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| | Stick to overcharging for video You obviously can't do telephony right  | |
|   ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Re: Stick to overcharging for video 9-1-1 issues aren't limited to Comcast. Many VOIP providers have had issues including Vonage. | |
| |  NPGMBR
join:2001-03-28
Arlington, VA | Re: Stick to overcharging for video True but I agree with what you said earlier. If its not reliable then they should not be able to call it 911. | |
| | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Stick to overcharging for video so what do you call 9-1-1 then? 8-1-1??  | |
| | | | | | Re: Stick to overcharging for video 8-1-1 is the national call before you dig network. | |
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| | Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | said by NPGMBR:If its not reliable then they should not be able to call it 911. Who is "they"? What is "it"?
Do you understand that you're talking about a phone number? It's a phone number, not the name of a minor deity. There is no accreditation for the service. It's not your right to have it. It's certainly not a valid excuse not to have a second number to call!
Instead of bickering about alleged names, why don't you learn CPR? | |
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| | | What the problem really is that they are n00bs when it comes to telephony. The fly by night VOIP co's, Comcast, etc. They don't have the know how, the experience when it comes to 9-1-1 and other things that are established with POTS. | |
| | |  KoolMoeAw ManPremium
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD | Re: Stick to overcharging for video The problem with that is, when you order FIOS, VZ tears out POTS copper. Then they have a disclaimer somewhere that says 911 may not be reliable over their FIOS service.
WTF?
Then why did you rip out my copper?
I still have a copper line as I have DSL service through a third-party, so they couldn't take it down (though surely they would have if I didn't make that clear). But it's a dry loop, so no dialtone. So our 911 is apparently no longer reliable due to the FIOS phone service we have, which was certainly not made clear during the ordering process.
Considering it's apparent VZ will eventually force every into FIOS someday, I sure hope they get this worked out - and perhaps the state gov'ts need to get involved NOW.
KM
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Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential | |
| | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | Re: Stick to overcharging for video You can request they not remove your copper wiring on installation and they won't.. good FUD though. | |
| | | | | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Re: Stick to overcharging for video That is not true. When I called about FiOS, I was not given that option unless I had a 2nd phone line (which they would leave copper) or the primary line had a non-Verizon local provider. | |
| | | | | |  RobIn Deo speramus, God Bless the USAPremium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:2 | Re: Stick to overcharging for video said by ColorBASIC:That is not true. When I called about FiOS, I was not given that option unless I had a 2nd phone line (which they would leave copper) or the primary line had a non-Verizon local provider. What if you order a 2nd line before you have FiOS installed so they leave the copper.. then cancel the 2nd line a few months later?
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YourIP.US - It's Your IP .. and more!
rr.cx - Personal Site.. coming soon. | |
| | | | | | | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Re: Stick to overcharging for video said by Rob:said by ColorBASIC:That is not true. When I called about FiOS, I was not given that option unless I had a 2nd phone line (which they would leave copper) or the primary line had a non-Verizon local provider. What if you order a 2nd line before you have FiOS installed so they leave the copper.. then cancel the 2nd line a few months later? I dunno...I would ASSUME they wouldn't pull it, but just disconnect it like they 'used to'. | |
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| | | | | kenyg
join:2001-02-09
Hatboro, PA | I got fios last week and still have my copper. I asked them to leave it.
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aye aye captain! | |
| | | | | | | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
1 edit | Re: Stick to overcharging for video said by kenyg:I got fios last week and still have my copper. I asked them to leave it. I guess then it's who you talk to. The two (sales) people I spoke with about it were emphatic about it me not being able to keep POTS while getting FiOS for HSI and TV. I've heard since that even when sales people say no, you ask the installer on site to leave it and they do. I didn't want to take the chance should TWC ever suck and I want to go back to DSL.
I do know neither of the two neighbors I know who are trying to go back to cheaper DSL are having any luck getting their copper back. Their choice is now TWC-RR or FiOS for HSI...which IMO is fine but they are interested in the $15/mo DSL deals our local DSL resellers like DSL Extreme often have. | |
| | | | | | | | kenyg
join:2001-02-09
Hatboro, PA | Re: Stick to overcharging for video I talked to the installer about leaving it. Young bright kid - seemed to be happy for one less thing to do.
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aye aye captain! | |
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| | | | | | said by Ahrenl:You can request they not remove your copper wiring on installation and they won't.. good FUD though. I think KoolMoe was trying to get approval from people to boost his self-esteem. That post was 100% fact free.
