a CMTS. Sandvine works hand in hand with the PacketCable protocol and acts as an application gateway.
This thread is going to garner hate towards sandvine because everyone is basing one users experiences to how things will always work and assuming Sandvine is something installed specifically to block/throttle p2p...that is not the case as there FAR CHEAPER solutions to that issue, many already built into current CMTS's which would negate the need of ever having a Sandvine box and policy server.
Sandvine is an integral application used by quite a few providers that HELPS with bandwidth for P2P, gaming, VOIP, etc. Are there cases where it will cause you to get lower P2P speeds, yes, but there are also cases where it will help with your general latency and will IMPROVE your p2p download speeds.
Sandvine even has a profile for Xbox Live clients (whether this is in use widespread is not known to me, but I know it was used at one point in my area)
Sandvines use at Comcast is not primarily as a P2P blocker, anyone who tells you that is lying or uninformed.
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Forum Posts:7500 |
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Sadimitsu
join:2005-06-07
Pittsburg, CA
3 edits | It's sure blocking me! I didn't notice it untill yesterday but I can't seed anything on bittorrent now. My ratios are horrible and now I will be banned etc etc. It's not even a slow upload, I really can't seed torrents AT ALL. I get a fat 0 kB/s. I've been a loyal comcast customer for years now, hell even before comcast owned the place and it was @home. I've put up with downtime and crappy service for a very very long time but one good thing i could always say was "When it works it works good" now I can't even say that anymore. I didn't get the higher upload speeds for nothing, I'm paying all this extra money and now I can't even freaking use my upload speed. Someone please tell me, what the hell is my upload for if I can't send anything to people because comcast is blocking me?
Bittorrent is really useless now, i'm sure everyone knows that BT DL speed is connected to your upload speed. If you're not uploading you won't DL anything at a decent speed. Thanks a lot comcast
This is beyond bullshit |
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CableConvert
Premium
join:2003-12-05
Atlanta, GA
| reply to funchords
FYI...Azureus Wiki lists Comcast as blocking seeding
»www.azureuswiki.com/index.php/Ba···_America |
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Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| reply to funchords
Intriguing; has this technology been deployed across all markets? I ask this because I seed at the upstream cap all the time, a number of private trackers I use simply require it, so it's become force-of-habit.
I guess the question becomes whether using traffic prioritization software really is an issue, so long as the behavior is transparent to the user. To be honest, what's ironic about the whole thing is that if this really has been deployed for so long, it's been an amazingly well-guarded secret. The question then becomes, is it really doing anything if nobody has noticed it this long?
Qualitative/subjective analysis aside, I think this really is a non-issue so long as it doesn't adversely affect the end result. I'm pretty pleased overall with latency, especially in online games, and, to be honest, having Comcast do some of the network prioritization for latency-critical protocols makes sense; it's less CPU-load for my m0n0wall.
--
"Some people never see the light till it shines thru bullet holes." -Bruce Cockburn
I'm testing Gmail's spam filters: Broadbandreports1@gmail.com
Spam: 12900+ messages currently using 406 MB. |
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Sadimitsu
join:2005-06-07
Pittsburg, CA | Believe me buddy its damn noticible, and like you i'm part of sites that demand I upload in return or else I face being banned which is what will happen now that comcast has decided to screw people over. Again. |
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billygoat
@secureix.com
| Hey sad, Why don't you try getting the premium VPN account from secureix.com My upload speeds have remain at the max since I signed up. I, like you, sat at that fat 0 before. 9.95 extra a month to me is worth it. They also have a few day trial for you to test it first. |
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kcisobderf
join:2002-12-29
Ann Arbor, MI
| reply to funchords
For what it's worth, I'm in Ann Arbor, MI, and I can D/L and seed torrents. I don't do much other than apps and texts, but I did make a 1+ ratio on a 12GB file last week. I use uTorrent 1.6.1.
My question is on a different aspect, possibly involving the traffic shaping debate. On that 12GB file, I had upwards of 80 peers, in a swarm of 400 or so. I didn't do much upload over 40kB/s, but other activities, like browsing were painfully slow. I have a 100/1000 card in a PCI slot and network utilization was very low. Is it a matter of my cable "modem", local cable loop, or the alleged Sandvine P2P throttling?
Thanks for any ideas! |
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Sadimitsu
join:2005-06-07
Pittsburg, CA | reply to billygoat
Thanks a lot for your suggestion, I will try it out. |
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Obliteration
Premium
join:2005-09-18
Somewhere
4 edits | reply to funchords
Yep, it has been sucking badly lately. I was able to upload 20MB in almost 2 hrs which is horrible. The screenshot is just above to show it. Never had this probably till recently as well.(I try to be nice and only use it for anime releases from Japan but apparently Comcast doesn't like that so barely noticed it)
I'm looking at getting banned from the torrent pretty soon at this rate since anything under .5 is considered pretty bad by most torrents sites .06 isn't going to cut it. If this isn't fixed by Saturday morning, I'm calling Comcast to cancel all their services and switch to AT&T now that they decided to serve DSL here.
$34.99 a month is actually cheaper and only downside is that there is no boost. Up side is no throttling and cheaper.
Signals are great, everything is fine. Pretty sure it is this new Comcast filter as there has been no other variable changes.
EDIT: Worked for a while at full speed before resetting to zero.
I'm also attaching a screen shot of that.(I had it limited at that amount on that second torrent screen shot)
--
The best signature out there. |
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sddsd
@ey.com | The trick for BT is to turn on encryption, that's the
only way I can seed. |
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sortofageek
Premium,Mod
join:2001-08-19
Valhalla Dr
clubs:
 ·Comcast
Host:
Team Helix
Distributed Comput..
Linksys
Comcast HSI
Comcast Cable TV
| reply to funchords
See also ---> »[Connectivity] Comcast appears to be limiting bittorrent seeding
--
Join Team Helix * I am praying for these friends . |
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