For you KoolMoe, »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fios#Telephone. | |
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1 edit | said by KoolMoe:The problem with that is, when you order FIOS, VZ tears out POTS copper. Then they have a disclaimer somewhere that says 911 may not be reliable over their FIOS service. WTF? Then why did you rip out my copper? I still have a copper line as I have DSL service through a third-party, so they couldn't take it down (though surely they would have if I didn't make that clear). But it's a dry loop, so no dialtone. So our 911 is apparently no longer reliable due to the FIOS phone service we have, which was certainly not made clear during the ordering process. Considering it's apparent VZ will eventually force every into FIOS someday, I sure hope they get this worked out - and perhaps the state gov'ts need to get involved NOW. KM Your signature says "Don't Lie", but that exactly what you just did. Either that or you're just talking telphony out of your as..lack of knowledge. FIOS phone isn't voice over IP. It works the same as traditional phone service except voice is digital instead of analog, and no power is being provided from the CO. Verizon FIOS phone and Voicewing are not the same thing. Somehow I doubt you have Verizon, and you picked a spot to come out bashing. | |
| | | | | KoolMoeAw ManPremium
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD | Re: Stick to overcharging for video Maybe my 'WTF' brought out the venom. Jeez...
I have FIOS TV and Phone, no internet. If the fiber is just as reliable as POTS, good! And happy to be corrected.
However, in looking at the small print in one of the many mailings they've sent, they certainly said something about 911 service not being guaranteed. Maybe it was in reference to their Voicewing service - could be. Maybe it was in reference to the ONT and power. I didn't dig too deep, but was somewhat put-off when I read it.
I doubt I still have the letter (it was a pricing sheet, small print at the bottom) but will take a look.
Additionally, in my direct experience, the installers WERE going to tear down the copper - saying it was 'standard procedure' - had I not countered that it was carrying a third-party DSL service. So maybe in some areas they're not doing it, but here, they are.
One of my immediate neighbors just got FIOS installed and he has no more phone copper running to his house. Fairly, he probably didn't ask them to leave it.
It's wonderful that you have such a high opinion of what you believe to be facts. Don't let that get in the way of any actual discussion though...
KM
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Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential | |
| | | | | | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Re: Stick to overcharging for video During the big power outage back east a while ago I remember seeing a lot of posts complaining about FiOS battery life. | |
| | | | | | KoolMoeAw ManPremium
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD | I found the letter, thanks to my sloppiness, and I interpreted it incorrectly. I'd scan it, but easier to type relevant part:
"Limited time offer for new FIOS Internet Customers...
Does not support video or internet-based services such as voice-over-IP (or VOIP 911)."
So no support of VOIP or VOIP 911. I misinterpreted to mean the FIOS product was VOIP-like, I guess.
And I understand the latter part. I think the first part, no VOIP at all, is kinda odd and...aggressive. Another reason for me to stick with SE for DSL, for a bit anyway, to run Sunrocket's service over.
Not to sidetrack, but no 'video' support? What's that mean?
This was found on the back of a recent "You have TV FIOS, why not get FIOS internet?" mailing (which I received a second of a week after the first).
KM
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Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential | |
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| | |  Rattler
join:2001-04-13
Havertown, PA | said by KoolMoe:The problem with that is, when you order FIOS, VZ tears out POTS copper. Then they have a disclaimer somewhere that says 911 may not be reliable over their FIOS service. If I'm not mistaken, that caveat applies to when the ONT is running off the BBU during a power failure. I believe it has about an 8 hour reserve. Once the battery goes dead, then you're without phone service and have no 9-1-1. Of course, it's those times when you would probably need 9-1-1 more than under normal conditions.
We added a 750W UPS in front of my daughter's FiOS system PSU/BBU. They had an 18 hour power failure a while ago and never lost phone service. We're not sure if the UPS ever shut down since the power came back on in the early morning hours, after they'd been asleep for about 8 or 9 hours (it was still up when they went to bed). They also never lost internet (until the 'puter's UPS shut down after about a half hour).
So, there are some things you can do to mitigate the loss of phone service due to a power failure.
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Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons | |
| | | | |  dennismurphyPut me on hold? I'll put YOU on holdPremium
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ
 ·Verizon FiOS
 ·Optimum Online
| Re: Stick to overcharging for video said by Rattler:said by KoolMoe:The problem with that is, when you order FIOS, VZ tears out POTS copper. Then they have a disclaimer somewhere that says 911 may not be reliable over their FIOS service. If I'm not mistaken, that caveat applies to when the ONT is running off the BBU during a power failure. I believe it has about an 8 hour reserve. Once the battery goes dead, then you're without phone service and have no 9-1-1. Of course, it's those times when you would probably need 9-1-1 more than under normal conditions. We added a 750W UPS in front of my daughter's FiOS system PSU/BBU. They had an 18 hour power failure a while ago and never lost phone service. We're not sure if the UPS ever shut down since the power came back on in the early morning hours, after they'd been asleep for about 8 or 9 hours (it was still up when they went to bed). They also never lost internet (until the 'puter's UPS shut down after about a half hour). So, there are some things you can do to mitigate the loss of phone service due to a power failure. Keep in mind that with a FiOS installation, after the battery is 'mostly' exhausted, the FiOS equipment in the house will shut down.
There IS, however, a button on the battery unit labeled "Emergency". At shutdown time, a small reserve is left in the battery -- by pressing the Emergency button, the battery unit will power back up and let you use that last bit of juice --- it's rumored to be about an hours' worth -- that's MORE than enough time to call 911.
So, with all the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt) that gets flung around about FiOS, nobody actually checks. Verizon's got you covered. Even if you're in an extended power outage (very very rare around here, every 30 years maybe?) and you need to make that emergency call -- the battery unit's got enough reserve for it. | |
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| | | | | I got my vonage by mail and installed it myself. There was no tearing out of any copper. i simply opened the user side of the interface, unplugged the modular plug connecting the house copper to the outside world (sprint) and then taped the modular plug with electrical tape and left a note in the box that this house was now on vonage and that this was not to be reconnected. Then I put a patch cord between the vonage router and a wall jack and have phone service throughout the house. There is no need to take out any copper. | |
| | | | | laf4
join:2004-09-30
La Verne, CA | Re: Stick to overcharging for video Vonage and FIOS are completely different services.
One (FIOS) changes the physical medium that carries your voice, the other (Vonage and VOIP) only changes the way your voice is carried. | |
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| | | | | To clarify the whole "my copper is still in place" stuff, here's the deal:
Whether or not your copper drop is still in place means absolutely nothing. Once Verizon's database says that an address has been converted to FIOS, NO CUSTOMER SERVICE REPRESENTATIVE can place an order to install copper phone service. It has nothing to do with whether the drop is still there, Verizon will simply not take an order to activate it. ONLY a supervisor can override that and there has to be extreme circumstances for it. Furthermore, even with a supervisor override the service will not be instantaneously turned on, hence if you have a 911 emergency, its not like the copper that was left in place will do you any good at that moment. The only way to have copper phone service after FiOS is installed is either a)you had service with a different provider, b)you order new service with a different provider, and in this case it makes no difference whether the copper loop was removed or not, if it was removed and you order service with a different provider, Verizon will simply place a new copper loop and bill the provider for the install. c)The last way to get copper phone service is when all the ONT ports for POTS service are exhausted. For example let's say you have a 611 ONT with 4 lines on it and you decide to add a 5th line, if there are already existing copper facilities Verizon will put just that 5th line for phone service only on copper rather than install a 2nd ont for it.
Finally, FIOS 911 is the same as copper 911, with the exception that in the event of a power outage, the backup battery is only good for 4-8 hours. If your power outages are that long (most are not) and you have regular power outages, then perhaps a generator might be a good investment for you.
Bottomline also is that if Cable companies, VOIP companies, or even wireless companies want to market their product as a replacement to POTS, then the consumer is correct in assuming that it works like POTS regardless of what the fine print says. | |
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| | Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | said by ninjatutle:What the problem really is that they are n00bs when it comes to telephony. The fly by night VOIP co's, Comcast, etc. They don't have the know how, the experience when it comes to 9-1-1 and other things that are established with POTS. Care to justify that claim? Precisely what company are you accusing of being a "fly by night VOIP"?
Seems to me that if they have the know-how and experience to make 11+ digit calls go through, they have enough to handle just three. And just how does POTS figure into a modern E911 call center? Do you really think that they're rooms full of separate, single-line phones, ringing willy-nilly? Get real! | |
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1 edit | It is the new trend, cablecos want to be telcos, telcos want to be cablecos, munis want to be ISPs, ISPs want to be content providers, RIAA, MPAA and AT&T want to be FBI, FBI wants to be in charge of the ISPs.
Edit: Forgot politicians want to be... | |
| |  MrMoodyFree range slavePremium
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC | Re: Stick to overcharging for video ROFL, I think you hit it on the head! | |
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| | | | | | | Re: And, so does VZ  Priceless. | |
| | | Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | "Officials at the 911 center quickly realized there was a problem and called Verizon for a remedy, according to Audrey Rychalsky, operations manager at 911."
I wonder how they called Verizon, with no phone service and all? Cellphone? Skype? LOLOLOL | |
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